2018 Olympic Figure Skating Free Dance

[Tigerlily87]

What's wrong with the Polish judge giving the same scores?

V/M had one extremely biased judge for them on this panel (Canada) vs 3 for P/C (China, USA, Turkey)

That seems suspicious to me.

I agree about the American judge as well. How far we’ve come from when Canada worked with the USA in dance judging

 

[onyxrose81]

I never liked the Kerrs. All of their skates that I remember they were doing some weird spacy stuff, although now in hindsight, understanding ice dance much better than I did then, I see why their options were limited.

For me P/C created a moment like Scott and Tessa did in Vancouver. The audience was silent. It was mesmerizing.

I could not be happier with the result - best FD for the French and another gold for Virtue and Moir.

I just wish another US team had been given a chance for a medal in the team event.

In regards to your last sentence, I understand better why they went with the Shibs. Chock apparently has been carrying an injury and H/D reverted back to form. At least with the Shibs, you can trust them.

 

[BlackAxel]

It's telling that 4 years after Sochi people still believe that Marina Zoueva did Tessa & Scott a disservice by choreographing that Seasons FD but there are also people who still have their knickers in knots that they called her out for that. Get over it.

I can't believe some people still have their panties in a twist over this. Like it's been 4 years. They must really be good at holding grudges.

Okay, I think I should explain my previous post about V/M's Seasons FD. Truth be told, I liked their Seasons FD but if we are going to compare it to Mahler and Moulin Rouge ... It just doesn't compare. No, I am not holding any grudges. I am just calling a spade a spade. And yes, I am aware that this is an extreme example though I am sure Tarasova/Morosov fans will feel the same way four years from now. God-willing they wont have to experience another Candyman FS (another not so Olympic worthy program ... or worthy in general).

If there is one thing that I enjoy about Ice Dance, it is the memorable Free Dances that are performed at the Olympics. If we exclude Navka/Kostamarov's FS at the 2006 Olympics (they skated to Tosca, right?), we have had some pretty remarkable OGM winning free dances over the years.

 

[ioanablabla]

I will ask a stupid question: was that a new dress for the long for Gabby, too? It looked... smaller.

 

[composer]

I just wish another US team had been given a chance for a medal in the team event.

I have a conspiracy theory for you. But just to be clear I made this up and I am not serious.

The US wanted to spread the medal wealth by ensuring a team medal goes to as many of the skaters who wouldn't medal individually as possible. Sensing where the ice dance winds were blowing, they expected H/D to get the bronze (and they would have! Look at that PCS!) so they decided to go with S/S in the team event since either pair would have probably placed the same.

To be clear let me reiterate I just made this up. And I mean this in good fun.

 

[cell]

But as a matter of aesthetic pleasure for me, I don’t think V/Ms FD even come close to rivaling P/C. Dance, as it’s best, doesn’t just respond to musical or instrumental cues. It should complicate and change or heighten our understanding, emotional or otherwise, of a piece. I’ve belabored the point before - but V/Ms choreography, while dramatic and exciting, doesn’t achieve that. It acts out the music in a literal fashion. It’s over-determined and narratively simplistic, adding absolutely nothing to just listening to the soundtrack. To give an obvious example. The bellicose accented Rox (High)-Anne(Low) is literally illustrated with just a slamming of the arms from high to low. Trivial. That is type of choreography we get in the program. Whereas the frequent trills of the violin are completely ignored and unremarked upon (funnily enough one of the few interesting things the film Moulin Rouge does is use the violins trills with cropped editing to dissect the body and exhibit the violence of the piece).

P/C choreography, however, heightens and complicates our understanding of the piece. To give an example, a feature of Moonlight Sonata is an ostinato triplet and it’s first movement is a dark, heavy, burdened piece of music. Many have described this pattern as a swaying feeling (which is why sometimes people imagine a boat on a lake swaying over moonlight). But P/C do something different with it. They imagine instead we are moving forward propulsively, not swaying, as they enter the curve lift during the first movement and gazing longingly upward as the pitch heightens. It’s a bold interpretation. It’s foreshadowing the possibility of the third movement - a motion propelling us to the resolution of burden to one of excitement and possibility. It’s a completely different way of viewing the first movement than we are accustomed to.

Again, all of this says nothing about V/M as *athletes* because ultimately they are not aesthetic dancers or choreographers, they are *athletes*. I was merely giving my perspective on why P/C speak to me more as a viewer.

Sorry, but I find your description of why P/C are better artists with their program rather pretentious. You are of course entitled to your opinion, and, yes, it's a beautiful program, but Moonlight Sonata is a deeper piece of music to start with. C'mon, it's Beethoven vs Moulin Rouge music whicg is quite awful in comparison. It's very hard to bring depth to something like Moulin Rouge ... you are saying it's not deep enough and too literal, but I really don't understand how you expect to see depth from a theatrical program. I think it's a testament to V/M actually that they took this awful piece of music and perform the hell out of it and made me watch them despite it.

 

[AliAle]

I initially posted this in the P/C thread, but since people are still baffled by why P/C managed to get better PCS, I'll give my personal take on it:

For me, the biggest disappointment about P/C not getting the OG is that it somehow feels like a celebration of the same old things in ice dance and failing to acknowledge the way P/C managed to change the sport (for the better) in the past 4 years. I remember seeing them with Pink Floyd as Juniors and with Woodkid in their first year as Seniors and thinking, wow, the French have something very special on their hands. But nothing prepared me for Mozart and how it suddenly was everything I never knew I wanted and needed in ice dance. The way they rise and fall and become the music, the way they always make you forget about the technical elements, the butter smooth quality of their edges, the perfect incorporation of contemporary ballet into their upper body movements, it all makes for a completely different aesthetic than anything seen before in figure skating. And I'm not sure if people realize this, but programs such as what Aliona and Bruno put together in the last two years, or the Shibs finally managing to find a style that works for them, are largely due to the influence P/C and the Montreal camp have had. People suddenly realized, wow, you can actually build a program under the current tech. requirements and still make it look like a composition that actually makes sense. You don't have to play a role and over-emote to have an emotional impact.

V/M on the other hand, while absolute masters of their craft, never felt like Innovators to me. When they announced their come-back, I remember them mentioning they felt like they still had things to show in ice dance. I was pretty excited about it to be honest because while I always admired their skill, they failed to capture my attention in the past and I always blamed it on the programs. But other than perfecting their craft, it doesn't feel like they brought anything new to the table, no other facet to their skating. And in the end, these two new OG medals feel like scoring one over D/W as opposed to being driven by any creative need for expression. This is where Tanith's movie comparison is so astute, there's everything to admire in an excellent block-buster, but it always smarts when the art-piece that actually pushes cinema further fails to win an Oscar against it.

So yeah, I do think the officials tried to reward Innovation over the Block-Buster, but a mix of V/M finding the perfect form and P/C being a bit unlucky, worked against the French.

And a bit on the lighter side: I have this image in my head of Gaby, the two Maddisons and the guys having a good cry over a bottle of :insertpreferredalcohol: while throwing Gaby's SD dress in a bonfire.

 

[cell]

That seems suspicious to me.

I agree about the American judge as well. How far we’ve come from when Canada worked with the USA in dance judging

Well. It's better to give the same score, rather than give one team 6 points over the other (hello Turkish judge and Leanna Caron)

- - - Updated - - -

honestly, I expected Shibutanis to smash their PB with what they have produced today, probably their most genuine and driven performance ever, except maybe 'Fix You' FD performed at Boston Worlds 2016 - but PCS was their undoing, again, which baffles me for -nth time. There are so many ways to express material, different kinds of energy and connection between partners, so many aesthetics and styles to divulge and ALL of them could be excellently presented and executed. I really, really do not get this 'hot'n'cold' approach judges towards Maia and Alex work as a whole, but in general - PCS became too instrumental and does not always reflect the actual stuff we are seeing on ice performed at the exact time of happening, so I stopped to care about it.

Yet, they still did it, despite everything.

Absolutely underscored. Again. And I'm NOT a fan of Coldplay or the program necessarily

 

[cell]

I loved "Je Suis Malade" back in 2012, but I don't think it was effective for Weaver and Poje here. I'm not sure if I just didn't pay attention to the music in '11-'12, but I did not like the instrumental bits nor the editing of this version (whether it's the same or not).

Papadakis and Cizeron are incredible skaters and performers, but I echo comments that have often been posted earlier in the season about the presto agitato part of the program. It's not necessary to be lightning fast throughout that cut of the music, but for the most part neither their speed NOR their movements fit the music. Really a glaring weakness compared to the rest of the program.
.

Agree that Je Suis Malade now feels very stale.

As for P/C , I agree and feel like they don't always keep up with the fast section of their program in their performances... Except for the the spin, which is so fast and brilliant and hits many beautiful positions

 

[composer]

I wonder if P/C had competed in the team event if the costume malfunction would have happened there instead and the results here would have been different.

 

[whatif]

I am sure P/C are just happy to be there. At least this loss will motivate them to stay. Next time I guess.

 

[1795]

That seems suspicious to me.

I agree about the American judge as well. How far we’ve come from when Canada worked with the USA in dance judging

Maybe they were just better?

 

[BlackAxel]

Well, I'm sad. I told myself before the games I would sacrifice a P/C win for a Yuzuru win and here we are. I agree with the placement, and hopefully it means Gabriella and guillaume will not have to fear being assassinated. They brought so much to ice dance. They deserve to be recognized for it. Also the audience reaction to V/M is kinda basic. OMG they are so sexy! Cue fangirl screaming.
I am disappointed in the end it is the camp of people that were vicious, demeaning and verbally abusive in great numbers that won.

And we all know that in four years people will not be rooting for P/C no matter what they say now. Not with the Parsons, and Soucisse and Firus. It will be the same war. Do not act like you support them and you think they will just collect their gold in Beijing.

Lol you really need to chill because it isn't that serious. I don't even think many people harbor an irrational hatred for P/C. The main complaints seem to be centered around Gabby's SS + their "unwillingness" to branch out and try other styles. Though I think a person would be hard pressed to deny that P/C are unique in that they bring something different to the ice.

There is no need to label any camp as "vicious, demeaning, and verbally abusive." Though I do find it ironic that you are quick to describe the audience reaction as basic. Especially when the audience reaction to Hanyu's performances are second to none ;-)

You might have certain preferences when it comes between the skaters and programs, but you agree that the placements were right. So let's just leave it at that.

 

[wasabi]

Upfront, I think V/M should’ve won, primarily because I thought P/C were over-scored in the SD because that was a messy and uninspired skate (whether or not it was because of the costume is irrelevant, it happened), though I never much liked their SD anyway. And, as a sport, I’m ultimately fine with either of them at the top of the podium since both of their skills are impeccable. I’m also thrilled that many of V/Ms fans got to witness such a marvelous performance as a parting gift.

But as a matter of aesthetic pleasure for me, I don’t think V/Ms FD even come close to rivaling P/C. Dance, as it’s best, doesn’t just respond to musical or instrumental cues. It should complicate and change or heighten our understanding, emotional or otherwise, of a piece. I’ve belabored the point before - but V/Ms choreography, while dramatic and exciting, doesn’t achieve that. It acts out the music in a literal fashion. It’s over-determined and narratively simplistic, adding absolutely nothing to just listening to the soundtrack. To give an obvious example. The bellicose accented Rox (High)-Anne(Low) is literally illustrated with just a slamming of the arms from high to low. Trivial. That is type of choreography we get in the program. Whereas the frequent trills of the violin are completely ignored and unremarked upon (funnily enough one of the few interesting things the film Moulin Rouge does is use the violins trills with cropped editing to dissect the body and exhibit the violence of the piece).

P/C choreography, however, heightens and complicates our understanding of the piece. To give an example, a feature of Moonlight Sonata is an ostinato triplet and it’s first movement is a dark, heavy, burdened piece of music. Many have described this pattern as a swaying feeling (which is why sometimes people imagine a boat on a lake swaying over moonlight). But P/C do something different with it. They imagine instead we are moving forward propulsively, not swaying, as they enter the curve lift during the first movement and gazing longingly upward as the pitch heightens. It’s a bold interpretation. It’s foreshadowing the possibility of the third movement - a motion propelling us to the resolution of burden to one of excitement and possibility. It’s a completely different way of viewing the first movement than we are accustomed to.

Again, all of this says nothing about V/M as *athletes* because ultimately they are not aesthetic dancers or choreographers, they are *athletes*. I was merely giving my perspective on why P/C speak to me more as a viewer.

I love how you explained this! V/M are the consumate athletes/performers and I am very happy they won. I have loved their numbers since Carmen!
However, P/C are mesmerizing on, it seems, an intuitive level.

 

[wasabi]

Couples whom I think were underscored, and indeed have been all season:

Gilles/Poirier
Coomes/Buckland

When is originality going to be rewarded?

Originality? Seriously? Like no one has done Bond before?

Kudos to Coomes/Buckland on what has been a long journey back from injury for them.

 

[BlackAxel]

- delete -

 

[OS]

Upon reflection from last night... here's what I'd score on their FS

P/C: 96 / 105 91.4% x 5% bonus for extraordinary program quality = 95.97 %
V/M: 97/ 100 97% win on execution and delivery, plus exude confidence and magic the sort we get from Champs @ big events.

V/M should win both SP+LP AND overall. Experience, confidence and knowing their Olympic audience helped their campaign.

 

[Tigerlily87]

To be perfectly honest, this final reminds me a lot of the pairs final in 2002.Two completely different styles but really can’t be compared and possibly will be argued over who was better for years to come

 

[1795]

I think in the SD, even if P/C did not have that issue, V/M deserve to win anyway. V/M have always been stronger in SD. And I am not really sold by P/C SD this season.

The judges seem to love P/C SD though.

Can someone explain to me "deserving" to win (with this connotation/intonation) ?
V/M are great - they've transformed the sport (with davis/white) but.........not with this program.

 

[BlackAxel]

I initially posted this in the P/C thread, but since people are still baffled by why P/C managed to get better PCS, I'll give my personal take on it:

For me, the biggest disappointment about P/C not getting the OG is that it somehow feels like a celebration of the same old things in ice dance and failing to acknowledge the way P/C managed to change the sport (for the better) in the past 4 years. I remember seeing them with Pink Floyd as Juniors and with Woodkid in their first year as Seniors and thinking, wow, the French have something very special on their hands. But nothing prepared me for Mozart and how it suddenly was everything I never knew I wanted and needed in ice dance. The way they rise and fall and become the music, the way they always make you forget about the technical elements, the butter smooth quality of their edges, the perfect incorporation of contemporary ballet into their upper body movements, it all makes for a completely different aesthetic than anything seen before in figure skating. And I'm not sure if people realize this, but programs such as what Aliona and Bruno put together in the last two years, or the Shibs finally managing to find a style that works for them, are largely due to the influence P/C and the Montreal camp have had. People suddenly realized, wow, you can actually build a program under the current tech. requirements and still make it look like a composition that actually makes sense. You don't have to play a role and over-emote to have an emotional impact.

V/M on the other hand, while absolute masters of their craft, never felt like Innovators to me. When they announced their come-back, I remember them mentioning they felt like they still had things to show in ice dance. I was pretty excited about it to be honest because while I always admired their skill, they failed to capture my attention in the past and I always blamed it on the programs. But other than perfecting their craft, it doesn't feel like they brought anything new to the table, no other facet to their skating. And in the end, these two new OG medals feel like scoring one over D/W as opposed to being driven by any creative need for expression. This is where Tanith's movie comparison is so astute, there's everything to admire in an excellent block-buster, but it always smarts when the art-piece that actually pushes cinema further fails to win an Oscar against it.

So yeah, I do think the officials tried to reward Innovation over the Block-Buster, but a mix of V/M finding the perfect form and P/C being a bit unlucky, worked against the French.

And a bit on the lighter side: I have this image in my head of Gaby, the two Maddisons and the guys having a good cry over a bottle of :insertpreferredalcohol: while throwing Gaby's SD dress in a bonfire.

Thanks for shedding some light on why P/C deserve higher PCS than V/M. I agree that P/C do bring something different to the table. Though my only qualm is with SS category. I honestly dont believe that they are superior in comparison to V/M. I also dont believe that P/C should have had higher PCS than V/M in the SD. Just my own opinion of course.