2017 Worlds Short Dance

[SarahSynchro]

i thought your last name was poje

You and your logic. Shhhhhh, I'm trying to remain anonymous on the internet here!

 

[atsumiri]

it's so funny to read the thread when you don't care about Result)) tbh i don't really follow Ice Dance :laugh 2:

my favorite is
PAPADAKIS / CIZERON
WEAVER / POJE
STEPANOVA / BUKIN

today I really like CHOCK/BATES's SD .... but is it just me, or they were kind of slow? :scratch3:
Tessa and Scott were good. really good) :thumbsup:

 

[Ares]

Though Chock/Bates hit every music accents, they need to fill in the middle because the music completely overpowers them

What do you mean by "fill in the middle"? English is not my first languagem

 

[ancientpeas]

not to be snarky but no... they cannot fall 3 times in the FD and still win... this is not singles

Also not Patrick at nationals. No driving the Zamboni while eating a hotdog is going to get you 200 points anywhere but at nationals Patrick.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Hellooooo, I have Evgenia Med on the line, she has something to say about winning all the time...

Yeah, i forgot But we will see who will have more WC titles between them. I predict P/C will have more in the end...

 

[4everchan]

I remember reading somewhere that P/C are not sure if they will continue after the 2018 Olympics, so next season might be their last. I know they are young, but 4 years of intense training while fighting to be at the top, especially if they feel they are sort of restricted in their artistic capacity by the technical rules (or this is the vibe I get from reading the interviews), is not an easy thing to commit too. Not everybody is Aliona Savchenko

well i could see them do lots of shows... they would be able to do whatever they want for sure... perhaps they may take a year off or two and come back for 2022... not an unseen thing for children of their age

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Crazy dance event where technical ability/levels made the diff.

V/M were electrifying and that performance and lead should hopefully silence those who say they're past their prime or we're bound to lose. There is the FD of course but I can only expect them to expand their lead at this point... they are really projecting confidence. I think they were slightly over scored on the twizzles and she had an almost undetectable skid (of course, the Russian feed picked up on both lol). But they hit their levels and fully committed to that performance.

Pleased to see W/P and H/D get personal bests... especially great to see H/D get credit for technical. Sad for G/P who got hosed on PCS.

And look! Both Russian teams in the top 10! Which is great - especially when certain "expert" individuals thought Russia would be out of the top 10.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Well, there were two American teams on the podium last year...

In America E: That of course can happen again, i was saying only if it is a close call for a medal, it wouldn't. And 3-9 ranking teams in ice dance are very close

 

[TontoK]

Random thoughts:

My adopted Georgian team finished dead last. Oh, well, someone has to finish last. I hope they continue to work hard and improve. I still have Moris to root for in the men's free.

I'm sad about the continuing state of Russian ice dance. Best team is 8th. In its own way, this is as sad as the US pairs debacle.

Viewers of the early Free Dance will be treated to the glorious spectacle of Alissa Agafonova, who is universally recognized by right-thinking people as the most beautiful woman in sports.

 

[tulosai]

The problem with dance in general is it's a lot harder to understand technically than the other disciplines, and even the most devoted and educated fan isn't always going to be able to make sense of what happened without extreme slow motion replays- and even with the extreme slow motion replays you really need to know a lot about the specific rules, about key points, about edges, and be able to see these clearly which also isn't always the easiest with the angles available to us.

People saying P/C didn't make mistakes are very wrong- they did, and a few of them, they just weren't visible to the naked eye in real time. To the naked eye only the twizzle error was visible. They also made errors on the Partial Steps and the No Touch steps, and that's why they got level 3 on those. To even their coaches, in real time, those errors probably weren't obvious because it really is quite simply just one of the two of them not having the correct edge at the correct second or even milisecond when they are supposed to be holding that edge. That's it, level down. Quite obviously this doesn't make sense to the casual viewer, and like I said it's usually not even going to be obvious to the very experienced viewer who's gone to great lengths to educate themselves in real time.

Plain and simple, most of the difference in scores among the top teams today is plainly accounted for by looking at who actually hit their levels and therefore made the fewest mistakes. One can squabble over the PCS if one is inclined to do so, but many of the people who seem to be complaining seem to be complaining just generally or even about the TES because of what they saw in real time. What you see in real time is a much smaller part of the picture in ice dance than in the other disciplines.

 

[4everchan]

Shushhhh now... this country needs more figure skating fans. Next you'll be telling them about the evil plan to get Osmond and Chan to skate ID together so we can win in 2022.

actually i want dylan and patrick to skate pairs together

 

[Skater Boy]

I never would have thought H/D would be in third and the Shibs in 5th. I'm glad W/P made the final flight.

Except for 1st they are all very close. I can see anyone winning the silver at this point.

ACK.. no I was thinking it was 6 teams but it's 5. Darn.

I am not sure why the judges were so enamoured with H and D and C and B. Both are good but did not deserve to be 3 and 4th respectively. I respect the levels but neither really were as polished or "organic" as some of the other teams and there was certainly room to knock their pcs lower than Gilles and Porier. So while the Shibsibs were a bit off on levels as consistent with the rest off the championships the Americans seem to be a bit lucky with the judging. Other than maybe in pairs perhaps. They seem to be getting the benefit of the doubt all the time from Chen to Chen to Brown to ice dance.

 

[yuna13]

glad about W/P 6th place.

they had a tough season and they performed really well today. finger crossed for them and G/P amazing tango.

 

[WeakAnkles]

The problem with dance in general is it's a lot harder to understand technically than the other disciplines, and even the most devoted and educated fan isn't always going to be able to make sense of what happened without extreme slow motion replays- and even with the extreme slow motion replays you really need to know a lot about the specific rules, about key points, about edges, and be able to see these clearly which also isn't always the easiest with the angles available to us.

People saying P/C didn't make mistakes are very wrong- they did, and a few of them, they just weren't visible to the naked eye in real time. To the naked eye only the twizzle error was visible. They also made errors on the Partial Steps and the No Touch steps, and that's why they got level 3 on those. To even their coaches, in real time, those errors probably weren't obvious because it really is quite simply just one of the two of them not having the correct edge at the correct second or even milisecond when they are supposed to be holding that edge. That's it, level down. Quite obviously this doesn't make sense to the casual viewer, and like I said it's usually not even going to be obvious to the very experienced viewer who's gone to great lengths to educate themselves in real time.

Plain and simple, most of the difference in scores among the top teams today is plainly accounted for by looking at who actually hit their levels and therefore made the fewest mistakes. One can squabble over the PCS if one is inclined to do so, but many of the people who seem to be complaining seem to be complaining just generally or even about the TES because of what they saw in real time. What you see in real time is a much smaller part of the picture in ice dance than in the other disciplines.

Spot on. Which is why you also hear us ubers saying "I need to see the protocols" so often. Because you can't trust that sound and image are synced in a live internet feed. Because we aren't given the ability to slow down and see edges, etc.

When a competition is this close, it can be very frustrating not to have the ability to see these things. But it does make for an exciting competition.

 

[Sabrina]

I didn't watch V/M program, but I am sad G/P are lowballed big time. How do you hit/loose levels? Do they use a protractor to measure the angles the blade makes on the ice, then use a stop watch to asses the timings? I am not even trying to understand GOE, just simple bare TES. Those judges must have a degree in geometry.

 

[TMC]

Shibs' twizzles in person are something else! That is all.

 

[nolangoh]

What do you mean by "fill in the middle"? English is not my first languagem

It's the part between the music accents. They made many poses on the music accents (the down beat/ heavy drums etc.), but the rest of their choreography cannot catch up and maintain on the same level of the intensity of music.

https://youtu.be/MF5YIpKKpHA?t=23s

If we watch their program again, they began with the lift, which is good, it was a difficult position, thus matching the wild music. But after that, during the Pattern steps and Partial steps their movements look "small" compared to the big heavy metal music. When the music changes to hip hop, again the beginning was very good, they pose and hit the accents, but then during the Not-touching steps (I feel that) their energy and "wildness" is not up to that of the music. That makes me feel a gap between the music and their commitment/energy/presentation etc. Thus I would like them to "fill in" that gap, maybe with more energy and bigger movements.

But I would like to clarify that I like this program and they did great, just that there is a little bit of a moment that needs some refinement, given that they are skating to such a BIG and heavy music it becomes quite obvious.

 

[Skater Boy]

Weapo won't do well; they are not in the final flight and with their main rivals getting a boost - Chock and Bates and Hubbell and Donahoe well things don't look good. I just don't know how the Americans got so lucky - 3 to 5th considering we knew 1st and 2nd were a given. EAsily even the 9th place team could have been third. The significance are not only they the top teams after the big two they fill out the final flight and will get the scoring benefit making it harder for Weapo, the Italians, GP or BS to surpass them. Well we know what nation the bronze medallist will come from at the very least.

 

[Ares]

Held down. Wuzzrobbed. New, even kitschier dress for Piper. Good twizzles.

I think that Piper / Paul did well, I think they should be above Bobrova / Solovyov. I have to say though that I've seen them doing better blues section in the past. Piper was kinda flat (even literally on flat edge) in the beginning of it and they did not get super, hyper extensions and deep edges here. I'd like more glide as welll. They seemed quite tentative / slow-ish here I noticed. I think both G/P & W/P were held down. I've seen spark in Weaver / Poje that I have not seen since 2015 actually.

The differences after SD are small after huge gap between 1st and 2nd so almost everything is possible for these two even though we will not see them in final flight. How we would place and score comes down to personal preference in part and it's absolutely fine. There are 3 people on tech panel and 9 judges so it evens out to some consensus that we should handle and accept together. It's fun to read other impressions either way.

 

[LeReveur]

The short answer is that there is a difference between "very good" and "truly great."

V/M are the only great team currently competing.

I'm very glad for H/D; I like their skating very much. I'm in the minority among the American camp... they're my favorite American team.

For me, this is a really stacked time in ice dance. I really like 9 of the top 10 teams and even with the one I don't care for, Chock and Bates, I thought they had some good performances of this SD earlier in the season... but I found their effort today to be slow, too languid for the music, and different from earlier in the season in a bad way.

I'm an American who generally likes Hubbell and Donohue the most of the current American teams, so I join you in my happiness for them. While their SD is not one for the hall of fame, I think it got better and better throughout the season, and yes- the costume change does make a difference!

Some other thoughts:
Papadakis and Cizeron have a free dance I think I like just as much as the ones from past years, but this SD is maybe their weakest program I have seen in these three seasons of them being at or near the top. I just don't find the two halves of the program to mesh or work together at all.

The Shibutanis came across as slow compared to some teams, and I just haven't found the program to be effective at any point in the season even though I think the actual concept could work very well.

Weaver and Poje did a solid job pulling off a look that isn't their norm, and I believe they should be proud of a high score even though they could have done even better.

I think teams 8-10 were more interesting to watch than some above them, and I am curious to know from informed members what Stepanova/Bukin lack for them to be receiving TES marks quite a ways back from the other top 10 teams. I really liked their choreography and execution, and I also thought Bobrova/Soloviev and Gilles/Poirier performed better than some teams above them.

All in all, this was probably my favorite discipline at this year's worlds in terms of the short programs.

Wouldn't it be something if all three medaling teams are ones based in Montreal?