Slow Motion Jump Editing (AKA: Sam's Jump-a-ma-tron)

[Interspectator]

Elizaveta's Jumps are so amazing. And so is the video. :thumbsup:

 

[sabinfire]

Another reason to watermark them.

This doesn't bother me. The only odd thing about this is how even the skaters themselves have to go search YouTube to find skating footage. Does the USFSA not have any video footage of their own, even of U.S. Nationals? I'm not just picking on the USA here... I've had requests from skaters from other countries to provide them videos of their programs from 4CC, for example (this happened after I yanked most of the videos off my YouTube channel while re-designing it)...

Elizaveta's Jumps are so amazing. And so is the video. :thumbsup:

Thanks! They are monster jumps! I know I probably need to add a bit more variety in the skaters I choose, but Worlds is so close, and there are only so many skaters I can stare at in a video editing program for hours...

 

[StitchMonkey]

I did not think it would bother you, but I do think it is neat to see. It is subtle enough no one is going to be distracted by it, but it gave me a silly warm fuzzy feeling to see because i knew to look for it. I also thought you might like that he used your footage for Josh as I know you are a fan.

I suspect USFSA says "go get IceNetwork" which as i understand is not really intended to be able to edit and download the same. They think we will get it if the wear us down. The problem is everytime it comes up, I am watching for when fan reaction is "you should get Ice Network! is is so good, and has so much and i can't rave about it enough!" rather than the more typical somewhat tepid "well it exists" reaction we usually see.

The thing is USFSA should *want* their skaters to have access to stuff like that. Frankly I think your a-ma-patron videos could be useful to skaters and coaches, I would think they would want them to be able to study their performances that intently.

That is actually pretty sad that some skaters had to contact you to try to get their performances. They really should have that. It would not cost the organizers *that* much to get a cheap USB stick for each skater and load up their footage on it and mail it to the. Even if it means raising the ticket price $1.00, skaters really should have this and the sport should *want* them to have it.

 

[sabinfire]

I did not think it would bother you, but I do think it is neat to see. It is subtle enough no one is going to be distracted by it, but it gave me a silly warm fuzzy feeling to see because i knew to look for it. I also thought you might like that he used your footage for Josh as I know you are a fan.

Thanks for pointing it out! I do enjoy seeing my captures used for things like this. I often try to track down where a lot of my views are coming from on YouTube, since these silly things interest me. For the past week or so, I've had a couple thousand views originating from Naver.com (a South Korean website), from an embedded video on my channel. Unfortunately, YouTube analytics aren't always very precise in their details. Based on the top two videos on my channel racking up the most recent views over the past 7 days ( Liza FS from Euros B.ESP2 @ about 33k total views, & Tano'marathon-a-matron ), I'm guessing maybe it's the 'tano video? Either way, I don't understand why either of these videos would be embedded on a South Korean website and receiving thousands of views right now -- part of my curiosity was to find out exactly where it was posted and what the context of providing the link was.

The thing is USFSA should *want* their skaters to have access to stuff like that. Frankly I think your a-ma-patron videos could be useful to skaters and coaches, I would think they would want them to be able to study their performances that intently.

That is actually pretty sad that some skaters had to contact you to try to get their performances. They really should have that. It would not cost the organizers *that* much to get a cheap USB stick for each skater and load up their footage on it and mail it to the. Even if it means raising the ticket price $1.00, skaters really should have this and the sport should *want* them to have it.

That's a great point. In most sports -- say the NHL for example -- the coaching staff usually goes back through video footage with the team after every game, to show what they did right/wrong, highlight what they can improve, etc. I'm sure they use slow-motion and close-up replays -- not just of that particular player/team, but of their competition too. They probably have access to camera angles that even the fans don't have.

I'd be surprised if this wasn't happening in skating to some extent...

For anyone's curiosity, here is one message I received a few weeks ago (details removed since I haven't asked their permission to post, but I don't think they would mind):

I am [name redacted], the elder sister of a [location redacted] single men skater [name redacted]. He competes in FCC 2015 and made his debut to the final for the first time! I think he has approached you for the videos. In fact, we appreciate your updates and I understand there might be copyright problem so you turned the videos into private. To our family, we really hope to have [name redacted] SP and LP videos for our own record.

Could you please do us a favor and send us [name redacted] two programs? I am sure you will understand how excited we were since there's no standard ice rink in [location redacted] yet his performance (especially SP with [...] music choreographed by me ) impresses some of the audience and even coaches we didn't know!

I look forward to your reply! If possible, our email address is [email redacted]. Feel free to follow us on FB as well! We are trying our best to promote figure skating in [location redacted] although it is just a small city!

[facebook link]

Best
[name redacted]

 

[UnsaneLily87]

I did not think it would bother you, but I do think it is neat to see. It is subtle enough no one is going to be distracted by it, but it gave me a silly warm fuzzy feeling to see because i knew to look for it. I also thought you might like that he used your footage for Josh as I know you are a fan.

I suspect USFSA says "go get IceNetwork" which as i understand is not really intended to be able to edit and download the same. They think we will get it if the wear us down. The problem is everytime it comes up, I am watching for when fan reaction is "you should get Ice Network! is is so good, and has so much and i can't rave about it enough!" rather than the more typical somewhat tepid "well it exists" reaction we usually see.

The thing is USFSA should *want* their skaters to have access to stuff like that. Frankly I think your a-ma-patron videos could be useful to skaters and coaches, I would think they would want them to be able to study their performances that intently.

That is actually pretty sad that some skaters had to contact you to try to get their performances. They really should have that. It would not cost the organizers *that* much to get a cheap USB stick for each skater and load up their footage on it and mail it to the. Even if it means raising the ticket price $1.00, skaters really should have this and the sport should *want* them to have it.

USFSA is really struggling to bring skating into the internet age. USA Gym, for example, is really into sharing footage with fans (they have all competitions livestreamed for FREE unless they are being broadcast LIVE on NBC). After each competition, all of the routines are uploaded online (without commentary). Ice Network may be making USFSA a few thousand dollars a year that USA Gym is not getting. However, they are gaining fans by making footage more accessible, which will pay off in the long run.

Sorry, rant. In my real-life job I work in social media and I'm a huge skating fan/former skater so it makes me sad to see my beloved sport to which I devoted countless hours for many years struggle.

 

[StitchMonkey]

sabinfire Thanks for sharing the letter (in a polite and respectful manner). In this day and age, this should not be happening. The ISU and the federations should want skaters to have this. They should want them to be proud enough to show it off for years to come. That is part of how to grow the sport. Maybe the skater who contacted you will become a teacher, maybe he'd like to show it to the class each year and use it in a lesson. Why would that be bad? It wouldn't be, it would help the sport, but for some reason technology seems to scare some of them.


As for the analytics, well I like those as well. It is interesting to see where things spread.

USFSA is really struggling to bring skating into the internet age. USA Gym, for example, is really into sharing footage with fans (they have all competitions livestreamed for FREE unless they are being broadcast LIVE on NBC). After each competition, all of the routines are uploaded online (without commentary). Ice Network may be making USFSA a few thousand dollars a year that USA Gym is not getting. However, they are gaining fans by making footage more accessible, which will pay off in the long run.

Sorry, rant. In my real-life job I work in social media and I'm a huge skating fan/former skater so it makes me sad to see my beloved sport to which I devoted countless hours for many years struggle.

That is what bugs me too. Wouldn't they make more money if they actually sold out all the events? To me selling out events should be goal number one, videos and web presence should be seen as promotion of that goal primarily.

I think it was DorisPulaski that made the point that they should be allowing free access to the sectional/regional skates. The idea being, that those skaters could then tell their friends, neighbors, teachers, local clubs, parent's workmates, etc. where and how to watch. Funny thing is, I bet some people would be more likely to sponsor skaters if they could watch them. And once in a while some of those watching are going to notice some other skater, and once in a while they are going to make it big. And don't you think some people might be more likely to have a soft sport for a skater they remember watching randomly years ago? of course they are! Something like that is so simple but could really help grow the sport.

And they likely could monetize the videos. Here is an idea, for each performance post it three times from three different cameras. Call me crazy but i bet a lot of us would watch from each angle. Set it up right and you can get revenue for each view. I would be happy to watch a stupid commercial to get to see a high quality video. For me that is a fair trade off.

I think some may just think that social media is not going to last. Just like some said video games would not last, and others said online shopping.

 

[UnsaneLily87]

sabinfire Thanks for sharing the letter (in a polite and respectful manner). In this day and age, this should not be happening. The ISU and the federations should want skaters to have this. They should want them to be proud enough to show it off for years to come. That is part of how to grow the sport. Maybe the skater who contacted you will become a teacher, maybe he'd like to show it to the class each year and use it in a lesson. Why would that be bad? It wouldn't be, it would help the sport, but for some reason technology seems to scare some of them.


As for the analytics, well I like those as well. It is interesting to see where things spread.




That is what bugs me too. Wouldn't they make more money if they actually sold out all the events? To me selling out events should be goal number one, videos and web presence should be seen as promotion of that goal primarily.

I think it was DorisPulaski that made the point that they should be allowing free access to the sectional/regional skates. The idea being, that those skaters could then tell their friends, neighbors, teachers, local clubs, parent's workmates, etc. where and how to watch. Funny thing is, I bet some people would be more likely to sponsor skaters if they could watch them. And once in a while some of those watching are going to notice some other skater, and once in a while they are going to make it big. And don't you think some people might be more likely to have a soft sport for a skater they remember watching randomly years ago? of course they are! Something like that is so simple but could really help grow the sport.

And they likely could monetize the videos. Here is an idea, for each performance post it three times from three different cameras. Call me crazy but i bet a lot of us would watch from each angle. Set it up right and you can get revenue for each view. I would be happy to watch a stupid commercial to get to see a high quality video. For me that is a fair trade off.

I think some may just think that social media is not going to last. Just like some said video games would not last, and others said online shopping.

Yup! And USA Gym sells out many of their major events. I feel like USFSA has also pinned their hopes on a star coming and bringing viewers back in droves. But if the next Michelle Kwan popped up under today's situation, I doubt she'd have reached mainstream attention except during the Olympics (when EVERYONE and their mother had an opinion on everything...but I digress...).

Hire me as your Social Media Director, USFSA! If I knew who to talk to I'd totally submit a resume. Screw political communications (my current job), I'm going back to skating!

 

[karne]

I remember reading an interview with Max about a video of his on Youtube and he reckoned he accounted for most of the hits because he always went back over it multiple times to make sure he could pick out every tiny little error. And that was after he became National Champion. So...that's pretty sad, if National Champions have to resort to watching their programs again on Youtube.

 

[ice coverage]

I remember reading an interview with Max about a video of his on Youtube and he reckoned he accounted for most of the hits because he always went back over it multiple times to make sure he could pick out every tiny little error. And that was after he became National Champion. So...that's pretty sad, if National Champions have to resort to watching their programs again on Youtube.

But .... as much as I love Max, I remember thinking at the time of that interview that the management of icenetwork would not be happy that he referred to YT.

Max should have been watching himself on icenetwork.

---

BTW, regarding the discussion above your post .... I find it hard to believe that live skating comps in the U.S. would start selling out if only other comps were streamed for free to the U.S. audience.

 

[gravy]

But .... as much as I love Max, I remember thinking at the time of that interview that the management of icenetwork would not be happy that he referred to YT.

Max should have been watching himself on Icenetwork.

Max would have to shell out $50 to watch himself on IN, which is ridiculous. The USFS should have been providing the footage to Max (and other skaters) themselves.

 

[UnsaneLily87]

But .... as much as I love Max, I remember thinking at the time of that interview that the management of icenetwork would not be happy that he referred to YT.

Max should have been watching himself on icenetwork.

---

BTW, regarding the discussion above your post .... I find it hard to believe that live skating comps in the U.S. would start selling out if only other comps were streamed for free to the U.S. audience.

It would not be automatic, or even a quick shift. But it would make access easier, which means more fans would be able to watch and get invested in the sport. They'd therefore be more likely to tune into TV competitions and attend events. That's the strategy USA Gym is using and it seems to be working.

 

[ice coverage]

Max would have to shell out $50 to watch himself on IN, which is ridiculous. The USFS should have been providing the footage to Max (and other skaters) themselves.

USFS members can purchase an icenetwork subscription for $25, which is hardly ridiculous.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2014/08/25/87055832​

(Max and other Team USA skaters are required to belong to USFS, if I am not mistaken.)

I'm guessing that the issue is not the cost of the IN subscription.
I gather that IN is not easily viewable on tablets and smartphones?? That tech hurdle would seem to be more of a problem, IMO.

It would not be automatic, or even a quick shift. But it would make access easier, which means more fans would be able to watch and get invested in the sport. They'd therefore be more likely to tune into TV competitions and attend events. That's the strategy USA Gym is using and it seems to be working.

I did and do understand the concept behind the "investment" theory you are putting forth. I just don't buy the theory.

Are you saying that tix to U.S. Gymnastics competitions are selling out b/c of free live streaming?
Or at least are showing significantly increased sales?

 

[StitchMonkey]

Are you saying that tix to U.S. Gymnastics competitions are selling out b/c of free live streaming?
Or at least are showing significantly increased sales?

I am far from an expert at all, but I actually remember reading about how well Utah specifically is doing in selling tickets to college competitions. They have put in the effort to grow it, and I am sure the tactics UnsaneLily87 mentioned help. At this point it is highest attendance for women's college sports.

more can be found here.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/26/sports/at-packed-utah-womens-gymnastics-meets-marketing-earns-high-scores-too.html

So I would say that yes there is organic growth potential. Even if a few areas (like Utah) could become hot beds, it would be helpful.

 

[andromache]

USFS members can purchase an icenetwork subscription for $25, which is hardly ridiculous.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2014/08/25/87055832​

(Max and other Team USA skaters are required to belong to USFS, if I am not mistaken.)

I'm guessing that the issue is not the cost of the IN subscription.
I gather that IN is not easily viewable on tablets and smartphones?? That tech hurdle would seem to be more of a problem, IMO.

I personally find YouTube to be far easier to navigate than IN. Its search function is more reliable, and it's possible to add videos to a playlist or "like" them to make them easier to find later. Plus, I don't think IN isolates all of the individual performances, so sometimes trying to find a particular performance means playing an entire event and trying to find the performance within that video. For example, I searched "Max Aaron short program US Championships" on IN, and the only results are videos for entire events.

Although now that I'm conducting a similar experiment on YouTube, maybe this isn't the best example as I can't seem to immediately find his 2015 Nationals SP on there, either.

Anyway, I think YouTube is generally faster and more convenient for viewing particular programs. I caved in and purchased IN to watch events live, but I never use it when I want to rewatch a particular performance.

 

[ice coverage]

I am far from an expert at all, but I actually remember reading about how well Utah specifically is doing in selling tickets to college competitions. They have put in the effort to grow it, and I am sure the tactics UnsaneLily87 mentioned help. At this point it is highest attendance for women's college sports.

more can be found here.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/26/sports/at-packed-utah-womens-gymnastics-meets-marketing-earns-high-scores-too.html

So I would say that yes there is organic growth potential. Even if a few areas (like Utah) could become hot beds, it would be helpful.

Thx for the article, Stitch.

But as far as I can see, the gymnastics article does not mention anything about live-streaming of the sport ... and thus does not attribute ticket sales to availability of live-streaming of other gymnastic events.

So I remain skeptical that free live-streaming of skating eventually would lead to massive increases in ticket sales for skating competitions.

 

[ice coverage]

... So...that's pretty sad, if National Champions have to resort to watching their programs again on Youtube.

I personally find YouTube to be far easier to navigate than IN. Its search function is more reliable, and it's possible to add videos to a playlist or "like" them to make them easier to find later. Plus, I don't think IN isolates all of the individual performances, so sometimes trying to find a particular performance means playing an entire event and trying to find the performance within that video. For example, I searched "Max Aaron short program US Championships" on IN, and the only results are videos for entire events.

Although now that I'm conducting a similar experiment on YouTube, maybe this isn't the best example as I can't seem to immediately find his 2015 Nationals SP on there, either.

Anyway, I think YouTube is generally faster and more convenient for viewing particular programs. I caved in and purchased IN to watch events live, but I never use it when I want to rewatch a particular performance.

I originally was reacting to karne's sadness that our beloved Max has to "resort" to watching himself on YT. My point was that he has the option of watching archived video on IN.

And depending on whom one asks, it is not necessarily a matter of "resorting" to YT anyway, because it is the preferred platform for andromache and perhaps others (such as Max ).

[If Max had to watch himself repeatedly on IN, I think he would be smart enough to remember that his own program started at 41:22:37 (or whatever the actual hit time is) within the entire Men's SP.]

 

[sabinfire]

Started working on a Pogorilaya vid a few days ago, then I heard about the injury... got discouraged and kinda abandoned it. Came back to it tonight to do a bit of a rushed/sloppy job. My sincere apologies for the ending...

Anna Pogorilaya Spinamatron (1080p HD)

And posted yesterday in the Fan Fest area, some retro Liza spinning 2010/2011, a couple interesting spin positions she is no longer doing:

Elizaveta Tuktamysheva retro Spinamatron (1080p HD)

 

[dorispulaski]

I did not think it would bother you, but I do think it is neat to see. It is subtle enough no one is going to be distracted by it, but it gave me a silly warm fuzzy feeling to see because i knew to look for it. I also thought you might like that he used your footage for Josh as I know you are a fan.

I suspect USFSA says "go get IceNetwork" which as i understand is not really intended to be able to edit and download the same. They think we will get it if the wear us down. The problem is everytime it comes up, I am watching for when fan reaction is "you should get Ice Network! is is so good, and has so much and i can't rave about it enough!" rather than the more typical somewhat tepid "well it exists" reaction we usually see.

The thing is USFSA should *want* their skaters to have access to stuff like that. Frankly I think your a-ma-patron videos could be useful to skaters and coaches, I would think they would want them to be able to study their performances that intently.

That is actually pretty sad that some skaters had to contact you to try to get their performances. They really should have that. It would not cost the organizers *that* much to get a cheap USB stick for each skater and load up their footage on it and mail it to the. Even if it means raising the ticket price $1.00, skaters really should have this and the sport should *want* them to have it.

It is typical for the club hosting summer events to license a particular videographer who films each performance and then sells the footage on DVD or video stick to the skaters. At the same time, parents and other camera owners are forbidden to take videos. The skater is apt to have multiple performances if there is a large field, as there will be an sp qualifier and an sp final and so forth. A skater could end up paying quite a lot to see all of her vids. I am not up on current prices, but the last summer comp I went to, it was significant $. So I do not expect anyone to give out free films ever.

 

[StitchMonkey]

It is typical for the club hosting summer events to license a particular videographer who films each performance and then sells the footage on DVD or video stick to the skaters. At the same time, parents and other camera owners are forbidden to take videos. The skater is apt to have multiple performances if there is a large field, as there will be an sp qualifier and an sp final and so forth. A skater could end up paying quite a lot to see all of her vids. I am not up on current prices, but the last summer comp I went to, it was significant $. So I do not expect anyone to give out free films ever.

And that is the problem. They would rather make money than improving and growing the sport. They literally want to prevent people from learning and improving on the chance they can make money. I wonder how many injuries could be avoided if coaches had access to tapes rather than being greedy. They should not make deals with videographers that don't allow for provisions for the athletes to get access to what i see as needed information. I frankly think in this day and age a rules of "you can only film if you share what you film" would be much better overall than making a deal with someone so as to prevent people from gaining access.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I have a few offers out there to video and edit down jumps and programs ranging from skaters looking to perform in ice shows to skaters who compete internationally. As of now I'm not charging these people because they are friends or people I work with. That said....filming and editing down ...especially programs.... can be very time consuming. I see no reason not to pay someone for their efforts. I've already helped one girl to see her UR issues are actually quite obvious. The camera doesn't lie.

I would say my point is it is possible to find your own fairly inexpensive videographer to study your technique. PGA pros probably don't rely on tv footage to fix their swing and instead do analysis primarilary on their own. Maybe I should tour America with my jumpamatron set up and a good jump coach.

Then again I'll edit down a video for 5hrs just to get 100 views of which at least 20 are from me.