2018 Olympic Figure Skating Ladies FS

[chopinskate]

Like Yuzu commented last night while reviewing the ladies performances, I'd have given both Alina and Evgenia gold.

Yuzu's too nice.

 

[withwings]

Brave statement.

I think this result is the truth.

1. Osmond
2. Zagitova
3. Medvedeva
4. Sakamoto
5. Miyahara
6. Kostner

...imho the tiny queen's Miyahara LP was a perfection of perfection, but, unfortunately, there is not enough medals for everyone!! :sad4: she has gotten one anyway- the love and hearts of so many

...thanks to all the medalists

 

[zschultz1986]

I don't really think about it as 'artistic' cause the word is too loaded. But it was an Olympic moment for me. I could at last look past all the things that bugged me about her skating and programs, and simply enjoy what she had to offer.
Satoko is the same. Her jumps drive people crazy, but it doesn't phase me when I'm too busy enjoying the whole of the program.
A Judge would obviously need to pay attention to things like this, and often I get caught up in it too. But this time, it was pure enjoyment.

I still am not able to fully enjoy Zagitova's SP. And her LP was more rushed than usual, but with time, I believe she will also improve.

That's fine and all, but the judges are telling us NOW that Alina is the epitome of what a skater should be. Which, IMO, speaks badly of figure skating. Who needs to improve when what you've put out is considered OGM material?

 

[Ophelia]

Hanyu won in 2014 and he’s improved considerably since then. Perhaps Zagitova will be the same.

 

[chopinskate]

When Zagitova gets supplanted by the next Eteri junior, everyone will be calling her an artistic phenom.

I do think Zagitova has it in her though. Have a look at this instagram pic. She needs to start translating that onto ice.

 

[ramed]

I'm a bit worried about the reception Zagitova is going to get, and wondering if the Russian fans are going to send her hate mail given she snatched the gold at the very last second.

Oh I just love that. Alina's already got such a good-sized portion of thinly (or not so thinly) veiled hate from oh-so-nice, kind, and loving posters on this forum she probably has enough of it for the next 100 years. But your hope on the hate from her fellow compatriots is not even slim, it's empty. Sorry to disappoint you ;-)

 

[Ophelia]

@chopinskate I agree with you. I actually think Zagitova has all the raw material to be a complete package and one of the all time greats.

I just don’t have much hope she’ll fulfill her immense potential being in camp Eteri.

Ugh. In my wildest skating dreams she would be coached by BOrser.

 

[GGFan]

I do think Zagitova has it in her though. Have a look at this instagram pic. She needs to start translating that onto ice.

Oh yes, she has moments in Don Quixote where she'll hit a position and it'll leave me like But the moment is always fleeting and the position is never held out for long. I don't know that she has any incentive to refine things but it would be beautiful if she did.

 

[chopinskate]

Oh yes, she has moments in Don Quixote where she'll hit a position and it'll leave me like But the moment is always fleeting and the position is never held out for long. I don't know that she has any incentive to refine things but it would be beautiful if she did.

Oh yeah! There was this one time she did an arabesque in attitude and I noticed that she actually does have a line to speak of. Don't know what's up with her posture during the routine, though, then.

 

[zschultz1986]

Hanyu won in 2014 and he’s improved considerably since then. Perhaps Zagitova will be the same.

Or perhaps she will be like her compatriot, the last OGM: Sotnikova. Who never competed again.

 

[Metis]

Well, I disagree. I find her programs to be overwrought, boring, crafted without care for the musical phrasing, overly emotive, and over-reaching. To me she isn't artistic, and I find her personal style to be quite unpalatable.

For an example of an artistic skater who is "modernist" or "futurist", please have a look at Giada Russo's SP again.

I mean, Anna Karenina itself is overwrought and includes a marriage proposal in which two characters intuit what the other is saying by writing the first letter of each word of a complete sentence on a chalkboard. And then there are the 200+ page interludes on farming.... [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] If there ever was a time to go big and act like you’re auditioning for Emoji 2: The Miming, Tolstoy is it.

But, no, Medvedeva isn’t subtle. Again, haven’t been following figure skating especially closely for the past while outside of the major events, and I sort of binge-watched the last few years to remind myself why I cared about the overall field for the ladies (men’s ... I was more interested). I think some of her “the rat symbolizes obviousness” tendencies have been toned down, and Karenina was just a good vehicle for her, but agree to disagree — overly emotive is I think what happens to Medvedeva at her worst (although to be fair, she isn’t the one choreographing her programs), along with boring (I hope Karenina is the direction she continues to pursue, as it’s a step forward and blends real storytelling with her natural instincts as a performer — but some of her programs absolutely have a “same-y” quality), etc.

Russo is fascinating and also pushing at the edges, but I feel her short program isn’t cohesive, and the timing of the first jumping pass in relation to the music is incredibly out of sync. I mean, let’s start a thread on the topic of artistic innovation in the women, as I was offering a defense of Medvedeva from someone who wasn’t as actively involved in figure skating over the last cycle (the scoring wars make it pretty unpleasant, and the best Medvedeva got out of me, in terms of emotional reaction, was basically an elevated “meh,” at least until it came together with Karenina).

I think I may just have a higher tolerance for “I don’t like it, but I see what you did there and you achieved your goal” than others. Personally, I would like to take Boyang’s free program out back and roundhouse it a good several dozen times, but it’s a competent vehicle for what he excels at and he delivers it well, and frankly I’d take it over Fernández’s.

Oooh, I agree with all of this. I have had mixed feelings about Evgenia's programs past and present, but the way she pulled off her LP at the Olympics was absolutely striking and unforgettable. Like Yuzu commented last night while reviewing the ladies performances, I'd have given both Alina and Evgenia gold.

I think the podium order was right, honestly. As much as people complain about Zagitova’s PCS, she isn’t just a “jumping robot.” It wasn’t her best performance of the program, but adding the 3Lo onto the second 3Lz in time to the music (although she was a bit off the music overall — again, not her absolute best performance of the program but her worst is still so far ahead of most of the rest...) was an “Olympic moment” if there ever was one. The skating order definitely loaned itself to a “downer ending” feeling, as Zagitova’s rather upbeat program would have been a great way to go out. Instead, the night got progressively darker until we closed with a program in which a woman throws herself in front of a train for reasons forever unknown, so even if in the moment I felt bad for Medvedeva and, as I’ve said, there was a credible case for both Zagitova and Medvedeva to win... there’s still a good faith argument for Medvedeva (or any podium you like), but I’m happy for Zagitova and she was the best skater the two days it mattered.

It amazes me how Med has suddenly gone from “tano jumping queen” to “amazing, boundary pushing artist” just because she lost OGM.

I joined about a week ago and am not exactly Medvedeva’s biggest fan; I think she’s undervalued in one key thing and maybe overvalued everywhere else. Karenina was her most complete performance, at least. That’s a long way from saying she’s in the same league, artistically, as the greats.

And I freaking hate tano arms. On everyone. Even Hanyu. I’ve just accepted them at this point, the way you accept the train hurtling toward you when you’re tied to the tracks.

 

[chopinskate]

post

I did start a thread in artistic innovation.

And I have had the same complaints about Med's programs since 2016-2017 season. So it's not about Anna Karenina.

 

[Metis]

I did start a thread in artistic innovation.

Awesome, you’re the best. Now I feel dumb. I have two replies I owe people, I was building a playlist for your program thread (because if Vincent Zhou wants to be an emo kid on ice, that’s cool, but my emo self is judging him for “Chasing Cars”), and autoimmune disorder + I tl;dr off my cellphone... but thread subscribed, will post.

Edit: No, I accept that you and I aren’t ever going to agree on Medvedeva. I guess I see something there in the Karenina program and a refinement that overtakes her very obvious flaws, which you listed and I don’t dispute, but no two people will see the same thing the same way. But we’re in agreement on Zagitova... and I will cheerfully admit she interests me more than Medvedeva.

The nastiness toward Medvedeva from some posters and implications she’s done nothing for the sport admittedly baffle me. She’s not always my cup of tea, she’s not even my favorite skater, but... chill, people.

 

[ramed]

Results if judging were accurate and based on complete programs:

1. Kaetlyn
2. Evgenia
3. Alina
4. Satoko
5. Kostner

Damn shame and sad I couldn't fit Gabby in here.

Woohoo! Wrong, just plain wrong. Go the whole hog, Med should be 19 and Zag 20. Wishful thinking is running amok.

 

[AvgeekJoe]

1.Osmond
THAT is joke!

No joke.

- - - Updated - - -

Woohoo! Wrong, just plain wrong. Go the whole hog, Med should be 19 and Zag 20. Wishful thinking is running amok.

Nah, I won't do that to them.

 

[ssminnow]

It robbed her of a little common sense. Doing europeans still injured put some doubt in the judges mind and gave alina the momentum she needed to beat her . . I'm so gutted for her. She deserved to win the gold.

I really like Alina. But I agree with you that had Medvedeva skipped Euros, her performances here may well have taken gold. Once a new champion was anointed by the judges, it would have taken a serious mistake (like P&C in dance) to win her crown back.

 

[Nikidom]

The right skater won tonight, it was close, but based on the skates Alina deserved that gold. People are saying Alina should have less PCS and the difference would be higher, are you forgetting about TES? Even if Alina had less PCS, ~70, and Evgenia's 77 wasn't overscoring, in accurate scoring, Alina would still edge her out in TES. Alina has over 4 points over Evgenia JUST in base value, and that margin should have increase SO much with proper GOEs. All her elements are much higher quality, jumps and spins. Who disagrees with this? Tell me on which element. In reality, while Alina did have a huge PCS boost, Evgenis got a HUGE TES boost, getting more GOEs on her jumps than Alina on some, while it is clear Alina has much better jumps. And spins that are noticeable slower, and travelled, compare to Alina's spins which are much faster and more centred. Overall, Evgenia got MORE GOE than Alina, and it's just that they shouldn't get the same GOE, Evgenia should get MUCH less. You can't just look at PCS and say well Alina was overscored so Evgenia could have won; if you're going to take that route, you have to do the same with TES.

Thank you for the correct commentary. what i really hate is the same total score for LPi shows judgment system, pushing Med to gold. Although it was a great performance ny Evgenia. Difference in tech for both programs Alina and Med should be minimum 9-9.5 minimum, if they can do that to GOE, what can we discuss about pcs..

 

[withwings]

@chopinskate I agree with you. I actually think Zagitova has all the raw material to be a complete package and one of the all time greats.

I just don’t have much hope she’ll fulfill her immense potential being in camp Eteri.

Ugh. In my wildest skating dreams she would be coached by BOrser.

Totally agree- she is having a great potential; i agree about Orser, too

 

[chopinskate]

The nastiness toward Medvedeva from some posters and implications she’s done nothing for the sport admittedly baffle me. She’s not always my cup of tea, she’s not even my favorite skater, but... chill, people.

Yeah, I hope I'm not nasty. I do think she isn't one who has pushed the sport too much, but her grit was unmatched this quad till Zag came along.

 

[colormyworld240]

Or perhaps she will be like her compatriot, the last OGM: Sotnikova. Who never competed again.

I tink they're quite different, though. Sotnikova, other than olympic gold, has not won a single international competition in seniors. In contrast, Alina has won them all.

- - - Updated - - -

- - - Updated - - -

Fun fact: all 3 podium finishers have either broken their leg or foot in this quad. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger?