2015 Worlds Ladies Free Skate March 28

[karlowens2]

Though I can to sort of appreciate it in the end, Polina's LP was too soft. Hard to project to and therefore inspire the audience. For sure next year she'll do something with a more adult theme. PeterPan for a 16 yo broadcasted the wrong thing. If her body cooperates I think she will be a major force in a year or 2. And, I think she has a good head on her shoulders. I'm always impressed with her press quotes.

 

[ks777]

One thing I noticed about Polina's skating was that she slows down a lot before the jumps and she has no flow coming out of her jumps.

 

[Ophelia]

^She was one of the slowest skaters of the night for me. She was crawling across the ice and telegraphing all of her jumps.

 

[satine]

I think you misunderstood the OP satine. He/She wasn't saying that Elena didn't deserve her place here, or that Yulia would've done better. He/She said that maybe Yulia watching the WC would feel better - considering her bad season - knowing that other Russian girls on top (Anna and Elena in this case) aren't infallible either.

I don't think that Yulia would feel better or worse tbh. You don't need to see a not so good performance in order to know that skaters aren't infallible, even the strongest ones. But that's what the OP was saying anyway.

Well my original response was to the fact that Elena's performance was called 'poor', which I still argue that it was not. The OP (not the person I was responding to in your quote of me) said that would (theoretically) be of some comfort to Yulia. I say it definitely wouldn't, because that was not a 'poor' performance. It was good enough for bronze- at her first Worlds -while being sick no less.

 

[cl2]

I am not really sensing the hate myself but I think people are critical of her jumps because not only are they low and borderline UR or UR without call like the one I showed in the 4cc video I made(pretty much 360 degrees rotated on the ice)...they aren't really worthy of any bullet points that I can think of and yet they continue to recieve positive GOE. I wish someone could please explain which bullets she is hitting to get even a +1 let alone the +2's.

<Sorry, snipped out your other positive comments>

I preface my response with the admission that I'm not trained as a judge, but I do read the IJS rules and have above average comprehension skills. So let me hazard a guess as to why Satoko gets positive GOEs. Of the 8 bullet points that contribute to positive GOEs, I almost always see that she has

#5) good extension on landing / creative exit
#6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences

Specifically, I think she has good extension, and her speed and exits without scratchy/floppy landings justifies good flow. That's already a +1 GOE. On some of her jumps, she also has some or all of

#1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
#2) clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
#7) effortless throughout
#8) element matched to the musical structure

These also partly depend how the jump is choreographed. The effortless thing... maybe it's subjective. Nonetheless, these could bump her up to +2 GOE. I suspect she never has

#4) good height and distance

Actually, I think some of her jumps have good distance simply because of her speed, but not good height. I don't think I've ever saw her having

#3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation

Of late, I have seen a marked improvement in her URs, especially at Worlds. So if you buy into my analysis, you would have to agree that her quality of jumps, when performed correctly, rightfully garners positive GOEs.

 

[OS]

Never posted here before.
Just think I can give you some idea about Satoko from all Japanese reports this week.

Thanks for your informative and heartfelt post and welcome to the forum fg0993. I can only speak for myself, please understand while I do often criticize judging, I have nothing against any of the skaters. I only do so, because I do think unfairness destroy the credibility of the sport and it is important to point them out whenever possible. As far as I am concerned Kovtun can be the nicest adorkable guy in the world (aka Jason Brown), I am still going to call out overmarking and undermarking when I see it.

Figure skating is an intriguing complex multidisciplinary sport where athleticism meet art, where performance (how big, how fast, how high, how far), quality and precision are judged by fickle minded anonymous human beings to determine the outcome, each bring with them inherent favourtism/prejudices however conscious or unconsciously so. While skating is more than jumps but still jumps do still account for more than half of the technical marks. Being able to rotate is not as important is how well you can rotate, get there, finish, impact. Although there are variables that can affect how one competition are judged to the next, but take Satoko's SP score at this competitions for instance

She received 67.06 for her short program which would have beaten Carolina SP as a reigning world champion back in 2013, 66.86.

In the same competition her 3lz3t received 10.80 vs
Elena's 3lz3t 10.90
Polina's 3lz3t 10.30
Anna - one of the best 3lz3t received 10.90
Gracie who has the other best 3lz3t received 11.10 in the FS

Consider Yuna's 2013 SP 3lz3t where she received 11.50.

Compare them side by side, how is it fine for this sport to only have 0.7 points separate them if so called quality is suppose to be measured? Especially a 0.7 is worth the equivalent of only GOE +1 these day in any of the categories. I look at all their 3lz3t and i can only scratch my head. Clearly the scoring is out of wack.

Let me put it another way, how is it fair to other athletes who doesn't have the musicality, choreography, interpretation that Satoko has but are being punished for it in the PCS, but not the other way round? I for one don't think Satoko would have got those marks had she skated for another country like Vietnam. Make what you will. It is not about hate, it is to get some perspective.

 

[FlattFan]

If people think Julia should have +goe on her jumps then satoko should have +goe on her jumps.

 

[CutieP]

Okey people, I want to say something about Elena and Gracie and a little bit about the bronze medal. So buckle up all you little piggies, I will tell you something interesting:

I presume that for every figure skating fan it is obvious that that these two ladies have one thing in common (not talking about hair colour) and one thing that is totally different. Almost every competition that these two have participated for the past few years confirms these facts.

The thing that they have in common is that they are both very talented. The thing that is different is that one of them is a competitor and the other is not.

Gracie Gold lost to a sick Elena Radionova and she definitely, without any doubt, deserved to lose to a sick Elena Radionova, because Gracie Gold is NOT a competitor. Elena is.

That's all folks!

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

If people think Julia should have +goe on her jumps then satoko should have +goe on her jumps.

You used to argue that Julia should get -2 at best for her jumps. Haven't seen a word out if you regarding Satoko's jumps who is clearly a sub par jumper compared to Yulia. I've always maintained that Julia should get around +1. Well I've only suggested that Satoko should get zero GOE.

I think your unfairness should be your biggest concern.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I preface my response with the admission that I'm not trained as a judge, but I do read the IJS rules and have above average comprehension skills. So let me hazard a guess as to why Satoko gets positive GOEs. Of the 8 bullet points that contribute to positive GOEs, I almost always see that she has

#5) good extension on landing / creative exit
#6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences

Specifically, I think she has good extension, and her speed and exits without scratchy/floppy landings justifies good flow. That's already a +1 GOE. On some of her jumps, she also has some or all of

#1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
#2) clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
#7) effortless throughout
#8) element matched to the musical structure

These also partly depend how the jump is choreographed. The effortless thing... maybe it's subjective. Nonetheless, these could bump her up to +2 GOE. I suspect she never has

#4) good height and distance

Actually, I think some of her jumps have good distance simply because of her speed, but not good height. I don't think I've ever saw her having

#3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation

Of late, I have seen a marked improvement in her URs, especially at Worlds. So if you buy into my analysis, you would have to agree that her quality of jumps, when performed correctly, rightfully garners positive GOEs.

I appreciate your response. I am not looking to argue but was merely fascinated to understand where people find the positives bullets in her jumps. I agree with you about bullets 5 and 6 but if she lands a jump even borderline I think those bullets go bye bye and she goes back to zero GOE.

 

[cl2]

I appreciate your response. I am not looking to argue but was merely fascinated to understand where people find the positives bullets in her jumps. I agree with you about bullets 5 and 6 but if she lands a jump even borderline I think those bullets go bye bye and she goes back to zero GOE.

Yes, and the judges have not hesitated to give her 0 GOEs for her weaker jumps, especially in 3-3 combos where she loses speed on the 2nd jump. What I don't understand is the impression many dislikers give off, that awarding positive GOEs to low jumps are a corruption of the rules, without regard for any other qualities the jump may have.

 

[andromache]

Okey people, I want to say something about Elena and Gracie and a little bit about the bronze medal. So buckle up all you little piggies, I will tell you something interesting:

I presume that for every figure skating fan it is obvious that that these two ladies have one thing in common (not talking about hair colour) and one thing that is totally different. Almost every competition that these two have participated for the past few years confirms these facts.

The thing that they have in common is that they are both very talented. The thing that is different is that one of them is a competitor and the other is not.

Gracie Gold lost to a sick Elena Radionova and she definitely, without any doubt, deserved to lose to a sick Elena Radionova, because Gracie Gold is NOT a competitor. Elena is.

That's all folks!

I think instead we can pinpoint the reason why Gracie lost to Elena is because of her poor SP. We don't need to make broad generalizations based on someone's arbitrary definition of "competitor."

 

[slider11]

I think Polina needs to capture her long, lean lines and find something balletic to skate to. Please not Romeo and Julliet but something lyrical and expressive. She needs long sleeved costumes to soften the long arms. Her jumps are sound but so telegraphed and the performance is lacking depth and maturity. But for 16 not bad. I would have her listen to 10 or so balletic pieces and have her pick something that she could relate to and grow with. I'm still holding out for Mirai (I can hear the groans from here) but Polina certainly has potential.

 

[Barb]

I think instead we can pinpoint the reason why Gracie lost to Elena is because of her poor SP. We don't need to make broad generalizations based on someone's arbitrary definition of "competitor."

but why she did poor in the sp?. i think it is very obvious that Elena is mentally stronger than Gracie. Aparently Gracie has very good practices bur she can not do it in competition, and the competition is short and long program, not only one segment.

 

[andromache]

but why she did poor in the sp?. i think it is very obvious that Elena is mentally stronger than Gracie. Aparently Gracie has very good practices bur she can not do it in competition, and the competition is short and long program, not only one segment.

When discussing the scoring of specific events, it's much more helpful and insightful to cite specifics of what happened on the ice (such as Gracie's mistakes in her SP) rather than to say she lost to Elena because Gracie is not a competitor. There are no points earned for being a competitor. Gracie is a bit of a headcase, but saying that actually has nothing to do with the concrete scores and why Gracie lost to Elena.

 

[Alba]

Well my original response was to the fact that Elena's performance was called 'poor', which I still argue that it was not. The OP (not the person I was responding to in your quote of me) said that would (theoretically) be of some comfort to Yulia. I say it definitely wouldn't, because that was not a 'poor' performance. It was good enough for bronze- at her first Worlds -while being sick no less.

I agree that wasn't "poor". Maybe for the OP was, idk.
Anyway, I was just clarifying that the OP wasn't saying that Yulia should've been there, or that she could've/would've done better. That's all.

 

[Alba]

I've always maintained that Julia should get around +1.

She hits 5 bullets, at least, so +1 as well looks low to me.

As for Satoko, well I like her and thanks god I'm not obsessed with the big jumps although I do love them.

 

[peg]

Being able to rotate is not as important is how well you can rotate, get there, finish, impact.

This.

 

[Skater Boy]

It will be ten years, that's when they'll break the curse.

Clearly Polina, Ashley and Gracie all have potential to medal at world's; it is a matter of time. I wonder though whether Rad and Pog will be seen next year. They both seem to have issues but I love the joy of Elena Rad. Supposedly Korpi will be back but we will see her clock might be ticking too. so many wonderful skaters and so few medals. The Japanese look strong, russsia while vulnerable will have challengers, USA has three great ladies ready for a medal. Add a S Korean, chinese and maybe a healthy Osmond and the top ten is filled. Leaving france, italy,Sweden and al fighting for crumbs.

 

[Plisskin]

I am not really sensing the hate myself but I think people are critical of her jumps because not only are they low and borderline UR or UR without call like the one I showed in the 4cc video I made(pretty much 360 degrees rotated on the ice)...they aren't really worthy of any bullet points that I can think of and yet they continue to recieve positive GOE. I wish someone could please explain which bullets she is hitting to get even a +1 let alone the +2's.

On the bright side her overall skating is very nice and I'm not sure if she is as musical as she is delicate in movement but she does a good job interpretating her programs this season. I applaud her for her accomplishment and grabbing silver in her first WC. I certainly don't hate her but I don't think criticizing her jumps and some of the judges marks as hating her.

Welcome to GS fg0993 Your post was very informative and I welcome and encourage you to post more often. I really like learning stories about skaters like the ones you shared. I was very shy to the point of tears as a kid myself and now I'll just bulldoze right into a conversation and even thrive when performing in front of large crowds.

Very much agree with this.