2016 Cup of China Ladies FS

[Osmond4gold]

Preferring other skater=disrespect
I def dont roll like that

Really like Zijun this year even more:thumbsup:

Perhaps some things are lost in translation here SP, but being critical of another while hyping your own, esp. when both skaters (Liza and Kaetlyn) did extremely well in achieving personal goals after injuries, is IMO = bad taste.

 

[Sugarpova]

Perhaps some things are lost in translation here SP, but being critical of another while hyping your own, esp. when both skaters (Liza and Kaetlyn) did well in achieving personal goals after injuries, is IMO bad taste.

hmm Im aware that Liza & Lena arent flawless btw & I never held them above Ashley or Kaitlyn or anyone else .
Im happy b/c I had lower expectations for them this very day
I was sure that Osmond will be in top 3 100% but our gals really could surely have problems b/c of cold & fighting puberty, landings etc etc so its logical to pay attn to your favs more

Not to take anythjing from anyone who had problems either...
Zijun trained without a coach so mad respect for her more than anyone

 

[lavoix]

W.T.F was up with Osmond's PCS? That routine is too cheap for the score she got.

Felt bad for Mihara. She's the only other Japanese (apart from Mao) that I actually like.

 

[sowcow]

Apologies if this was already answered earlier...

Looking at the ladies FP protocols, I notice the final 2 spins performed by Ashley WAGNER have a 'V' symbol added to both elements as listed in the protocols; and in both cases, the Base Value (BV) awarded was reduced by 1 level (e.g. her level 3 FCCo spin was given the BV of a level 2 FCCo spin).

EXAMPLE 1:

• Base Value (BV's) for CCoSp's
  • CCoSp4 — 3.50
  • CCoSp3 — 3.00
  • CCoSp2 — 2.50
• Ashley WAGNER:
  • CCoSp2V — 2.00 (...and not 2.50)

EXAMPLE 2:

• Base Value (BV's) for FCCoSp's
  • FCCoSp4 — 3.50
  • FCCoSp3 — 3.00
  • FCCoSp2 — 2.50
• Ashley WAGNER:
  • FCCoSp3V — 2.50 (...and not 3.00)

QUESTION:

• What does the 'V' indicate?
  • [Unlike the '<', '<<' and 'x' symbols, there is no notation in the protocols explaining what 'V' stands for...]
• Assuming that V = violation, then what were Ashley's violations on her final 2 spins?
  • too few rotations?
  • not holding a position long enough?
  • not in correct position?
  • other?

Thanks...

 

[formersk8ter]

So do the rules instruct judges to mark pre-rotations with, I guess, a >? You write that some ladies have ALMOST no pre-rotation? So they still are pre-rotating. Seemingly it is so prevalent, as Carroll suggest, that there is really little point in judging them.

Prerotation is sometimes misunderstood. With loops and axels (especially triples), for instance, it's true that skaters turn on the ice somewhat as they get that "oomph" into the air. But that doesn't mean that the jump is necessarily "pre" rotated.

As an example, let's say a skater, preparing for a triple axel, is skating on an outside edge, aimed directly toward the judges, but then turns into the jump a quarter turn (or a little more). Then it depends on exactly where the jump leaves the ice and, more importantly, where it lands. A jump can appear prerotated, but it is possible that all the rotations are still clean.

 

[Osmond4gold]

W.T.F was up with Osmond's PCS? That routine is too cheap for the score she got.

Felt bad for Mihara. She's the only other Japanese (apart from Mao) that I actually like.

Was thinking same, lavoix. Can you imagine giving such marks to...a Canadian woman? Don't they know "the Club" rules? What's next, woman driving in Saudi Arabia...hell no!

Remember to colour within the lines people.

 

[twirlingblades]

Prerotation is sometimes misunderstood. With loops and axels (especially triples), for instance, it's true that skaters turn on the ice somewhat as they get that "oomph" into the air. But that doesn't mean that the jump is necessarily "pre" rotated.

As an example, let's say a skater, preparing for a triple axel, is skating on an outside edge, aimed directly toward the judges, but then turns into the jump a quarter turn (or a little more). Then it depends on exactly where the jump leaves the ice and, more importantly, where it lands. A jump can appear prerotated, but it is possible that all the rotations are still clean.

Yes, with these two jumps especially. For triple loops, you should be doing about ~2.5 rotations in the air (take off close to forwards). Axels should take off sideways.

 

[Raomina]

Apologies if this was already answered earlier...

Looking at the ladies FP protocols, I notice the final 2 spins performed by Ashley WAGNER have a 'V' symbol added to both elements as listed in the protocols; and in both cases, the Base Value (BV) awarded was reduced by 1 level (e.g. her level 3 FCCo spin was given the BV of a level 2 FCCo spin).

EXAMPLE 1:

• Base Value (BV's) for CCoSp's
  • CCoSp4 — 3.50
  • CCoSp3 — 3.00
  • CCoSp2 — 2.50
• Ashley WAGNER:
  • CCoSp2V — 2.00 (...and not 2.50)

EXAMPLE 2:

• Base Value (BV's) for FCCoSp's
  • FCCoSp4 — 3.50
  • FCCoSp3 — 3.00
  • FCCoSp2 — 2.50
• Ashley WAGNER:
  • FCCoSp3V — 2.50 (...and not 3.00)

QUESTION:

• What does the 'V' indicate?
  • [Unlike the '<', '<<' and 'x' symbols, there is no notation in the protocols explaining what 'V' stands for...]
• Assuming that V = violation, then what were Ashley's violations on her final 2 spins?
  • too few rotations?
  • not holding a position long enough?
  • not in correct position?
  • other?

Thanks...

The details can be found here: http://static.isu.org/media/1001/tphb-singles-2016-2017.pdf

I think this is the relevant part for CCoSp2V

A spin combination with and without change of foot which includes only 2
basic positions with not less than 2 revolutions will have a lower base value
in comparison with a spin combination with all 3 basic positions with not less
than 2 revolutions. The corresponding base values are listed in the SOV in
the “V” column.​

While this might be relevant for FCCoSp3V

For flying spins (with no change of foot and only one position) of both Short
Program and Free Skating the following is required: a clear visible jump. The
sign “V” indicates that this requirement is not fulfilled. The base values of spins
with the sign “V“ are listed in the column V of the SOV table.​

Edit: Actually, looking at her spins (and it's possible that the flying spin requirement doesn't apply when it's a CCo spin), both might be due to the 2 basic positions rule, but I'm not that good at analyzing spins so I might be wrong. She might not have enough rotations for the upright position in the last spin? Spin rules are so complicated. No wonder everyone sticks with their same spins...

 

[ancientpeas]

The details can be found here: http://static.isu.org/media/1001/tphb-singles-2016-2017.pdf

I think this is the relevant part for CCoSp2V

A spin combination with and without change of foot which includes only 2
basic positions with not less than 2 revolutions will have a lower base value
in comparison with a spin combination with all 3 basic positions with not less
than 2 revolutions. The corresponding base values are listed in the SOV in
the “V” column.​

While this is relevant for FCCoSp3V

For flying spins (with no change of foot and only one position) of both Short
Program and Free Skating the following is required: a clear visible jump. The
sign “V” indicates that this requirement is not fulfilled. The base values of spins
with the sign “V“ are listed in the column V of the SOV table.​

Thanks for this info.
Seems like a silly thing for her to mess up. Maybe her head wasn't quite in the game today?

 

[randomfan]

I was too busy to write up a SP review, so here's mine for the FS. I was planning to watch this live but then I fell asleep right before it started...

1. Elena Radionova: Once again, I doubted poor Lena's abilities, despite being a fan. I didn't even have her on the podium in my predictions... Anyways, I'm so happy to see that she took home the gold here and that even with her jumping issues she's still in the mix. PCS was very inflated though.
2. Kaetlyn Osmond: She always had such a nice charm on the ice but I think this season she's taking it up a whole new level. Now with a lot more consistency (and less injuries) Kaetlyn just keeps wowing me at every event. I think her spot to the final is secure so it'll be interesting to see how she does there.
3. Elizaveta Tuktamysheva: To be honest, I doubed Liza too...(I'm a terrible person ) and especially after hearing about her illness I wasn't expecting her to do too well here but she proved me wrong. I still prefer Cleopatra to this program but it has improved a little bit from last season. Still loving the choreo sequence!
4. Mai Mihara: It really was a close game. Had Mai landed that 3-jump combo she would've beat Liza and be close to Kaetlyn. She's really starting to grow on me now. Her style may be a bit boring but still lovely to watch, and her jumps are great. Hoping to see her do well at Nationals.
5. Rika Hongo: Judges hammered her again, but not as much as others have at least. It was nice to see that after auch unfair treatment at Skate Canada, Rika was able to have much better scores here. The program is alright, but I don't think Rika matches the mood if yet. Like Mai, I'm still hoping for her to do well at Nationals.
6. Ashley Wagner: Honestly, I'm really shocked. Though this may not be relevant anymore, Ashley would usually do well from the underdog position, but that wasn't the case here. Also, the PCS should've been slightly lower by about 2 points but the TES should've been much higher. Shin Amano got some of the tech calls right, but not all of them. Now it'll be really hard for Ashley to get a spot to the final...
7. Karen Chen: This was one of the better international outings for Karen. Her programs are nice and her technical elements are really good. Too bad that she has to compete at NHK next week, but I'm hoping that she could be a top 6 spoiler there.
8. Zijun Li: Again the SP is great! The FS is good but I think it could be better. Anyways, I find it sad that even at her home country she doesn't receive much love from the judges. I think she got hosed in her scores for both segments.

Also, whoever was in charge of continuously changing the camera angle to the bird's eye view during the some of the skaters' spins should be fired ::ddevil:

 

[Meoima]

Yes, with these two jumps especially. For triple loops, you should be doing about ~2.5 rotations in the air (take off close to forwards). Axels should take off sideways.

Yes, some skaters take of axel backward but don't get called though... lol

 

[Icey]

What I am more concerned about than jumps is the laxity with which spins are being judged . That some of them even qualify as a "spin" mystifies me. Has the definition of "spin" changed. Those skaters who are really good spinners are being shortchanged in comparison to those who are not. Hardly fair. I get the impression that jumps rule and spins..... don't know what to say lol.

 

[Alexz]

thats what we call 'russian women' here
never give up & get things done!

& Papa Mishin is even better reverse jinxer than me!!:rofl2::agree:
congrats my Queen Liza!!!!

& sorry but Daleman >>>>>>>> Osmond

Sad about Ash (((((

Stop a galloping horse and walk into a house on fire?

 

[Alexz]

Is it just me or I'm kinda secretly want Lenok to beat Med at least twice this season? It would be good for the world of figure skating to have a girl derby between Radio and Med for few years to come.,. Rivalry is always good for popularizing the sport!

What's left where Med and Radio can square it out this season? Rus Nats, Euros, GPF, Worlds? 4 tournaments, huh...

 

[Osmond4gold]

Is it just me or I'm kinda secretly want Lenok to beat Med at least twice this season? It would be good for the world of figure skating to have a girl derby between Radio and Med for few years to come.,. Rivalry is always good for popularizing the sport!

What's left where Med and Radio can square it out this season? Rus Nats, Euros, GPF, Worlds? 4 tournaments, huh...

Don't forget Kaetlyn, who has come closer this season than others, to beating Med in competition.

 

[Alexz]

Don't forget Kaetlyn, who has come closer this season than others, to beating Med in competition.

Oh, you are obviously a ruthless Kaetlyn's fan, aren't you. But yep, I agree. Please refer to my other posts where I took my speculations on the upcoming 4 big tournaments of this season even further: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?61263-Who-is-going-to-qualify-for-the-GPF/page5

 

[Osmond4gold]

Oh, you are obviously a ruthless Kaetlyn's fan, aren't you. But yep, I agree. Please refer to my other posts where I took my speculations on the upcoming 4 big tournaments of this season even further: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?61263-Who-is-going-to-qualify-for-the-GPF/page5

You know it! Thanks for the link and the inclusion, Alexz. BTW, the cast of Hamilton called, and would LOVE to have you!

 

[Alexz]

You know it! Thanks for the link and the inclusion, Alexz. BTW, the cast of Hamilton called, and would LOVE to have you!

I'm all-inclusive, why not. But those judges are there to judge and we just might wanna keep our alligators on a leash so they won't alligate too early.

 

[Krunchii]

Ashley Wagner ‏@AshWagner2010 14 minutes ago
On the bright side, I have a lovely garden salad to eat with all of those carrots I got yesterday #laughitoff and #keeppushingforward

Oh Ashley why are you so endearing, can't wait to see you at Nationals

 

[shiroKJ]

Ashley Wagner ‏@AshWagner2010 14 minutes ago
On the bright side, I have a lovely garden salad to eat with all of those carrots I got yesterday #laughitoff and #keeppushingforward

Oh Ashley why are you so endearing, can't wait to see you at Nationals

Lol Ashley.