You are right, Gold and Wagner blew it in the short program. That being said, I disagree with the poster who said Tuktamyashiva is a better skater than Gold. The reason Gold was kept as high as she was in the short was because of her skating skills. The score Tuktamyashiva received for IN was out of whack. I am not saying Gold should have won, but her freeskate should have beaten Tuktamyashiva. Also, Wagner is not an artist on ice. She is more like Tuktamyashiva in her skating than Gold.
2015 Worlds Ladies Free Skate March 28
- Thread starter Mrs. P
- Start date
You are right, Gold and Wagner blew it in the short program. That being said, I disagree with the poster who said Tuktamyashiva is a better skater than Gold. The reason Gold was kept as high as she was in the short was because of her skating skills. The score Tuktamyashiva received for IN was out of whack. I am not saying Gold should have won, but her freeskate should have beaten Tuktamyashiva. Also, Wagner is not an artist on ice. She is more like Tuktamyashiva in her skating than Gold.
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2011
Please, the other two are acting like the reincarnation of t.A.T.u. Where was she supposed to look?
LMFAO, Satoko looks so uncomfortable. Does she speak English. It could be also hard to interact.
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2004
This made me laugh out loud! Does anyone have a link to Gracie's skate? I'd love to see the video.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2003
well she could have joined them...
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2003
I think she does speak English. She grew up in the US and started skating there. When she moved back to Japan, her coach made her change the direction of her jumps, so I read somewhere.
Art&Sport, are you joking or did you genuinely mean everything you wrote? Because if it's the latter... :shocked: You sound like you genuinely care about figure skating, but I don't know how anyone can make those arguments and really believe them.
"U.S. skaters should be unconditionally supported and encouraged."?? May I ask why? Why should we treat US skaters as a protected species, while you lambast Russian and Japanese skaters at every turn even when they clearly outskated the US girls?
You go on and on about reputation judging and politics, but then you get angry that Polina did not get a political "boost" for being 4CC champion.
The truth is, Ashley and Gracie bombed their SPs. They skated well in the LPs, but not well enough to move up. Polina went "clean," but she has her own issues in terms of speed/SS, hesitation before the jumps, more maturity/standing out, ect.
It doesn't matter if (in your opinion) the US ladies "are" better skaters. They have to show they are better skaters in competition, and they didn't do that.
I love Ashley very much. If she'd skated like Nationals, and Liza didn't bring 3A, I'd hang the gold medal around her neck. But Ashley didn't skate like Nationals, and Liza did bring 3A. That's the reality we live in, and the scores reflect that. I'm heartbroken that Ashley missed the podium, but I know her placement had nothing to do with politics and everything to do with how she skated. And I'm sure Ashley herself knows this too. Cruel as it is, isn't that what we want? For medals to be earned on the ice, not based on reputation/what someone "could" do.
"U.S. skaters should be unconditionally supported and encouraged."?? May I ask why? Why should we treat US skaters as a protected species, while you lambast Russian and Japanese skaters at every turn even when they clearly outskated the US girls?
You go on and on about reputation judging and politics, but then you get angry that Polina did not get a political "boost" for being 4CC champion.
The truth is, Ashley and Gracie bombed their SPs. They skated well in the LPs, but not well enough to move up. Polina went "clean," but she has her own issues in terms of speed/SS, hesitation before the jumps, more maturity/standing out, ect.
It doesn't matter if (in your opinion) the US ladies "are" better skaters. They have to show they are better skaters in competition, and they didn't do that.
I love Ashley very much. If she'd skated like Nationals, and Liza didn't bring 3A, I'd hang the gold medal around her neck. But Ashley didn't skate like Nationals, and Liza did bring 3A. That's the reality we live in, and the scores reflect that. I'm heartbroken that Ashley missed the podium, but I know her placement had nothing to do with politics and everything to do with how she skated. And I'm sure Ashley herself knows this too. Cruel as it is, isn't that what we want? For medals to be earned on the ice, not based on reputation/what someone "could" do.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
I was out almost all day yesterday (only barely got home in time for Brendan and Josh in the men), and when I opened the ladies' results, my jaw just dropped.
I have made the following observations:
- Queen Liza.
- So after all that, Satoko's appalling technique ended up on the podium anyway.
- Holy guacamole, Gracie and Ashley. I need to watch these programs pronto.
- then a bit of a gigglesmirk that Gracie ended up with the second-placed FS AND ahead of Ashley and my first thought was: oh my god everyone is going to HATE this.
I have made the following observations:
- Queen Liza.
- So after all that, Satoko's appalling technique ended up on the podium anyway.
- Holy guacamole, Gracie and Ashley. I need to watch these programs pronto.
- then a bit of a gigglesmirk that Gracie ended up with the second-placed FS AND ahead of Ashley and my first thought was: oh my god everyone is going to HATE this.
How dare you suggest American skaters not receive preferential treatment!
(I'm sure somebody will take this seriously, so yes, it is sarcasm)
Well, technically they did move up. Just not high enough to get medals
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2014
Very dramatic competition, indeed. We knew that Anna was struggling. I still hoped that she would overcome, that the health issues are not that big. Alas, building on the last year WC's momentum she apparently had her best chance and missed. What is next? Medvedeva will be around for sure, and if puberty does not hit her she seems to be a better bet for the team than Pogo. Then there are Yulia and Adelina. But Anna is still only 16. It is up to her now, but chances will be fewer and fewer. And she said she was too patriotic so that the change of the fed might be out of question.
Elena did everything she could. She had 38 before the SP. Thtn she felt weak and tired after taking medicines. And she had to fight during the FP. She did not have the right for the meltdown and she delivered. What a girl!
Liza's SP was inspiring. Not only because of the perfect 3A. She projected so much confidence, she was so smooth. Don't know why but she was much more vulnerable during the FP. Hope it was just a momentary lapse of her self-esteem and that she came to stay at least until the Olympics.
What a comeback from Gracie and Ashley! They were grossly overscored in SP - it's a tradition already. Remember how Ashley got about 60 at GPF after a lamentable SP. Well, even with those scores they seemed to be out of any consideration (same as Kovtun btw.). And they showed teeth! Gracie made a statement that she just needs to get herself together and then she can be one of the top skaters because she has it all. We will see next season. Fundamentally she is the best - I am less and less enthusastic about Polina.
So Yun Park. I have a "grudge" against - I lost many points betting and betting on her during the GP prediction game. But seriously - she showed promise last year in Japan. And like Anna she just did not develop this season. Then the idea that she can be the next Olympic champion seems very unrealistic at this moment.
And the Japanese. I cannot see Rika's edges and URs. I just see the power, consistency, and desire. And I wish she was getting higher scores - she is my favorite Japanese skater now. Satoko, well, not my cup of tea.
And finally, it was one of the cleanest events in terms of judging. Keeping up the top Americans during the SP and may be some generousity towards Satoko were by far the only things worth discussing in that department. Yet, once again I read here the same "analytical" opuses about Russian politicking from the same writers. Hope they will just get tired of figure skating and this forum.
Elena did everything she could. She had 38 before the SP. Thtn she felt weak and tired after taking medicines. And she had to fight during the FP. She did not have the right for the meltdown and she delivered. What a girl!
Liza's SP was inspiring. Not only because of the perfect 3A. She projected so much confidence, she was so smooth. Don't know why but she was much more vulnerable during the FP. Hope it was just a momentary lapse of her self-esteem and that she came to stay at least until the Olympics.
What a comeback from Gracie and Ashley! They were grossly overscored in SP - it's a tradition already. Remember how Ashley got about 60 at GPF after a lamentable SP. Well, even with those scores they seemed to be out of any consideration (same as Kovtun btw.). And they showed teeth! Gracie made a statement that she just needs to get herself together and then she can be one of the top skaters because she has it all. We will see next season. Fundamentally she is the best - I am less and less enthusastic about Polina.
So Yun Park. I have a "grudge" against - I lost many points betting and betting on her during the GP prediction game. But seriously - she showed promise last year in Japan. And like Anna she just did not develop this season. Then the idea that she can be the next Olympic champion seems very unrealistic at this moment.
And the Japanese. I cannot see Rika's edges and URs. I just see the power, consistency, and desire. And I wish she was getting higher scores - she is my favorite Japanese skater now. Satoko, well, not my cup of tea.
And finally, it was one of the cleanest events in terms of judging. Keeping up the top Americans during the SP and may be some generousity towards Satoko were by far the only things worth discussing in that department. Yet, once again I read here the same "analytical" opuses about Russian politicking from the same writers. Hope they will just get tired of figure skating and this forum.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2014
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@Arts&Sport
I agree with most of your opinions, but not the reasoning behind them (particularly your overemphasis on the 'politics' at play):
1) On U.S. SKATERS BEING UNDERSCORED...
I would argue in this case that "most" would be correct! We see this same thing happen time & time again: a terrific skater commits errors in the SP, and rebounds with an outstanding LP (now that the pressure is off). Unfortunately due to skating that LP earlier in the competition, they NEVER receive the marks they would (and should) have received had they skating in the final group. A clear example of this is Mao Asada at the 2014 Olympics.
And, as Minze2001 & aftertherain point out, your broad conclusion that the US skaters were underscored for political reasons clearly doesn't hold true when you look at the scores for Gracie and Ashley in the SP:
2) On SATOKO...
I agree with your opinion here:
While I too would not have scored Satoko so highly, nevertheless the key factor that led to Satoko's silver medal was not over-scoring related to politics; rather, as Minze2001 points out, simply that:
However, while I would not go so far as to claim:
...nevertheless, it is true that:
But alas...
I would therefore argue that Satoko's 'high scores' (which allowed her to claim the silver medal) are a result of the current COP system having no clear/major deductions for small jumps, and the fact that she skated in the final group.
3) On POLINA...
Again, I agree with your opinion:
It is also puzzling to me why Polina scored as low as she did in both segments (especially the SP). But, even though she is considered by many to be the #3 U.S. lady (which might seemingly lend support to your argument of her marks being held down accordingly), I still don't buy into your political conspiracy rationale!
Unlike many others, I like Polina's programs, jumping & spinning style, choreography and interpretation. In fact, her short program reminds me of Caryn Kadavy's 1988 Olympic short program which was one of the best skated at that competition!
Admittedly, Polina is lacking some maturity; but so are most, if not all of the other 'teens' competing in Shanghai. She's obviously not as fast as Gracie or Ashley, yet she does appear (at least to me) to be skating at an adequate speed. [**My opinion based only on TV and video clips; I've never seen Polina skate live]. Nevertheless, given comments by others, perhaps her speed is the major issue accounting for her lower scores??
Polina's low scores remain somewhat of a mystery to me. But, given that so few on this forum have raised any issue/concern over the marks she received, or with her SP, LP or overall placements, I must conclude that my evaluation of her skating is flawed. I simply must not be seeing what it is that others' view as detracting from Polina's performances. But, most surely, grand political conspiracies are not the reason!
With respect,
Steve
@Arts&Sport
I agree with most of your opinions, but not the reasoning behind them (particularly your overemphasis on the 'politics' at play):
1) On U.S. SKATERS BEING UNDERSCORED...
I would argue in this case that "most" would be correct! We see this same thing happen time & time again: a terrific skater commits errors in the SP, and rebounds with an outstanding LP (now that the pressure is off). Unfortunately due to skating that LP earlier in the competition, they NEVER receive the marks they would (and should) have received had they skating in the final group. A clear example of this is Mao Asada at the 2014 Olympics.
And, as Minze2001 & aftertherain point out, your broad conclusion that the US skaters were underscored for political reasons clearly doesn't hold true when you look at the scores for Gracie and Ashley in the SP:
2) On SATOKO...
I agree with your opinion here:
While I too would not have scored Satoko so highly, nevertheless the key factor that led to Satoko's silver medal was not over-scoring related to politics; rather, as Minze2001 points out, simply that:
Satoko's clean SP allowed her to skate her LP in the final group. And, as for ALL competitions, those in the final group tend to be awarded more generous marks than if they had performed the identical programs in an earlier flight. [*So long as they put out at least a mediocre performance; poor performances in the final group do not tend enjoy this same 'inflation'].
However, while I would not go so far as to claim:
...nevertheless, it is true that:
But alas...
I would therefore argue that Satoko's 'high scores' (which allowed her to claim the silver medal) are a result of the current COP system having no clear/major deductions for small jumps, and the fact that she skated in the final group.
3) On POLINA...
Again, I agree with your opinion:
It is also puzzling to me why Polina scored as low as she did in both segments (especially the SP). But, even though she is considered by many to be the #3 U.S. lady (which might seemingly lend support to your argument of her marks being held down accordingly), I still don't buy into your political conspiracy rationale!
Unlike many others, I like Polina's programs, jumping & spinning style, choreography and interpretation. In fact, her short program reminds me of Caryn Kadavy's 1988 Olympic short program which was one of the best skated at that competition!
Admittedly, Polina is lacking some maturity; but so are most, if not all of the other 'teens' competing in Shanghai. She's obviously not as fast as Gracie or Ashley, yet she does appear (at least to me) to be skating at an adequate speed. [**My opinion based only on TV and video clips; I've never seen Polina skate live]. Nevertheless, given comments by others, perhaps her speed is the major issue accounting for her lower scores??
Polina's low scores remain somewhat of a mystery to me. But, given that so few on this forum have raised any issue/concern over the marks she received, or with her SP, LP or overall placements, I must conclude that my evaluation of her skating is flawed. I simply must not be seeing what it is that others' view as detracting from Polina's performances. But, most surely, grand political conspiracies are not the reason!
With respect,
Steve
I think it was just nerves. She desperately wanted to make sure she didn't mess up and lose the title, and sometimes when you're desperate to hold on to something, you're not at your best. But she got the job done
AnnaP get higher PCS than SoYoun?!
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2014
To me she looked a bit relaxed on the LP. Maybe the adrenaline after the SP was down, idk.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2014
Agreed. :thumbsup:
Say it enough, and say you are THE Woman = THE Artist!
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2014
Yep. It's like the waiting room at the dentist or in the clinic.
I repeat, the sofa idea and now "the room", it's completely stupid. 
I really hope it will NEVER be used again!
I don't understand Polina's low scores either. And I also don't understand why Rika got UR calls, but not Satoko.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2014
Yulia got silver in her first senior WorldsI don't mean to put words in SarahSynchro's mouth - but I think she is talking performance-wise, like how the girls actually skated - Elena got bronze because of her SP and poor Anna had a bad competition. All of the Russian competitors probably breathe a sigh of relief when they see one of the other Russian ladies have rough competitions because of how difficult it is to get on the Worlds/European team.
I understand what you're saying, but Yulia would have had to work to get on that podium just the same. It's not like she was somehow robbed of getting a chance to go to Worlds- she was really falling apart performance-wise & having a lot of jump problems this season. I don't see why she'd be sitting at home, seething at Elena for her "poor" performance, thinking how she herself would have just flown up onto the podium & snatched another World medal. :scratch:
Not trying to put down Yulia, just pointing out it's not like she would have been an easy cinch for the podium at this point. Elena worked hard & deserved to medal in this competition.
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