I agree, rain! Although I do like Plushy, I thought he was terribly overmarked at times. His strong suit was obviously that he could do the jumps, but I found the rest of his skating to be lacking any creativity. I always wished he would get himself to a real choreographer who could maximize his talents.
Plushenko's Return
- Thread starter bronxgirl
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I agree, rain! Although I do like Plushy, I thought he was terribly overmarked at times. His strong suit was obviously that he could do the jumps, but I found the rest of his skating to be lacking any creativity. I always wished he would get himself to a real choreographer who could maximize his talents.
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- Mar 28, 2005
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- Jul 26, 2003
OK, as I have said before, they just have to skate better, except in his case I think the judging will not be fair. I think those that favor him will put him first no matter what. I never really cared for his skating that much. He jumps extremely well but as far as I am concerned, has no personality on the ice.
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- Mar 28, 2005
The judges will give Plushenko the 3-fall cushion he has always had. That is assuming Lambiel, Joubert, or Takahashi do inspired and squeeky clean performances with full difficulty in both short and long, with energy, passion, attack, and complete command. If they dont his 3-fall cushion they have already awarded him before the event starts grows even more. The "Plushy squad"(the judging panels nickname)will be back in full forth, you can bet on that. Hoping for the fair and open competition we had this season is delusions I am afraid to say.
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- Oct 20, 2006
I am not very clear where is this 3-fall cushion coming from? I hope you could explain it in details.
I agree that Plushenko's marks were inflated in some degree in 2006 Olympics. But my view is that clearly he was much better than any of the men before the Olympics. Unless he faltered himself, he should get the gold. Some commentators (I think it was Scott Hamilton. I agreed with him on this one.) said that at the Worlds following the Olympics (which was about one month later), the judges would review the Olympics result and wouldn't give such high marks easily. (The meaning was like that. I am paraphrasing it.) At that time, I was actually hoping that Plushenko would not go to the Worlds after the Olympics' win, for the fear of him losing the Worlds right after. I don't think he would always get the absurd high marks especially the rest of the field is sooooo much stronger than in 2006.
Plushenko's marks at the 2006 Olympics was a little bit similar to Evan Lysacek's marks at this year's Nationals. No question that they both should have won the competitions. but the judges wanted them to win so they gave them the high marks. The difference was that Evan's marks at the Nationals was much more absurd than Plushenko's at the Olympics'.
Any jumps that Plushenko can do but the rest of the men can't? He did quad-triple-triple but that was many years ago - in 2003? Later he only did quad-triple-double which many men can do now. What else he own?
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- Mar 28, 2005
Pretty simple. Judges decide already before any event he enters he has a margin of safety of 3 falls over his closest competitor(s). They decide before any event he is in, before the event even starts, that he must falter in the equivalent of 3 falls, and his closest competitor(s) skate an inspired, confident, and uninhibited performance for him to be in any danger of losing any event.
The understatement of the century. Almost a 91 for his short program as the first skater in the whole event. Almost 170 for a watered down free skate, with a jump doubled late, that was choppy and terribly choreographed. +2s on GOE on any element he did even his mediocre slow spins, all 8s and higher on PCS even for choreography and transitions which he has almost zero of in his programs. Yep overscored just a bit I think.
Good. I am glad they were taking seriously the scores that were dished out for him at the Olympics were inexcusable. Of course he deserved the gold medal, he does not deserve any competitive element of events he is in removed before they even start by the Plushy panel though; and to be scored as outrageously good in every aspect whether his programs are or not.
Be prepared to be surprised then.
Actually the real difference is Evan's "absurd" score was at Nationals where you expected inflated scoring, Plushenko's "absurd" scores were at the Olympics.
So you were actually present at the meeting where the judges decided how many falls Plushenko is allowed to have and still win.
What the heck, why only 3? And why Plushenko bothers to jump quads and 3A-s when few 3T will bring him the gold?
Of course, the judges forgot about the cushion thing when Joubert or Sandhu won over Plushenko.
As for the SP score at Olympics, if Lambiel managed an over 70 score for his SP at Worlds with a jump content that would embarrass a junior lady, why are you so shocked with Plushenko’s score? And what about Lambiel’s PCS ? It took him some time to recover after the 3A fall, was slow, lacked attack and still, voila, almost 8-s for all the PCS ….
Oops, there was a meeting where the judges decided that Lambiel is to get sky-high marks in the PCS even if he spends his time competing with Zamboni machine (great choreo and interpretation, isn’t it?). I think the judges took the decision at the same meeting where Plushenko’s marks/falls were dicussed. Of course, you know better since you were there….
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- Mar 28, 2005
The evidence of his scores for the performances he does is sufficient.
That is a good question, why dont you send him a latter yourself and ask him.
Naw they didnt. When Plushenko lost to Sandhu he fell in the short program, and gave up the equivalent of 3 more falls(8.5 points lost for a jump that did not count because he put a double toe on the end, 4.5 lost for taking out a triple salchow which was an allowed 8th jumping pass). Sandhu only made minor errors so about the equivalent of 1 fall. 4 falls worth of mistakes for Plushenko, 1for Sandhu, the 3 fall cushion that the "Plushy panel" gives him over his closest competitors was met that day, thus grudgingly the "Plushy panel" crowned a different winner then their pet.
At the Europeans Plushenko was a mess in the free program, making atleast 3 falls worth of mistakes. Joubert was flawless. Again his 3 fall cushion was met and the "Plushy panel" grudgingly crowned a more deserving winner that day, as the disaester of Plushenko and the brilliance of a chief rival that is required for his pre-destined cushion to be met again occured.
Those 2 events merely prove my point further, thank you very much.
Lambiel lost 7.7 for doing a triple toe-double toe instead of a quad toe-triple toe, and 4 points for falling on a triple axel. That is 11.7 points, probably a couple more points in PCS and GOE too. So his score then goes from a 72.70 to a 84.40, then up to something in the 86-87 range. Perfectly reasonable if he had skated perfectly.
Not ridiculous like the almost 91 for Plushenko as the very skater, for a program with the same jumps many others were doing, mediocre to poor spins, bare bones choreography, and more meaningless arm waving then a YMCA instructor.
Skaters like Lambiel, Buttle, Takahashi, actually have real choreographed programs, and actually put real transitions between their jumps, yet always average well below 8.0 on their PC marks. Plushenko does neither, and does connect-the-dot choppy programs, and as Elvis Stjoko once said any music could be played in the background while he is skating. Yet he routinely is far above 8.0 average on PC marks for any program he does regardless.
It would be interesting to wonder what the scores would be if they all wore bags over their heads, and their names were not announced. Plushenko might be scored to see his vastly different scores for choregraphy, transitions, interpretation, and spins if that happened.
He averaged in the mid-7s range on his PCS mark. I guess exagerration of reality is your best argument.
I wonder how many falls Plushenko would need for his PC scores to drop that far, even with his non-existant choreography, and plain stroking from one element to the next. He would probably injure himself from all the falls and be unable to finish before they dropped that far in fact, so we would never find out.
It's exactly what I think about your style of posting.
Couldn't have described it better.
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- Jul 11, 2003
Lambiel had one of those forgetable SPs not unlike Plush in SLC. He rose from down in the dumps to a bronze medal with his superior LP.
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- Feb 5, 2004
I think he fell three times in that program under 6.0 where he was satlking the quad.
Ant
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- Oct 20, 2006
I thought you would bring on all the detailed numbers and argue how good he executed his jumps and how much a gap between his technical abilities and the rest of the field.
But your idea of "3-fall cushion" was supported only by your rich imagination which doesn't have a solid ground. So it couldn't convince me. We have to remain our different opinions and wait till next season and see.
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I think that we don't need to discuss about the "amount of unfairness" related with Plushenko's points. The main thing is : judging always was pre-decided when he was competing. It was a very active "background lobby work" behind him by his coach.
The thing we don't want back after this season is the unfairness. That is why most of us has a bad feeling to get him back starting these odd feelings again.
The thing we don't want back after this season is the unfairness. That is why most of us has a bad feeling to get him back starting these odd feelings again.
