2017 Four Continents Men FS

[KatGrace1925]

Please don't. I am a Nathan fan and Yuzu fan. That is what I love about watching 4cc ... an opportunity to see many talented, artistic skaters.

I'm also a big fan of both. It was fun to see them go head to head. I honestly think this will push Hanyu to get back to his 330 combined score form which would be fun to see at worlds.

 

[asiacheetah]

I just watched the entire Men FS field with the exception of maybe the first skater. Boy was that a splat fest. I should be trying to enjoy the skating instead of holding my breath the entire time. Yes the field has technically advanced in the last 3 years, but man is it hard to watch. Overall, I was pretty meh about the whole thing.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I sometimes wish he wasn't so stubborn about the 4S-3T in the short. it's not like it's worth a lot more than 4T-3T.

But am I the only one who noticed if Hanyu is going to mess up a quad it's the Salchow? It seems to be a pattern this season, maybe they need to use the quad toe more. idk.

Yuzuru hasn't dropped the 4T for the 4S because of more points - it's very likely related to his injury. End of last season he had a Lisfranc fracture in his left foot, which was mostly caused by training the 4T. The injury was bad enough to nearly threaten to end his career (I think he said somewhere that going into WC2016 - or after the LP there - he thought it would be his last competition?). Even after it was clear he could continue to skate, there were talks about skipping this season. He basically had to relearn his jumps from singles, and a lot of program choreo had to be adjusted. Given that the 4T caused the injury, even if it is healed now, I'd think they're going back on the 4T to avoid this happening again. Hence, the 4S3T. Even if it's frustrating, I think he should very much stick to that. I'd rather have him do 2Ss than not skate at all.

(I'm not trying to lecture someone or anything, before that's the next remark thrown because I'm a Yuzu fan. I just wanted to explain what I think is the reasoning behind his layout)

 

[4everchan]

The person being stalked by Kermit and his girlfriend?

patrick scored 17.17 on his 4t-3t... boyang, if I recall 18.60??? on his 4lz-3t...

that shows you .. when chiddy is on, the jumps are flawless in the air... not tilted, just big... you can count the rotation easily as his speed is maintained evenly throughout the jump... etc..

 

[kevinVchicago]

In terms of "performance" (in the humble opinion of a theater director and actor), I think that Boyang Jin's "performance" is quite as good as the best of them. There is something so intensely heartfelt about the way he interprets both of his programs this season. It's a sort of beauty that is impossible to fake, and honestly that's why he's my favorite. It's not as transcendent as someone like Hanyu, Satoko Miyahara, or Laurine Lecavelier, not as elegant as Patrick Chan, not as heartbreaking as Shoma Uno; but, it is just as good in my opinion. I understand that a big part of the PCS is skating skills, transitions, etc, and I am not close to being an expert on those...

As a sidenote, I have the feeling that Zijun Li is being consistently robbed of 10+ points a competition (SP and FS) in terms of PCS. Can anyone corroborate this? As I said above, I am not an expert!

 

[shyne]

Protocols, always enlightening. Some of those transition scores make me

Transition score counts so little these day anyway. (a point difference in a score of 200+ is basically nothing)
TES pretty much determines the placement.

 

[eta]

While I cannot agree with the PCS given, well, it is kind of expected right? We all know there's going to be a PCS boost for Nathan being the US #1 and the quad boy.

But really, I like Nathan SP, but I cannot imagine there are so many ubers who are trying to defend that his FS is artistic and impressive to watch (while claiming Yuzuru FS is boring)

I guess we all must have completely opposite taste and preference. It is quite entertaining for me to read these arguments anyways.

I tell myself that all the time. Excepted, expected, expected. Doesn't really help.

 

[DaPurpleDino]

I'm also a big fan of both. It was fun to see them go head to head. I honestly think this will push Hanyu to get back to his 330 combined score form which would be fun to see at worlds.

I hope so! If he skates both programs clean it would be interesting to see how everyone else falls around him, provided they also skate clean

 

[eta]

Transition score counts so little these day anyway. (a point difference in a score of 200+ is basically nothing)
TES pretty much determines the placement.

Very true. Little things do add up though. More so when helped by some not-so-little boosts.

 

[el henry]

Well well well...

I admire tremendously Nathan's focus and precision and jumping ability. I hope to heaven he helps get three spots for the US men at Worlds. And that someone next year gives him an LP with some actual program elements besides jumps, and he develops artistry and performance to match the scores he is now getting.

Me, I'd rather watch the next to last flight again. I like living in my own little World with skates like Misha's and Jason's. And everyone else can go live in theirs

 

[Krislite]

I guess. only because Jin Boyang's Quad Loop got downgraded. Two men did 5 quad attempts tonight. I guess you can count Yuzu as one who attempted 5 quads as well since he threw in a last minute quad toe + double toe, so had he laded the double Sal it would have been 5 quads as well.

Not taking anything away from Nathan, but that seems all his fans can concentrate on, is how many quads he landed. That's not saying much about his skating if that's all you can think of.

For a top skater, he really needs to beef up his PCS scores, because he has nothing to fall back on if his jumps are not with him on any particular day.

Almost doesn't count. Attempts are just on paper until they're actually landed.

Chen's strength is his technical side and it is where he's breaking ground, which is why people talk about it. But his detractors are exaggerating his lack of artistic merit.

 

[xeyra]

patrick scored 17.17 on his 4t-3t... boyang, if I recall 18.60??? on his 4lz-3t...

that shows you .. when chiddy is on, the jumps are flawless in the air... not tilted, just big... you can count the rotation easily as his speed is maintained evenly throughout the jump... etc..

Going to watch Patrick's video now. I do love his 4T-3T. Favorite in the business. Even when it's 4T-3T-boards, because I find that so endearing for some reason.

 

[KatGrace1925]

Yuzuru hasn't dropped the 4T for the 4S because of more points - it's very likely related to his injury. End of last season he had a Lisfranc fracture in his left foot, which was mostly caused by training the 4T. The injury was bad enough to nearly threaten to end his career (I think he said somewhere that going into WC2016 - or after the LP there - he thought it would be his last competition?). Even after it was clear he could continue to skate, there were talks about skipping this season. He basically had to relearn his jumps from singles, and a lot of program choreo had to be adjusted. Given that the 4T caused the injury, even if it is healed now, I'd think they're going back on the 4T to avoid this happening again. Hence, the 4S3T. Even if it's frustrating, I think he should very much stick to that. I'd rather have him do 2Ss than not skate at all.

(I'm not trying to lecture someone or anything, before that's the next remark thrown because I'm a Yuzu fan. I just wanted to explain what I think is the reasoning behind his layout)

That makes sense. It also explains why this season started out messy for him. He didn't seem like himself at his first grand prix event but he's been getting better from there. I would also rather him pop a jump than not skate at all, his skating is so wonderful to watch and this season I know others don't like this program but it is my favorite he has ever done.

 

[dailytg20]

My NBCSN livestream still going strong!

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/christmas-decorations-christmas-trees

Thank you so much for the livestream!

The picture was so sharp it made my CBC feed look like I was on dial-up in comparison.

 

[asiacheetah]

Yuzu cannot do two 4S and two 4T in the same program because he already planned for two 3A.
He did the second 4T because he popped the 4S. It was added based on plan B.

So a 5-quad program was never for this season.

I noticed you didn't really address the point of my post in the first place. It wasn't about whether Yuzu was attempting a 5 quad FS this season, I know he's not. I just mentioned he's not the ONLY guy attempting 5 quads and 4 different quads in his program. He and Jin are both doing it. I don't think it's a surprise that they are also the two with the lower PCS scores because they overtrain and emphasized jumps rather than developing artistry.

I watched Nathan's program and it's just a jump fest. Might be personal preference. I also loved Michelle Kwan, Yuna Kim, Patrick, and Yuzu's style of programs where it's more musically cued and what feels to me to be more emotional. Frankly, I thought Yuzu skated a slow, safe program. A bit emotionally distant actually. I actually commented wondering if he hurt his back because he changed his Bielman spin and doesn't seem to be moving and bending his upper body much.

 

[da96103]

This just mean Yuzuru has not peaked yet. Yuzuru would be going to the Worlds as the underdog for the Gold. Less pressure for him. Hopefully he can produce a Sei-Mei-level H&G before the season ends.

So another 4 weeks for the final competition of this season.

 

[4everchan]

Yuzuru hasn't dropped the 4T for the 4S because of more points - it's very likely related to his injury. End of last season he had a Lisfranc fracture in his left foot, which was mostly caused by training the 4T. The injury was bad enough to nearly threaten to end his career (I think he said somewhere that going into WC2016 - or after the LP there - he thought it would be his last competition?). Even after it was clear he could continue to skate, there were talks about skipping this season. He basically had to relearn his jumps from singles, and a lot of program choreo had to be adjusted. Given that the 4T caused the injury, even if it is healed now, I'd think they're going back on the 4T to avoid this happening again. Hence, the 4S3T. Even if it's frustrating, I think he should very much stick to that. I'd rather have him do 2Ss than not skate at all.

(I'm not trying to lecture someone or anything, before that's the next remark thrown because I'm a Yuzu fan. I just wanted to explain what I think is the reasoning behind his layout)

look... i am sympathetic... i know yuzu came through a lot... but so did Nathan... hip surgery is huge...

so since you have Sarah's daughter with you, can we agree that we don't need to talk injuries because all of skaters have them.. jason is injured... misha is too... nam is recovering a major growth spurt, and kevin... talk about the hips...

all of these athletes put their bodies through hell and they all deserve our respect ALL OF THEM...

i think it's not cool that these guys put themselves through all this training post injury, and that somehow, their achievements are not recognized... can you imagine going through major hip surgery at 17 or healing a foot injury at what? 21???

I have had to rebuild my elbow, triceps and forearm after injury-surgery of a freak accident... and yes... i am a musician who needs his arm... it took me a year to regain my power and dexterity... i did if because i love my art... because i couldn't live with it...

these guys skate through pain, all of them, for the same reason... let's celebrate all of them and not make a shopping list of who has been going through what... they are all bruised and they all need our love...

 

[Li'Kitsu]

That makes sense. It also explains why this season started out messy for him. He didn't seem like himself at his first grand prix event but he's been getting better from there. I would also rather him pop a jump than not skate at all, his skating is so wonderful to watch and this season I know others don't like this program but it is my favorite he has ever done.

Well Yuzu always kind of fails his first competitions, he can do that very well without an injury too but yes, he wasn't at his best at GPF this season, and that's way unusual. The blessing in disguise behind that might be that he might peak at WC

 

[asiacheetah]

Are you serious?

They totally are. Nathan fans seem to be seeing things no one else sees. According to them all the judges are wrong and biased and being robbed in PCS scores while Patrick and now Yuzu are just being inflated because...reasons.

 

[xeyra]

but he needed to add another 3s on end of this, and I don't know why not

I'm pretty sure he was going for the 2S-1lo-4S, but probably didn't have enough speed and so gave up. Shoulda have done the 3S instead but I think he wanted the 4S and didn't think alternatively.