2015 Worlds Short Dance March 25

[viennaskater]

whoa her eye make up is crazy

Piper is gorgeous but the eye make up is rather overdone.

 

[viennaskater]

Whenever I see Gilles she makes me long for Vanessa Crone.

WHY??? Vanessa wasn't THAT good.

 

[cheerknithanson]

what happened to morozov? did he loose weight?? lol

You mean the one who looks like he's doing voodoo when his students are skating?

 

[ancientpeas]

I just preferred Crone to Gilles. Just a personal preference I guess. I do think Gilles is over matched with Poirer but I'm hardly an expert.

 

[Mrs. P]

From rules: In Partial Step Sequence, if partners do no remain in contact at all times, even during changes of Hold and allowed stops, the Level shall be reduced by one Level (per element). This provision does not apply to loss of contact due to a Fall.

Maia and Alex lost hand contact in the middle of Partial Step Sequence - it is not very visible from camera - they had terribly bad angle camera today. In this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7vixbumu-M - it is on 2:49.

They need to loosen the rules for the SD. They are so unnecessarily punitive- a small time of separation doesn't threaten the ice dance and pairs worlds to collide!!!!

Ah, thanks for the explanation. That's a real shame and yes really punitive. Well c'est la vie. I hope, against the odds it seems they can move up in the FD.

 

[zytolda]

I've just watched europsort and I totally agree with commentators - PC were the best as the couple

 

[Krunchii]

Why on earth are Papadakis/Cizeron not leading? Did I miss something?

They had a weaker than usual skate but they had the highest PCS so there is still hope, they have the best FD of the season IMO and I just can't wait to see it

I'm not so optimistic for the Shibs though, their SD is the stronger program, I'm actually seriously not happy with these marks, Shibs were one of the best of the night and couldn't even get an SB? Blasphemous

 

[sabinfire]

I had mentioned earlier in this topic, just before the Shibutani's came out for their SD, that I had a bad feeling about them here. The group they were in, the judging that was going on -- not surprised (or in disagreement) with the result, necessarily.

Hope this bodes well for the other American team, at least.

 

[zytolda]

They had a weaker than usual skate but they had the highest PCS so there is still hope, they have the best FD of the season IMO and I just can't wait to see it

I'm not so optimistic for the Shibs though, their SD is the stronger program, I'm actually seriously not happy with these marks, Shibs were one of the best of the night and couldn't even get an SB? Blasphemous

I am not the expert and i don't see the difference between step sequence level 3 i 4 but I could watch PC skate all day long

 

[Krunchii]

I am not the expert and i don't see the difference between step sequence level 3 i 4 but I could watch PC skate all day long

It's not something glaring to me either but they did get the highest PCS of the night so I think it's ok because there is still the FD to go, it's the other team's scores that make me side eye these judges

 

[fanofskating]

I thought the team trained in Detroit but didnt know it was Igor, there are 3 or 4 amazing dance schools there, I guess he chose his home country but I am sure he has lived in the US for quite some time. There are three of them so hopefully the real score comes out.

 

[KKonas]

No. The controller supervise the calls. If he/she thinks they are wrong he can change them, providing that one of the two between TS and ATS agree with him/her. So it's a majority vote.

This is actually wrong. Although two of the three on the tech panel must agree, the TC cannot change a call if both the TS and ATS agree on a call.

 

[Alba]

I hope, against the odds it seems they can move up in the FD.

They can. Unless they don't get the levels or make mistakes. Their FD is much better than I&Z's, no matter how good they can skate, and the difference they have in the SD is basically zero.

 

[invisiblespiral]

Okay, I tried to watch W/P, and ended up yelling at the commentators. I also don't like most sexy programs, so.... I'm really glad next year is the waltz. I'll join in the collective GS toast in 2021....

 

[Alba]

This is actually wrong. Although two of the three on the tech panel must agree, the TC cannot change a call if both the TS and ATS agree on a call.

TS, among other things does:

3. Supervises the calls of the technical specialists and the input of the names and correct levels of difficulty of the performed elements.

4.Corrects, if necessary, the calls of the technical specialist. If both technical specialists disagree with the proposed correction, the initial decision of the technical specialists shall stand. If the two technical specialists do not agree, the decision of the technical controller shall prevail

5. Authorizes or corrects the deletion of elements

6.Authorizes or corrects the identification of illegal elements, illegal movements in ice dancing and illegal holds in pairs skating

http://www.usfsa.org/Content/Technical Controller Description.pdf

So yes, as I said, he can. Providing he has one TS with him/her, or not. Suffice that the two TS do not agree with each other either. I don't know what's wrong with my original comment tbh.

 

[NorthernDancers]

I watched the whole thing live with the lovely people of GS and I don't think the judging was rigged. I just didn't like C/B's paso the best. I find it impossible to judge ice dance technically unless there is a fall or a huge bobble. I seriously doubt that it's rigged. I do think judges have favourites and I do think that sometimes there is biast toward certain styles of performing.

In ice dance levels are everything. If you get the levels you get the scores and you win. I still think P/C will win the FD. I'd like for W/P to win but I'm happy with the best team winning.

I liked the Shibs program better than C/Bs. I like the Shibs long better too.

C/B are a bit like Duhamel/Radford in pairs. A lot of people don't seem to want them to win but if they get the levels and other teams don't then they will. I just want the result to make sense and if C/B got the levels and other teams didn't then they should be in first place. IMO.

I think this is the "nut" of the matter. We'd be naive to think that there still isn't some politicking going on. Judges meet and talk, and I have to think skaters are going to come up in conversation. It's a pretty small world. And where there are titles on the line, each Fed will be doing what they can to promote their skaters. Some teams have really good media spin. P/C are really good skaters, but they are at risk of being over-hyped, which can hurt them in the long run (queue the Shibs). They have really good speed, great flow and unison, matching extensions, etc. But they are NOT anywhere near the complexity of V/M or even D/W at this time. G/P are another team that is higher than they should be due in large part to hype/bias/reputation. Sorry, but their PCS and GOE should be lower than P/I. By contrast, the Danish team did not really just come out of nowhere this year. They've actually been quite good for awhile, and finally got some reward for it because judges just haven't been paying attention in the past. The tide floats all boats, and as their coaches are achieving success with P/C, H/D, perhaps the judges were more attuned to FB/S.

But I think a big part of the issue with judging is that too many judges (along with many fans) are still half stuck in the old 6.0 system. It's easier to understand how to judge the technical side, although they certainly could use some help with the GOE's yet (the "how" the element was done as compared to the rules). But with PCS, we have judges who are not dance experts themselves, perhaps did not even skate dance themselves before, and often are steeped in an old tradition. The rules are clearly defined, and have nothing to do with dramatic vs subtle styles, whether or not we like the music, or anything like that. The criteria for PCS are well defined, but lately have not been followed very well. We need more, and younger and current judges for ice dance who are dancers themselves, and hopefully did some skating. Then we will start to see more consistency in scores. Right now the bias is really about the personal preferences of those on each particular judging panel, and what they think ice dance should be about, with a mindset still stuck in 6.0. You can see trends within each competition. Are the dramatic, crowd friendly programs winning more PCS points (ie. M/K as high as 10th), or are the more dance-like programs (ie. Hur/Dia down in 15th). M/K may check the boxes for levels, but the quality, the how, of what they are doing is not good. They are almost unwatchable for me. But Hur/Dia are beautiful in their CH, IN, TR, and overall quality of movement and understanding of the dance. While they may be hurt technical on TES levels, the GOE should be mostly better, and the PCS should be a lot higher. This problem of PCS, and to a certain extent GOE, has existed for the last few years, and it needs to be better addressed.

 

[chloepoco]

I'm no expert in ice dance, but really did not expect the Shibutani's to be so low in the standings after watching the last two groups! From just an audience perspective, I enjoyed them the most, by far.

 

[Sugarpova]

On a positive note, S/B did (finally!) get a level 4 for their twizzles, which was Much Deserved.

oh I am def very happy about that. At last!

Bleeding happens quite often when lady skates on her knee.
In the opening part of the SD after a jump over Ivan Sasha is moving backward staying on her knee (pictures taken from Russian Nats) -

.
After first Paso Doble section Sasha puts her right calf near to bleeding left knee -

.
Here in SD Sasha got bleeding skating on her left knee because ice was sharp, but her right leg was not injured.

poor Sasha
thanks a lot for the explanation

 

[samson]

I wondered about KPs and L3 too. This is what I found in the handbook for Technical Panelists:
Category:Ice Dance
Subjectattern Dance Elements and Partial Step Sequence
File name:Handbook for Technical Panels 2014.docx
Page 15 of 103
Version: 2014 D – Pattern Dance Elements and Partial Step Sequence
Date:31.7.14

Characteristics of Levels
(source: Communication 1860)

Level 1: 75% of Pattern Dance Element/Partial Step Sequence is completed by both partners

Level 2: Pattern Dance Element/Partial Step Sequence is not interrupted more than 4 beats in total, either through
Stumbles, Falls or any other reason
AND
1 Key Point is correctly executed


Level 3: Pattern Dance Element/Partial Step Sequence is not interrupted more than 4 beats in total, either through
Stumbles, Falls or any other reason
AND
2 Key Points are correctly executed

Level 4: Pattern Dance Element/Partial Step Sequence is not interrupted at all,
either through Stumbles, Falls or any other reason
AND
3 Key Points are correctly executed

I thought the Shibs skated well so I was curious about how tech folks evaluate levels. This is for informational purposes only, it does not reflect the opinion of this poster

Ah alright I think I know what happened with The Shibs! If you watch right at the very end of their second pattern there is a slight but very clear stumble. If the camera angle had been better we would have seen it. It happens around the 2:45 mark on this youtube video:
https://youtu.be/BGRoVDndQms?t=2m50s

So even though they hit all the key points (and good on them for that!) unfortunately this very small stumble must have kept them from getting a level 4. It's a real shame to happen too because otherwise it was a wonderfully skated routine and would have put them in at least 5th.

Apologies if someone else already pointed this out - I should really be getting ready for work so I didn't have time to read the rest of the thread!

 

[Sugarpova]

& add my disappointment Nelly/Alex WD
I really was looking forward to seeing their Almodovar on Ice today
poor Alex
hopefully he will get well soon