2018 US Championships Sr. Ladies SP

[TCAngel18]

Bradie's PCS are too high, Nationals inflation or no. Just because she rotates het triples does not make her a watchable skater. She has a loooong way to go there and considering she is almost 20, it might not even be something that is reasonably attainable. Whoever called her a more boring Kimmie Meissner is right on point. O remember Bradie being just as consistent two seasons ago and even turning in a stellar Nationals performance. But it wasn't exciting then and it's not exciting now.

I am quite surprised to see Wagner being dropped here. Even though HHCC is pretty stale, it was well-performed and PCS have always been Ashley's saving grace. The fact that it wasn't here is not subtle and not a coincidence. She will have to earn that Olympic spot this time.

I have been stanning Mirai for over a decade now and just once I wish it wasn't so frustrating! Gorgeous 3As all week and even in warm-up and then the one when it counted was a bit of a mess. Sigh. But I am cautiously optimistic about her chances to make the team. I just hope she can finally have her moment and deliver a great performance.

Thankfully we have USFS' awkward politicking to discuss, because I don't know how a lot of those girls even made it to Nationals. It was sad.

I will say Angela, Polina, and Amber were all bright spots out there. Even Mariah was rather enjoyable.

Agreed.

 

[TCAngel18]

What a splatfest of a competition! What has been happening with US girls in skating?

Braddie is a lock for the Olympics in my opinion.

Mirai just needs to not fall and she's got her ticket as well. The judges are obviously supporting her because that routine would probably get below 65 in international competitions.

Karen is a lovely skater with the wrong programs. And here I must say that apart from Wagner, everyone has pretty crap music and routines.

Does Wagner even have a shot at the podium anymore??? I just don't see her going to the Olympics anymore.

Wagner is only 3.5 points from a podium spot currently.

It’s not necessarily a splatfest; a splatfest would be Russian Nationals Men’s FS. But there were a lot of stumbles, yet not necessarily falls.

I don’t know about a 65 for Mirai. The jump was fully rotated, so they were correct in the markings, and the rest of her elements were pretty smooth. I could see a 70 Internationally.

With Karen, the magic of On Golden Pond was left to last year, and her LP has been a back and forth all year.

 

[Mathman]

First, I think that we can drop the "blonde" from the "Little girls in pretty boxes" syndrome. Of the 7 U.S. Olympic champions, only Tara Lipinski was blonde (sort of). What that book ("Little girls in pretty boxes" by Joan Ryan) was about, by the way, is a criticism of the gymnastics and figure skating establishments for insisting that the girls have essentially boys bodies, and that as soon as they develop breasts and hips, they are thrown on the trash heap to suffer with anorexia. Anyway, I think that the classic U.S. figure skating star is more the all-American girl next door (Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamill) than the Disney Princess.

]IT SHOULDNT be this way, but if we enter the Olympic Games with Mirai or Karen as our champion, they won’t call her America’s Sweetheart. It will be endearing and supportive, but those slight, sometimes unnoticeable changes will be seen.

I remember in 1992 that people raised the point that Kristi Yamaguchi did not rake in the same financial benefits (from endorsements, etc.) as previous Olympic gold medallists had, especially Dorothy Hamill. Kristi being Asian American meant that she did not fit sponsers' profile so well.

However, times change. If anything, nowadays ladies' figure skating in the U.S. is perceived as essentially an Asian American sport. Mirai certainly would have been America's skating sweetheart if she had won in 2010 -- she was anyway, based on her 4th place "Carmen's little sister" performance. Now Mirai is too old to be a little girl in a pretty box. But Karen would certainly become be skating's darling, if not America's ("America" doesn't have darlings any more. They have women athletes who kick butt. )

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[Skatefan15]

The short program wasn't that bad tbh. I personally like Bradie a lot, yes she's not the most exciting skater, but I rather have a less exciting skater who rotates rather than an "exciting" skater that under-rotates almost everytime.

 

[TCAngel18]

First, I think that we can drop the "blonde" from the "Little girls in pretty boxes" syndrome. Of the 7 U.S. Olympic champions, only Tara Lipinski was blonde. What that book ("Little girls in pretty boxes by Joan Ryan) was about, by the way, is a criticism of the gymnastics and figure skating establishments for insisting that the girls have essentially boys bodies, and as soon as they develop breasts and hips, they are thrown on the trash heap to suffer with anorexia.) Anyweay, I think that the classic U.S. figure skating star is more the all-American girl next door (Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamill) than the Disney Princess.



I remember in 1992 that people raised the point that Kristi Yamaguchi did not rake in the same financial benefits (from endorsements, etc.) as previous Olympic gold medallists had, especially Dorothy Hamill. Kristi being Asian American meant that she did not fit sponsers' profile so well.

However, times change. If anything, nowadays figure skating in the U.S. is perceived as essentially an Asian American sport. Mirai certainly would have been America's skating sweetheart if she had won in 2010 -- she was anyway, based on her 4th place "Carmen's little sister" performance. Now Mirai is too old to be a little girl in a pretty box. But Karen would certainly become be skating's darling, if not America's ("America" doesn't have darlings any more. They have women athletes who kick butt. )

Just my opinion, of course.

This seems like an ideal that I would love, and that the American public needs, but these federations are very Reactionary.

I got the book right, woohoo! The sentiment was off a bit, in context with the book. It’s the packaging aspect that I take from it, that you have to “fit the mold”.

I think America doesn’t have darlings anymore because of the emerging diversity, yes, but then you have the Frank Carroll’s of the world, who still have a voice, and even though he had Kwan, you can TELL it was all about packaging with him.

Sometimes it takes an all world talent to completely break the mold. Gymnastics had Simone Biles. Who will be USFSA’s Biles?

 

[TerpsichoreFS]

I'm a huge Karen fan and I think she should have been fourth, but I'm still glad she did not take off herself from the team in the sp. I want Angela Wang on the Olympic team now.

Honestly Bradie's sp isn't so bad even if she is not graceful. It's the fs that is horrible. Does Ashley still have a chance, especially as the fed may not want to reproduce what happened in 2014?

 

[Koralai]

Did anyone see this quote from Mirai, posted by Jackie Wong? I'm assuming it was in response to a question about what she was mouthing to herself before the program started.

Uh, this kind of floored me: "I think every brilliant mind is a little crazy." Sorry, but I just don't see how to read this in a way that doesn't sound narcissistic. I guess you probably have to have that kind of opinion of yourself to keep going in such a competitive sport, but still... my image of Mirai has changed from reading that quote. Idk, probably an overreaction, but after spending so many years of my life around creative people of various stripes, I've become violently allergic to people who consider themselves geniuses...

 

[katymay]

I'm a huge Karen fan and I think she should have been fourth, but I'm still glad she did not take off herself from the team in the sp. I want Angela Wang on the Olympic team now.

Honestly Bradie's sp isn't so bad even if she is not graceful. It's the fs that is horrible. Does Ashley still have a chance, especially as the fed may not want to reproduce what happened in 2014?

After re watching, I would have had Wang in 1st, Karen in 4th. Bradie was way overscored PCS, and Hanna way UNDERSCOrED PCS. Vivian is a sad thing, watching her she should be much better. Vivian has huge natural ability, not sure what happened to her along the way. (injuries? boots?) As far as Ashley, I'm just not a fan of recycling programs, especially programs that are cheesy. At least Mariah's program has difficult transitions, step seq. etc.

Anyway, praying for Nagasu and Chen, it is going to break my heart if one of them doesn't make the Olympic team.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

With what i saw i think Bradie is a clear winner of the short. I would give her 71 points tho. I think 2 Mirai jumps were clearly borderline, and one of those two I would call as UR (probably toeloop), so i would score her just below 70. I think Karen, Angela, Mirai and Ashley all deserve the same kind of score (67-68) with that kind of skate. So, my scores for short would be:
1. Bradie 71
2. Mirai & Ashley 68
3. Karen & Angela 67
4. Mariah & Polina 65

E: So, comparing to judges results i think Ashley and Angela should be closer to the first place than they are and Mirai a little bit further....

 

[NoStefaniaNo]

I wish they presented the women as athletes who kick butt, but for some reason they seem to want a coltish blonde Disney princess story each Olympics. It isn't Bradie's fault that NBC is pushing this narrative and, although it is to her benefit right now, I think it can be harmful to her in the long run.

It used to be the same in gymnastics, but consecutive African-American Olympic champions disabused them of that notion, at least for the time being.

 

[readernick]

You are creating a catch 22 scenario. You said ashley's pcs is lower than her previous best. Her previous best is based on her being usa #1. Ashley never had the skills or the transitions to be in the 33-34 pcs range. She got it due to the support from her fed. Now that she is not usa #1, she is getting what she actually put out. Just because she was always scored inflated score doesn't mean she is getting the wrong score today.

That is my point all along. Some people are going nuts and claiming she is hosed. Really, if you score her correctly, her loop wouldnt get even get such GOE. And her PCS would never be so high. Ever.

And if the usf didn't actively support her, she would be sitting at home in 2014. So ungrateful to even mutter that usf didn't support her.

I mentioned in my original post that the USF did support her in 2014 but only because her results were so strong for the previous two seasons that it would have been ridiculous for them to leave her off the team. She had medaled at every Grand Prix event she entered, medaled at the Grand Prix Final and placed higher at Worlds than any other US lady the previous two years.

In fact, Ashley has not been US champion since 2015 but her PCS marks internationally have remained very high. So there is no catch 22 as you inaccurately phrase it. You obviously don't like her. But, the international judges do. Her transitions aren't great but her other marks should be high and are internationally for a reason. Ashley achieved international success before she became US champion. She made it to the Grand Prix final in 2009-2010 and was not sent to Olympics that year. She has the only US lady to make the final. Before she became the national champion in 2012, she had already won 6 medals on the Grand Prix. (5 more than Bradie has) So, claiming that the USAFA is the only reason for her success is not supported by facts.

If you suddenly get lower PCS at nationals than you have been getting for years internationally it is a bit shocking. Nationals are known for inflation, not deflation. But, as I mentioned before, I don't think it is a grand conspiracy. Just bad judging.

But, don't let facts get in the way of your opinion. They obviously haven't previously

 

[da96103]

I wish they presented the women as athletes who kick butt, but for some reason they seem to want a coltish blonde Disney princess story each Olympics. It isn't Bradie's fault that NBC is pushing this narrative and, although it is to her benefit right now, I think it can be harmful to her in the long run.

It used to be the same in gymnastics, but consecutive African-American Olympic champions disabused them of that notion, at least for the time being.

Are they presenting ladies figure skaters as Disney princesses? Didn't they learn their lesson when an Olympic medalist told Mickey Mouse that the victory parade at Disneyland was so corny, causing the traumatized Mickey Mouse to go into therapy for months?

 

[AKGROWN]

How was that inappropriate? She's been a hot mess this whole season and considering her skate today, accurate.

I know you are replying to temadd's post "I for one appreciate that you mentioned it. People need to know how inappropriate Dave is. And that is putting it kindly." (I don't know how to get it quoted here - sorry). Can you provide some context? What was said?

 

[silverfoxes]

except Voronov had a season career best while Ashley has been on a clear downward swing for the last year and a half

Yeah, I don't think the situations are comparable at all. One skater worked hard, proved himself over multiple competitions (senior Bs, GP and GPF) all season long, the other one has only done one competition where she barely made bronze with an underwhelming performance, and dropped out of the other competition in the middle of a program. Not sure why she deserves better, tbh. She should just show up once or twice a season in a new dress with her recycled programs and be treated like a queen despite all the obvious flaws in her skating? Yeah, no.

 

[Zhenya is DIVINE]

I really think Wang should be ahead of Tennell. Angela is the whole package and all Bradie does is give me an overwhelming need to count sheep. But of course USFS couldn't be more transparent and judged accordingly. Sigh.

 

[LiamForeman]

I'll be happy with the team being the top three. Bradie has the jump consistency, Mirai the 3axel, and Karen is the all around best skater. Karen is also the 'future' who SHOULD be on the team for the experience.

Ashley's time is up, I'm afraid to say. HHCC has never been a favorite of mine, too much wiggling and shoulder action and not enough real choreo. It's more an exhibition number than a serious Olympic program. She might pull off a miracle in the FS, but her vibe has cooled and I just don't see 'champion' skating from her anymore. Dave Lease was right even though it came across as critical, but what exactly does Ashley do well from an elements standpoint? Spins aren't great, jumps rarely are all there. She had a great run this decade, but time to move on.

I was happy to see Angela Wang skate well and I'm not sure why she didn't receive higher scores. Polina redeemed herself from this season, but I'm not feeling it with her.

I just wasn't inspired by what I saw last night. Bradie seems okay enough to take the title, though I really really want Mirai to win. She'll go nowhere internationally with her UR issues, but I'd like to see her win back her title ten years after the fact.

 

[Mathman]

Did anyone see this quote from Mirai, posted by Jackie Wong? I'm assuming it was in response to a question about what she was mouthing to herself before the program started.

Uh, this kind of floored me: "I think every brilliant mind is a little crazy." Sorry, but I just don't see how to read this in a way that doesn't sound narcissistic. ...

Nah, she just meant that she needed to throw herself into that triple Axel like she was "crazy." Sort of a "no guts, no glory" thing.

 

[NoStefaniaNo]

Are they presenting ladies figure skaters as Disney princesses? Didn't they learnt their lesson when an Olympic medalist told Mickey Mouse that the victory parade at Disneyland was so corny, causing the traumatized Mickey Mouse to go into therapy for months?

Ha! Thank you for the legitimate laugh this morning. Sorely needed on this chilly day. Time to dust off youtube and watch that old clip.

I probably should have posted my comment in the state of US Ladies thread. It was my takeaway from the conversation around Bradie during the broadcast and in some of the lead up coverage. It just felt like here we go again...

 

[da96103]

Did anyone see this quote from Mirai, posted by Jackie Wong? I'm assuming it was in response to a question about what she was mouthing to herself before the program started.

Uh, this kind of floored me: "I think every brilliant mind is a little crazy." Sorry, but I just don't see how to read this in a way that doesn't sound narcissistic. I guess you probably have to have that kind of opinion of yourself to keep going in such a competitive sport, but still... my image of Mirai has changed from reading that quote. Idk, probably an overreaction, but after spending so many years of my life around creative people of various stripes, I've become violently allergic to people who consider themselves geniuses...

She didn't say she is a genius. I would interpret a brilliant mind as being clear headed and having confidence in the mind to tackle the performance. She is saying she needs to give herself a pep talk to be brilliant. Not she is brilliant already.

Although I can see how it could easily be misconstrued from the way the sentence is written.

I'll give Mirai the benefit of doubt.

 

[brightphoton]

Did anyone see this quote from Mirai, posted by Jackie Wong? I'm assuming it was in response to a question about what she was mouthing to herself before the program started.

Uh, this kind of floored me: "I think every brilliant mind is a little crazy." Sorry, but I just don't see how to read this in a way that doesn't sound narcissistic. I guess you probably have to have that kind of opinion of yourself to keep going in such a competitive sport, but still... my image of Mirai has changed from reading that quote. Idk, probably an overreaction, but after spending so many years of my life around creative people of various stripes, I've become violently allergic to people who consider themselves geniuses...

Mirai is a brilliant mind when it comes to figure skating though.

I'm sure she's not developing a big ego. Mirai once told her mother that her legs are worth gold. Her mother replied, "it's too bad your brain isn't."