2017 Four Continents Men FS

[labgoat]

2015 4CC when Polina Edmunds won.

I remember Jim McKay of ABC saying just before Tai Babilonia and Randy Gardner won in 1979 - "It's been 29 years since an American pair won the pairs world championship - Karol & Peter Kennedy in 1950." We'll, it's now been 38 years since that win...hope I see another someday... Only two US pairs that ever won.

 

[Sorrento]

I for one love it. It will hopefully ensure that top skaters can't get saved by judges or break well ahead of the pack when they give flawed skates and get high PCS to compensate for it. For the first time in a while, I'm optimistic the Olympic champion will have technically strong skates will "good or better-than-good artistry" and people get to witness the technical explosion within the men's discipline.

Aren't we witnessing that explosion already since when- previous season? As per predicting Olympics results- still a far cry.

 

[Ares]

Am I alone in thinking Kevin looks kind of like a hobbit or Keebler elf?

Like real life Manga character, lol.

 

[Mrs. P]

I remember Jim McKay of ABC saying just before Tai Babilonia and Randy Gardner won in 1979 - "It's been 29 years since an American pair won the pairs world championship - Karol & Peter Kennedy in 1950." We'll, it's now been 38 years since that win...hope I see another someday... Only two US pairs that ever won.

So random thing -- I actually got to meet Peter Kennedy in 2015. He was at an event I was at and he was really friendly!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Aren't we witnessing that explosion already since when- previous season? As per predicting Olympics results- still a far cry.

Sorry, by people I mean those who aren't figure skating fans but check in on figure skating every Olympics as casual fans.

 

[Mathman]

But WHY would him skating cleaning bump his PCS score to 90? Jumping passes are reflected in the TES. How does skating cleanly reflect in his skating skills, transitions, performance, interpretation, etc?

It just does. Ours is not to reason why.

 

[Mathman]

I disagree. If this were purely art, I would agree but it is a sport where stragety can now make the difference between winning and loosing....

Under the new system, its all about the points....I hope we dont get to the point where the coaches wear NFL headsets, sending info to an earbug in the skater's ear, but if a skater can think on their feet, so be it.

In Sonja Henie's first Olympic Games, at age 11, she had to stop several times during her program, skate over to her coach, and ask what she was supposed to do next.

Anyway, in the free skate "thinking on your feet" usually gets you tangled up in Zayak violations. See Mariah Bell's free skate at the 2016 U.S. Nationals, for instance. Or course that's better than not thinking on your feet, aka Oda-ing.

Here is my favorite figure skating quote (Shizuka Arakawa): "Having my mind go blank was actually a good thing. When I came to, I was halfway through my program."

I actually think that it is more a question of having (and practicing) a backup plan in case plan A doesn't work out. Michelle Kwan used to have two endings to her programs, depending on whether she hit her opening triple-triple attempt or not. In the short program, it used to be common for a man to plan 4T+3T and 3Lz*, and then if the quad combo didn't happen, do 4T and 3Lz+3T* instead. Plan B actually scored more points because of the bonus and the only risk was the minimal one that the judges might say you didn't do any steps before the quad. (But they never say that.)

There is a psychological negative, though. If you expect to fail on Plan A, even to the extent of practicing a Plan B for when you do fail, then fail you probably will. Much better, IMHO, to say, "I got this."

 

[Ice Dance]

It's scary.

I'm sure it's been discussed earlier, but 117 pages. Whew! I just can't wade through it all. Just wanted to return to our pre-SP discussion for a second.

So Nathan's spin levels at 4CCs . . .

SP--all 4s.
LP--all 4s.

Answer to the question of whether he had really improved his spins prior to Nationals: Yes.
And after Nationals as well.

 

[4everchan]

I'm sure it's been discussed earlier, but 117 pages. Whew! I just can't wade through it all. Just wanted to return to our pre-SP discussion for a second.

So Nathan's spin levels at 4CCs . . .

SP--all 4s.
LP--all 4s.

Answer to the question of whether he had really improved his spins prior to Nationals: Yes.
And after Nationals as well.

lol... with all the turmoil, i had forgotten about this... good for him... Patrick fixed his levels mostly as well

 

[KatGrace1925]

I honestly think what Nathan has next is a 4T-4T combo. I could see it happening. When they drop a jump pass, this layout would be insanely awesome:

4T-4T
4Lz-3T
4F
4S
4L
3A-1Lo-3F
3Lz

 

[4everchan]

I honestly think what Nathan has next is a 4T-4T combo. I could see it happening. When they drop a jump pass, this layout would be insanely awesome:

4T-4T
4Lz-3T
4F
4S
4L
3A-1Lo-3F
3Lz

this is all hypothetical but I doubt he will do 4L.... if he wants his hips to survive, he shouldn't.. He could simply repeat his 4Lz, that the most sensible thing for him...

 

[KatGrace1925]

this is all hypothetical but I doubt he will do 4L.... if he wants his hips to survive, he shouldn't.. He could simply repeat his 4Lz, that the most sensible thing for him...

I meant that to be a second 4Lz, just mised typing the z on my phone. I also doubt he will learn the 4L, he has stated he is not currently training it and with what he has he doesn't need it.

 

[CoyoteChris]

In Sonja Henie's first Olympic Games, at age 11, she had to stop several times during her program, skate over to her coach, and ask what she was supposed to do next.

Anyway, in the free skate "thinking on your feet" usually gets you tangled up in Zayak violations. See Mariah Bell's free skate at the 2016 U.S. Nationals, for instance. Or course that's better than not thinking on your feet, aka Oda-ing.

Here is my favorite figure skating quote (Shizuka Arakawa): "Having my mind go blank was actually a good thing. When I came to, I was halfway through my program."

I actually think that it is more a question of having (and practicing) a backup plan in case plan A doesn't work out. Michelle Kwan used to have two endings to her programs, depending on whether she hit her opening triple-triple attempt or not. In the short program, it used to be common for a man to plan 4T+3T and 3Lz*, and then if the quad combo didn't happen, do 4T and 3Lz+3T* instead. Plan B actually scored more points because of the bonus and the only risk was the minimal one that the judges might say you didn't do any steps before the quad. (But they never say that.)

There is a psychological negative, though. If you expect to fail on Plan A, even to the extent of practicing a Plan B for when you do fail, then fail you probably will. Much better, IMHO, to say, "I got this."

I would agree with you if the skater does well on auto-pilot and relies on muscle memory and being in the zone as it were. And if complex "if/then" plans put on added stress. But for those sharp cookies that can think three pool shots ahead, or remember every card played in a blackjack deck, I think it can work out. I think Hanyu is a sharp cookie. And I think the very real psychological negative would not effect him. I cant remember why I am even in the basement sometimes....
but I bet this guy could handle it...
That is not to say a Mariah is not clever because she put in too many doubles in a skate....it is very hard to be an actor, an athlete, and a card sharp at the same time....but a very few can do it....

 

[sheetz]

I honestly think what Nathan has next is a 4T-4T combo. I could see it happening. When they drop a jump pass, this layout would be insanely awesome:

4T-4T
4Lz-3T
4F
4S
4L
3A-1Lo-3F
3Lz

Make the 3 jump combo with 3Lz instead of 3A and it would be easier with the same BV.

4T-4T
4Lz-3T
4F
4S
4Lz
3A
3Lz-1Lo-3F

 

[xeyra]

Make the 3 jump combo with 3Lz instead of 3A and it would be easier with the same BV.

4T-4T
4Lz-3T
4F
4S
4Lz
3A
3Lz-1Lo-3F

It would be easier and have the same BV but in terms of GOE it wouldn't be factored at 1 like the combo on the 3A would be. That's why Yuzuru's combos on 3A are such point getters for him.

BTW, I was re-watching FS videos of the top guys (those that can still be found!) and I'm curious whether Nathan's last 3A was something he was doing in practice run-throughs or if he also YOLO'ed it because he knew he might need that extra BV against Yuzuru's earlier score. Then we'd have not one but two gutsy no-chill YOLO'ed 3As in the last two FS in solidarity to Shoma, rip his Axels :sad21:

 

[KatGrace1925]

It would be easier and have the same BV but in terms of GOE it wouldn't be factored at 1 like the combo on the 3A would be. That's why Yuzuru's combos on 3A are such point getters for him.

BTW, I was re-watching FS videos of the top guys (those that can still be found!) and I'm curious whether Nathan's last 3A was something he was doing in practice run-throughs or if he also YOLO'ed it because he knew he might need that extra BV against Yuzuru's earlier score. Then we'd have not one but two gutsy no-chill YOLO'ed 3As in the last two FS in solidarity to Shoma, rip his Axels :sad21:

It was on Nathan's upgraded layout that Jackie Wong released. It seems Raf and Nathan decided to that they wanted to win this and they had a layout plan to do so.

 

[xeyra]

It was on Nathan's upgraded layout that Jackie Wong released. It seems Raf and Nathan decided to that they wanted to win this and they had a layout plan to do so.

Thanks. I didn't see that layout. Do you have a link?

Edited: Nvm, I found it. So he planned to do 3A-1Lo-3F initially, but with the stepout he had to improvise into the -2T-2T he ended up doing.

 

[sheetz]

It would be easier and have the same BV but in terms of GOE it wouldn't be factored at 1 like the combo on the 3A would be. That's why Yuzuru's combos on 3A are such point getters for him.

True. I guess he could practice it both ways so that if he missed the 3A he could still do the combo with the 3Lz.

 

[Art&Sport]

I sincerely believe my question was done in the way of enlightening some things. Scores will always be discussed and dissected so I can say for certain the pointless thing is arguing for people to accept scores at face value and hoping people won't make so much noise. As an example I was a very passionate defender of Adelina when Yuna's very vocal fans were so adamant their queen won and I definitely enjoyed the banter. Nathan's uber fans should also have that same generosity in receiving criticisms for their favorite skater unless they think their arguments rest on shaky grounds and are as vacuous as Chen's LP.

I think the issue is that you are not trying to "enlighten things," as much as you are interested in making erroneous claims that although you may believe in, others do not see it the same as you. There's no point discussing anything if we don't agree on basic facts and terminology first, and if you are coming from a limited perception point of view regarding the history of the sport, and of Nathan Chen's background as a skater. If you feel invested in another skater who Nathan Chen rivals, then you may not wish to recognize Nathan's positive strengths and attributes.

 

[mirai4life]

what the hell is this 4T-4T talk....
you need a flawless flow/speed out of the first 4T for this to even be a thinking. i dont see that in nathan's 4t.
did any skater even mentioned about attempting it because...
:dev2: