Patrick Chan | Page 490 | Golden Skate

Patrick Chan

ultraworld said:
Hi everyone! I would ask if It could be possible for Patrick to go next season for a four-quad long program. We didn' t expect him to work on the quad flip, He could amaze us with a quad more in the FP to fully take advantage of this new element
Click to expand...

well, let's see... patrick said he wouldn't add the 4f last year... ;) and now he is ;)
and he has always said that 3 quads was the maximum for the LP but who knows... maybe he will change his mind again ;)

the greatest news : patrick is no longer the guy with the lowest base value in the SP...... he will do either the 4s or 4f in the SP i am CONVINCED.... and that will put him right in the mix.... actually if he does the 4F in the Sp his BV will be higher than the last two World Champions :)
 
This is the season for Patrick to go flat out, full steam ahead, and no holds barred in his technical attempts.

Bring on the 4T, 4S, and 4F! If now now, when? Damn the Torpedo, full speed ahead!

As long as he breathes well through it all, before, during and after.

Go Patrick! And be happy and healthy.
 
4everchan said:
well, let's see... patrick said he wouldn't add the 4f last year... ;) and now he is ;)
and he has always said that 3 quads was the maximum for the LP but who knows... maybe he will change his mind again ;)

the greatest news : patrick is no longer the guy with the lowest base value in the SP...... he will do either the 4s or 4f in the SP i am CONVINCED.... and that will put him right in the mix.... actually if he does the 4F in the Sp his BV will be higher than the last two World Champions :)
Click to expand...

Do you think he might add the 4F to the SP? I can see it being used in the FS but adding that same element in the SP is a very high risk on Olympic season. I think it more likely he'd add the 4S in the SP as he's been talking about and then the 4F in the FS. Also, might he go for four quads in the FS if he adds the 4F? Seems unlikely, at this stage, to add a new quad in the repertoire and not go for an extra one in the layout.

Because I am a BV nerd, I've been calculating some variations in the terms of layout with the 4F but it all depends on whether he'd do 3 or 4 quads and how he'd place his combos.

For example, a 4-quad layout with 4F in the FS might go this way (let me know if you think, based on his past layouts, if he might choose some other variations):
4F 4S 4T3T // 3A1Lo3S 4T(2T) 3A(2T) 3Lz 3F (or 3Lo) - BV 102.28 or 102.06. That would be a huge upgrade from the 94.25 BV of his Worlds planned layout, and combined with his GOEs and PCS, if he hit all of that, he would score around Yuzuru's current range, without a doubt (222-228).

Combined with a SP with 4T3T 4S // 3A (48.05), we'd get a total BV rounding the 150.

If he were to keep to a 3-quad layout with the 4F, which seems unlikely if one is bringing a new quad, anyway, but for argument's sake, he might go for something like 4F 4S 3A1Lo3S // 4T3T 3A 3Lz3T 3F 3Lo (BV 99.98), but in this case I think he'd bring the 4F to the SP since the FS layout upgrade wouldn't be that high.

With the 4F in his SP as well... likely 4T3T 4F // 3A - 49.85.

I know BV talk is mostly useless, unless one delivers at the date, but it is exciting to think of Patrick deciding to slap-down all these BV crazy kids at the 'old age' of 26. "Wait 'til I join your maths game, boys!".
 
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^^ BV talk is only helpful in the off season and in Patrick's case, cannot be just done based on potential content but mostly from knowing his long 10+ years of competing. There are things Patrick prefers and others that he won't even consider. So all of this is to be taken with a grain of salt.
I wouldn't be surprised it Patrick were to be just at ease with the 4F as he is with the 4S. He has tried the 4S once in his SP at WTT. He hasn't said anything about keeping two quads in the SP or not... but it seems likely.

For fans who have known Patrick for a long time, his 3F has always been his best jump. Patrick, unlike Javier and Yuzuru who are more comfortable with edge jumps, is more comfortable with toe pick assisted jumps. That is why his 4t-3t is so impressive. His 3lz used to be a money jump for him, just as much as his 3f. For a long time, he didn't include quads in his programs and repeated the toe pick triples. So, if he were to master a 4flip, why not include it in the SP? There is no point keeping the 4S if he feels better with the 4F and as I have already explained, the 1.8 BV advantage from 4F to 4S gives him an incentive as a fall on the element would hurt him less and be equivalent to a 3lz + 2 GOE which scored him over 102 points at wc2017. The only thing : it will depend on steps. Patrick will certainly not cheat by not having the required preceding steps on this solo quad in the SP. He learned the 4S including steps for that specific reason. We will see if he does the same with his 4F.

As for the LP : I have explained already the advantages of the 3 different quads when it comes to the need to do combos which he could now normally include after the second half mark and have them on less risky elements. However, Patrick tends to prefer to do the biggest combo. So, that remains to be seen. Also, who knows : is the 4S forever and ever after? Patrick could certainly decide to repeat the 4t, and include just the 4F. I'd laugh if he were to repeat both toe pick quads and ditch the 4S altogether. I think his 4S is beautiful but who knows what the states of things may dictate the layout?

I personally think that if Patrick were to do 4 quads, he may let go of one of the 3A. His repeated jumps could then be 4t and 3lz. A while back, he did the 1/2 loop combo with the lutz and it was a very beautiful combo so in light of that, it may be better for him to drop the second 3A and to try that lutz combo later on.

So I don't think one can do BV maths with Patrick without knowing his history. For instance, I wouldn't be surprised if he were to eliminate altogether double jumps from his programs with repeating the 3t, giving him his 4t-3t and perhaps a 3lz-3t, a combo he has used so many times over the years.

Knowing Patrick, I would also be surprised if he were to not include all types of jumps. So I would think that if he were to do 4flip in the LP, he would place a 3Loop somewhere rather than the 3flip.

There are a lot of subtleties here that only belong to Patrick. Patrick is not a math wizard. He even zayaked himself in 2015... not really thinking about the rules. So in that sense, I would think that either Marina does the maths for him but mostly, I think that he is not going to squeeze his base value to the maximum at first but see how a program feels iike a true program, not a jump fest,.... if he then feels that there is enough of a program, he may add in content if the program is not compromised.

This is Patrick Chan we are talking about, not just one of the quadsters and yes, he may change his mind but he has been a strong advocate of the 3 quad layout.

In that case, you need to update your maths/layout because you have only given him a repeated 3A... easy fix would be to think that he would repeat twice the 3t for juicy combos but as i previously explained he could do what I would call an upgraded version of his pre quad programs :

In those programs, he used to repeat the 3A and the 3Lz.

Let me give you an example based on the possible options for him that would be vintage and I won't care about the order of the jumps so much.

4f, 4s, 3a-3t, 4t, 3a, 3lz-1/2-3s 3loop 3lz

to make this even more vintage, he could start with the 3a-3t ... of course, I am kidding here but why would he not repeat 3a and 3lz if he doesn't repeat quads?

I don't think Patrick is joining any math game... He knows what Nathan is capable of doing. i think he just feels his body is able to produce more content and remain healthy so he is going for it. Something that probably was already planned and it explains why he has remained healthy throughout his career unlike most skaters.
 
4everchan, I'm on mobile so I can't like your post right now :) but I trust your knowledge of Patrick and his history so I now believe he might just do the 4F in both SP and FS. I'm looking forward to next season and calculating BV then.
 
Great analysis, 4everchan!

I think he'll most likely keep the 4S seeing as he seems really proud of the progress he made with it through last season and he even said it was better than his 4T. Who knows, he may even surprise us (and himself) with a 4F that turns out to be better than both of his other quads (and now I'm hoping because of what you said about his 3F)! :p
 
4everchan said:
4f, 4s, 3a-3t, 4t, 3a, 3lz-1/2-3s 3loop 3lz
Click to expand...

This is a good 3-quad layout that would be 96.08 in BV, though if he, for example, placed the -1Lo-3S combo on the 3A, the GOE modifier would be higher.

However, this layout would require him to drop his 4T3T combo. Do you see that happen in the FS?

Actually, in that earlier FS 3-quad option in my post, I made a mistake because Patrick can repeat the 3T there, so that should have been:
4F 4S 3A1Lo3S // 4T3T 3A 3Lz3T 3F 3Lo (BV 99.98)

I'll edit to correct.

Alternatively, with repeat 3Lz:
4F 4S 3A1Lo3S // 4T3T 3A 3Lz2T 3Lo 3Lz (BV 97.45)
4F 4S 3A1Lo3S // 4T3T 3A 3Lz2T 3F 3Lz (BV 97.67)
 
xeyra said:
This is a good 3-quad layout that would be 96.08 in BV, though if he, for example, placed the -1Lo-3S combo on the 3A, the GOE modifier would be higher.

However, this layout would require him to drop his 4T3T combo. Do you see that happen in the FS?

Actually, in that earlier FS 3-quad option in my post, I made a mistake because Patrick can repeat the 3T there, so that should have been:
4F 4S 3A1Lo3S // 4T3T 3A 3Lz3T 3F 3Lo (BV 99.98)

I'll edit to correct.

Alternatively, with repeat 3Lz:
4F 4S 3A1Lo3S // 4T3T 3A 3Lz2T 3Lo 3Lz (BV 97.45)
4F 4S 3A1Lo3S // 4T3T 3A 3Lz2T 3F 3Lz (BV 97.67)
Click to expand...

i agree that putting the 1/2 loop combo is more rewarding on the 3a... however, i have never seen him land it.... though there are several examples of Patrick landing it, and in the second half with the 3lz as opening jump...

this is why i said...patrick is a funny guy we won't know until he decides for us to know... :) he sometimes has some affinities with some layouts and jumps that will not change despite getting +1 point or GOE modifier or what not ;)

and no... i am pretty sure that he will not drop the 2 quad toes, and if he did, i am sure he would not drop the 4t-3t which he is famous for... even when people told him he should do the 4t 3a // 3lz-3t in SP to enhance the BV he didn't do it and kept the 4t-3t.

Patrick has never explored much with backloading either. I do not think it's something he will do since his skating is extremely physical but if he shocks everyone and asks for an "easier" program to be on par with the other quadsters, who knows how much more stamina he would have in the last minute of a program.

Music will be a big factor too... Patrick really caters jumps to his music like the 3S in the Chopin or the 3Loop in the Journey.... the lutzes are often also perfectly placed on highlights.... nobody else does it quite like him. This sort of refinement is no longer as much appreciated as how many quads get landed....

I mean, if Patrick came over for tea, we would talk about many things and I'd be so curious about how he sees layouts and what is his relationship with each jump. But yeah... as far as I know, he is busy quad flipping ;)
 
i am running too... gotta celebrate.... Happy Saint-Jean-Baptiste if any of you lurkers are also from Quebec like me ;)



GO PATRICK!!!!
 
Omigosh! I just posted a reply that somehow didn't get posted! Here it is again...

Had a crazy weekend... My Canadian SIL is moving 3 hours away from me, so I went to visit her and my adorable baby nephew...

4everchan said:
i am running too... gotta celebrate.... Happy Saint-Jean-Baptiste if any of you lurkers are also from Quebec like me ;) GO PATRICK!!!!
Click to expand...

Hope you had a wonderful holiday weekend!


ultraworld said:
Hi everyone! I would ask if It could be possible for Patrick to go next season for a four-quad long program. We didn' t expect him to work on the quad flip, He could amaze us with a quad more in the FP to fully take advantage of this new element
Click to expand...

If he does a four-quad program, that would be doing the "impossible", because last year he was quoted saying that four quads would be impossible for him. But of course that was before he trained with Nathan Chen...

But he has come so far since January 2016, from one quad in the LP to now three quads in the LP and two in the SP! So I wouldn't be surprised at all if he did it!


4everchan said:
lol.. that's a fair point... none of us knows japanese :)

vivley did you use a translator?
Click to expand...

Yes, I used Google Translate, although it may give a more accurate translation in Chinese, French, or some other language.

The part about the 4F is in the 4th paragraph of the article, where it says he's thinking about putting it in the long program.


4everchan said:
I mean, if Patrick came over for tea, we would talk about many things and I'd be so curious about how he sees layouts and what is his relationship with each jump. But yeah... as far as I know, he is busy quad flipping ;)
Click to expand...

I would love to join your tea! :agree:


------------------------------

In the meantime, while we were all obsessing over layouts, BVs and quads, Patrick was having fun driving around Michigan in his GTR!

https://twitter.com/4everPatrick96/status/879162274375749632

Ahem, dare I say it? Patrick lied about selling off his cars (I knew he wasn't going to do it, anyway). But this is his hobby and what he does for fun on hot summer days, so I'm not surprised at all.

Actually, I'm glad he has a hobby because it shows him to be a well-rounded person! :agree:
 
vivley said:
Omigosh! I just posted a reply that somehow didn't get posted! Here it is again...

Had a crazy weekend... My Canadian SIL is moving 3 hours away from me, so I went to visit her and my adorable baby nephew...



Hope you had a wonderful holiday weekend!




If he does a four-quad program, that would be doing the "impossible", because last year he was quoted saying that four quads would be impossible for him. But of course that was before he trained with Nathan Chen...

But he has come so far since January 2016, from one quad in the LP to now three quads in the LP and two in the SP! So I wouldn't be surprised at all if he did it!




Yes, I used Google Translate, although it may give a more accurate translation in Chinese, French, or some other language.

The part about the 4F is in the 4th paragraph of the article, where it says he's thinking about putting it in the long program.




I would love to join your tea! :agree:


------------------------------

In the meantime, while we were all obsessing over layouts, BVs and quads, Patrick was having fun driving around Michigan in his GTR!

https://twitter.com/4everPatrick96/status/879162274375749632

Ahem, dare I say it? Patrick lied about selling off his cars (I knew he wasn't going to do it anyway). But this is his hobby and what he does for fun on hot summer days, so I'm not surprised at all.

Actually, I'm glad he has a hobby because it shows him to be a well-rounded person. :agree:
Click to expand...


i guess Louis is the one who got a date with Patrick after all... sigh :rofl:
 
second thoughts

1) well we knew where he was as well ;) in his car :laugh2:
2) i am thinking ice dancers are looking for a new partner after the games... Patrick at 26, would enter prime time in ice dance age and would be a good prospect for Beijing LOL
 
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