Don't forget to add, the Boyang supporters were actually in the arena said Patrick deserved to win. They said if Boyang's PCS goes up, then Patrick's should too and instead of blaming Patrick and talking bad about him, they simply said that the PCS gap is too big and Boyang needs to improve more. Also Boyang in his documentary (which I personally translated and subtitled in my own time, I posted it in his fanfest) was happy with his silver and said he wanted to improve more.
2017 Four Continents Men SP
- Thread starter Mrs. P
- Start date
Don't forget to add, the Boyang supporters were actually in the arena said Patrick deserved to win. They said if Boyang's PCS goes up, then Patrick's should too and instead of blaming Patrick and talking bad about him, they simply said that the PCS gap is too big and Boyang needs to improve more. Also Boyang in his documentary (which I personally translated and subtitled in my own time, I posted it in his fanfest) was happy with his silver and said he wanted to improve more.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
indeed... VB referred to that earlier and I also said BJ has to a lot more room to improve... I am not sure why, other than being excited for him, so many people think he is "there "yet or if not quite there yet, much closer to the point that they use the "wuzrobbed" excuse.
People forget one very important thing. Sure Shoma has an easier time in terms of skating skills from juniors to seniors... But Jin is still very young. I am excited to see how he will develop over the next quad. His goal must be 2022... and that will be thrilling to see how these guys evolve for that. People take for granted that because some skaters like Yuzu or Shoma get out of juniors with polished skating and could aspire to win Olympics at a very young age, (Yuzu was the youngest ever if I recall) that other very young skaters have that full package yet. I personally think from the 3 young guns that Shoma is the better rounded one. I don't think Jin or Nathan have it all yet. But we will see what the power of 2+5 =7 landed quads could do...
again... this is based on BV from previous competitions.... what if Patrick comes up with two quads? he would be pretty much in the same league as all the others... Sure his 4S isn't worth as much as a 4L or 4Lz, but it's also much closer in BV than a 3Lz....
I think we will soon find out who goes clean and who doesn't..... the if everyone goes clean speech hasn't been very useful in the last competitions because it almost never happens... too many risky jumps... this being said, all I will say is that I disagree with the poster who said if everyone goes clean Jin and Chan are equal.. Chan should have higher GOE and PCS enough to compensate for the 3Lz versus 4Lz here.... but we will see
Jin got 98.45 for a clean 2-quad sp at 4CC last year and Chan got 99.76 at gpf last year. Jin's best sp score is close to Chan's best sp score. But Jin's best sp score is from last season and judges have been less generous to him this season. (Jin's clean sp at coc last year is 96.17.) So based on this season's scores, Jin probably won't score higher than Chan in the sp when they both skate clean. But if judges become more generous to Jin at 4CC, then Jin's SP score will be very close to Chan's sp score. That said, I don't think Jin will get more generous scores at 4CC because he has become less consistent this season and Chinese fed's priority is pairs, not men (and their pairs have been doing quite well this season).
Actually, I think Skate Canada's priority now is team gold. That's my guess.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
I believe it's more about Boyang's consistency than about the judges generosity. He came on the Senior scene with his nonchalant self and shook up the figure skating world. But it's proven hard to maintain the relaxed attitude with that Worlds medal and the glaring spotlights on him this season. He can still challenge the top guns if he gets back to his natural carefree mindset and pulls out his usual easy clean jumps. However, he does have a way to go in skating skills and other PCS aspects to win over the few others with BV close to his as well as much higher PCS.
I believe consistency and judges' generosity is correlated. Judges are more generous to consistent skaters than inconsistent skaters, ceteris paribus.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
TES are cumulative element scores (BV+GOE) given as each is executed in a performance. Inconsistency is a matter of series of results from a series of performances and, if it affect judges' "generosity", should be reflected on the PCS. Except for COC last year, Boyang's PCS this season are actually higher, even at SA when he faltered, resulting in lower TES and thus TSS.
It just may be a little quick to call him inconsistent with just a poor early season showing this year at SA, resulting in his absence at the GPF and fewer results to show so far.
Consistency is a relative measure. None of the men is really consistent due to the difficult layout they are attempting. They make mistakes in most competition. (You can call all of them inconsistent.) If a man can give two good competitions in a row, it's already considered very impressive (if he only gives one good competition, many people will think it's just a fluke) and will give him a lot of momentum for future competitions.
Judges also give more generous GOE to skaters who are more consistent, not just PCS.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
I don't usually care to be right and continue a debate but I'm just curious enough about how you came about this theory/impression. Please show me how Boyang is scored less generously this season than last, TES wise since his PCS are actually higher this season.
duplicate.
Last edited:
His highest sp score this season is lower than his highest sp last season, in both TES and PCS. I do think his sub-par performance at SA impacted his score at COC.
Duplicate
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2014
Yes indeed. A cleanly landed all jump is great but the hard part is to make it look seamless into the program instead of giving up the performance half way and focusing on jumps.
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2014
And one example at 4CC of this could be Julian Yee; he does not sacrifice performance for the jumps.
Go Julian!
If you watch the performances carefully he changed his jump entrances from SA to CoC, in his documentary he talked about SA and said he tried to add more transitions and it made the program feel unfamiliar to him and he messed up all the jumping passes.
Just look at how he changed the entrance to the 3A at Skate America to just simply gliding into the 3A at Cup of China. Also his solo jump is the 4T and he barely has any steps into it and there's actually a break in steps which judges would probably ding an unknown skater for.
Like do you really expect judges to reward him when he's simplifying his programs for his jumps? He's packaged a lot better this year and his skating skills have improved a little but in general, as a fan of him, people are giving him too much credit.
I was comparing Jin's clean sp score this season with his clean sp score last season, not comparing his score at COC and SA. His PCS this season actually has been consistent. My point is, improved consistency increases scores even if your quality doesn't improve and there is no change in layout. If you lose consistency (or become less consistent), your score also drops, or at least doesn't increase much even when you improve.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
There is clean and then there is clean. Look at his 4Lz3T at 4CC 2016 and at COC this season. Don't you think judges were right to give him higher GOE (1.86) last year than this (0.86)? He was at his best technically at 4CC last year, all his jumps flawless and easy, his spins faster than this season's COC, etc. You can compare element by element. His best SP so far this season just wasn't technically up to par to last season's best. He even lost a level for a spin. He was lucky to have his TES just 1.39 lower while improving his PCS by .89.
I just don't see his current season's COC SP scores being lowballed for the reason you have suggested. His scores simply reflect the performances, at least relatively.
Of course, we most likely haven't seen his best this season yet. So we are just comparing the two performances you have chosen to compare as evidence of judges' biased judging, except there isn't such bias in this case.
eta. Link fixed.
Last edited:
Similar threads
