2015 US Nationals Senior Ladies FS Jan 24

[kwanatic]

Me too about Karen. I also found the skating and skating order of Karen right after Mirai to be quite an instance of juxtaposition; the past and the future before our very eyes.

Very true. I hope Karen is able to make it through puberty better than Mirai did though...no shade at Mirai...just the truth...

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I am clearly in the minority, but I thought her jumps were clean tonight. Or at least clean enough for a benefit of a doubt.

They were. The jumps in slow-mo looked fine and right at 1/4 or better. The only thing I question is not giving her "!". Otherwise the technical score is right and can be improved by hitting her levels on spins and a bit cleaner landings on jumps like the 3F.

 

[tulosai]

I'm with you both.

Yup in real time they looked clean to me also. I have not reviewed in slow mo though.

 

[Mrs. P]

FWIW, Ashley has received ! all season long. She hasn't gotten (e) since last season. The goal is not to get ! but at least it's not the (e), which is an automatic BV deduction.

 

[TwinnerA]

Of course, Gracie took a selfie with Ashley and Karen after the press conference.

 

[RABID]

Polina's body needs to channel Carolina Kostner's skating and her attitude needs to channel Katerina Witt's edge but more importantly she needs to break out of her ingenue character or whatever it is, double quick, before next season.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Congratulations Ashley!!!!

Her interview afterwards said it. SOOO many haters, so many critics.... people saying she's old, people saying she can't land a 3-3, people saying she has no shot at medaling at Worlds. She freaking laid it down, and I couldn't be more proud of her.

Some odd things in the judging - kudos to the judge who gave Wagner a 7.50 for transitions but 10.00 for execution, as that's kinda how I felt about it... a lot of breaks - but it's refreshing to see someone take the time to interpret the music.

PCS gap of the day/all time though: Nagasu got a 4.25 and an 8.00 for PE -- I don't think I've ever seen a PCS margin that wide. 4.25 is kinda harsh given that she still didn't give up after the fall, but I hope she's okay.

Also, special mention has to go to Karen Chen for her stellar program. I thought she should have beat Gold in the FS, but I'm glad Polina wasn't held up over her. Gold had an okay skate, but after Wagner's performance that would have been hard for anyone to follow. But hopefully this builds her confidence going into Worlds. That was a solid silver, and her 3-3 was wonderful.

I reallllly hope Wagner brings this to Worlds. A podium of Radionova (the best technician) and Tukt and Wagner - two skaters who everyone counted out but came back with a vengeance - would be a dream podium.

 

[aa456]

I am clearly in the minority, but I thought her jumps were clean tonight. Or at least clean enough for a benefit of a doubt.

the rotation looked cleaned to me too. the edge on the lutzes, not so much.

 

[cl2]

When I said that I meant her goes were too high. Improper scoring 9/10 always comes from goe.

Is that so? I find it hard to be convinced by your grand and sweeping statement. Please show your evidence, cite the relevant protocols and IJS rules, complete with proper cross referencing to replays and any other relevant data. I'd love to see a convincing argument. I'm waiting patiently...

Well i think its been shown very clearly what the mechanisms are for over scoring in COP:
1) ignoring mandatory deductions: edges, urs, etc.
2) inflating goe: keeping negatives from being too negative and boosting positives through the roof.
3) pcs in a "corridor": because pcs is not used to judge the program the skater skates, but the reputation of the skater and the body of work.

Judges and callers use all three of these to get the results they want.

I do not deny that the 3 things you described do happen, because I see the bits of evidence here and there, especially on (1). But how often does it happen? Sometimes? Often? Almost always? The original claim is very specific and bold in its proclaimed frequency. I'm just curious to know if that claim can be backed up with actual statistics and catalogued evidence.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

the rotation looked cleaned to me too. the edge on the lutzes, not so much.

Agreed. Any international tech caller would have called it a "!" and from the replays, an "e" wouldn't have been out of line either. Still, so amazing to see her attempt that even.

I agree that she was given benefit of the doubt, and an Amano might have called it <. Still, no denying the program was "spectacular spectacular", though!

 

[Krunchii]

the rotation looked cleaned to me too. the edge on the lutzes, not so much.

I agree, with the jumps, the only problem I had was with the Lutz edge, it was unclear, the rotations looked good to me in slow-mo and I'm so so impressed

 

[Poodlepal]

The reason Ashley did so well, in my opinion, is because she was herself and wasn't trying to be some delicate flower ballerina. She is one tough cookie, and if she's a showgirl or a mad ballerina, she seems much more at home. What a shame she wasted her Olympic season trying to be a discordant Juliet!

Gracie, on the other hand, shows little personality at all. She's like Generic Figure Skating Girl. Even a clean skate wouldn't have made much impression with that program.

Out of curiosity, how are her and Ashley's personalities so different? They look the same, talk with the same young suburban accent, and don't skate that differently (at least not usually). They've both been accused of saying stupid things about their international competitors. What is this personality trait that separates them?

 

[aa456]

Agreed. Any international tech caller would have called it a "!" and from the replays, an "e" wouldn't have been out of line either. Still, so amazing to see her attempt that even.

I agree that she was given benefit of the doubt, and an Amano might have called it <. Still, no denying the program was "spectacular spectacular", though!

absolutely. that was a great performance. One of the best I've seen at US nationals in recent years. I hope Ashley continues to work on her jumps and spins. I really want to see her challenge Elena and Liza for the gold at worlds. IMO she has the best presentation of the three.

 

[Alba]

I am clearly in the minority, but I thought her jumps were clean tonight. Or at least clean enough for a benefit of a doubt.

I thought they were ok too. The only question is the Lutz for me.

Some odd things in the judging - kudos to the judge who gave Wagner a 7.50 for transitions but 10.00 for execution, as that's kinda how I felt about it... a lot of breaks - but it's refreshing to see someone take the time to interpret the music.

I agree. She deserved a 10 for the performance. On the other hand I strongly disagree with the 9s she got not only on the transitions but on SS too.

 

[Mrs. P]

Just watched Mariah Bell and so thrilled for her! She moved up six places to finish sixth overall! That's seven places up from her 13th place finish last season.

 

[zschultz1986]

I do not deny that the 3 things you described do happen, because I see the bits of evidence here and there, especially on (1). But how often does it happen? Sometimes? Often? Almost always? The original claim is very specific and bold in its proclaimed frequency. I'm just curious to know if that claim can be backed up with actual statistics and catalogued evidence.

Well, #3 happens ALWAYS. The corridor may rise or fall depending on where you're at, who you are, or how you've been skating, among other factors, but PCS as is, isn't used correctly, imo.

1 and 2 are kinda used in tandem. If you pull on all the levers a little. The "cheating " is less obvious and is the same as pulling hard on one lever.

Again, it depends on the event and the skater.

 

[makaihime]

I'm so proud of Ashley. She upped her technical content, she (kinda) fixed her UR's, she landed everything, and brought down the house with 2 clean programs

Although someone should give a Gold medal to the USFSA after this nationals because the scores they've been handing out are just :agree:

 

[amc987]

I'm so pleased for Ashley! As far as I could see, she made the rotation on both 3-3s. The "lutz" edge is more suspect and I imagine an international technical panel wouldn't be so forgiving. But that's easily fixed- just go for 2 3Fs instead of 2 3Lzs and she can take the ! on the Lz. This is by far the best she's skated in her 3 titles. I think her score was probably about 8-9 points too high, but she'd probably be around 140 if she duplicated this skate in front of an international panel. Worlds just got a whole lot more interesting.

Gracie was also very good. I think this is the best FS I've seen her do this season. I still don't like Phantom for her, or the lyrics, but her elements were strong and she fought hard to land 6 clean triples. She is a very deserving silver medalist. Again, her score is 8-10 points too high. Hopefully she can skate well at Worlds too.

I thought Karen Chen was great. She is so sure of herself for someone so young. I think she got the benefit of the doubt on her 3Z-3T (the 3T looked < to me) and she lacks maturity, but the rest of her jumps, her speed, and her spins were admirable.

Polina will get the 3rd spot for Worlds. She also did one of her better FSes this season. I thought her 3Z-3T was > and she was on the wrong edge on the 3F. She was solid elsewhere other than the 2nd 3Lz.

Overall a great competition. Congrats to all the ladies!

 

[StitchMonkey]

Just watched Mariah Bell and so thrilled for her! She moved up six places to finish sixth overall! That's seven places up from her 13th place finish last season.

Let's hear it for team KoRo having two girls in the top ten their first year coaching at ladies senior nationals!

 

[Meoima]

Agreed. Any international tech caller would have called it a "!" and from the replays, an "e" wouldn't have been out of line either. Still, so amazing to see her attempt that even.
I agree that she was given benefit of the doubt, and an Amano might have called it <. Still, no denying the program was "spectacular spectacular", though!

Let's play a game. What if Japanese tech panel were at US nationals lol. I am sure they even downgrade Gracie's quite clean jumps.