Actually Caroline Zhang's program includes two 3 lutz(flutz) and two triple flip.
Who was better at 13, Naomi Nari Nam or Caroline Zhang?
- Thread starter Mathman
- Start date
Actually Caroline Zhang's program includes two 3 lutz(flutz) and two triple flip.
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2006
I would agree with the "performance" aspect of Zhang....but still under pressure (US Natls) she did make mistakes in the SP and LP IIRC with her jumps, where as Mirai skated two clean performances. NNN brings a "joie de vivre" to the ice with her when she skates....Zhang performs but just no projected sense of really Loving what she does exudes from her when she skates. IMO. She is well choroegraphed, performs the elements well, but that spark that NNN has isn't obvious in CZ.
And Zhang wasn't under pressure at Junior Worlds? Considering she was undefeated all season until Nationals and then had to face the one person (Nagasu) at Jr Worlds who had beaten her, plus she was reigning JGPF champion etc etc etc
So what is your point exactly? Zhang will never have that bubbly personality on the ice that NNN did because it's not her style. Caroline's artistry and presentation are far more subtle. Does that make her the lesser skater? I think not.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2006
Actually I stand corrected then. Zhang does even MORE jump content then I thought she did, and hers already blew NNN's away to begin with. The programs I saw her skate she did 1 lutz and 2 flips though.
Just curious about what program u saw. I think I have seen almost all of Caroline's long programs of this season, she always had the same jump layout of two 3lutz and two 3flip.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2006
I forget the names of the events, but they were junior GP events of some kind. The only 2 events I saw her try two 3 lutz and two 3 flips was the U.S junior Nationals and World juniors. Those were her most recent events though, so in any case I should have credited her for now regularly doing it, but I was being purposely stingy since it seems this is a board Zhang will not be given any benefit of doubt.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2004
For those of you making a big deal about Caroline doing two "lutz" jumps in her programs, they were sooooooooooo horribly flutzed that they should not even be counted as lutzes. She shouldn't be getting any credit for them because they are really just extra flip jumps.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2006
It does not matter in the big picture though, if you feel she her lutzes should get no credit and points, the fact is they do, so if we are talking whose jumps you would rather have it is best to think realism terms, not in fantasy terms. Certain skaters that are ridiculously overhyped like NNN, especialy in a U.S oversaturated market of overhyping the "anointed" stars, cause fans to take fantasy views as opposed to realism views to defend the slanted reality of where those overhyped "anointed" ones really stand, views they have been fed by the U.S mass media.
Programs with 6 triples, including 2 flutzly lutzes and 2 triples flips, still blows away some little girl who could barely stand up 3 triples, never a triple lutz landed; except for her 1 fluke "all time" performance she stood up 5 triples, 0 triple lutzes, and 2 of the 5 two footed.
As for flutz have you ever seen Nam's awful hideous triple lutz attempts(0 of which she landed)? The worst lutz technique in history. Even worse then Zhang's, but she falls at the end of hers, while Zhang lands them.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
Caroline's technique on the flip and lutz are very much like cohen but with an S Hughes type kick up with the picking leg. She does four of that jump in her LP plus another two....that's about three different triples then.
Ant
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
Just out of interest (and actually just being devil's advocate for the sake of ti becuase i've never seen Nam skate in singles) why do you not have any problem with the "overhyping" and "annointing " of Zhang, but you do with Nam? Is there any difference? One suffered injuries and never made it at teh senior elite level as a single's skater and the other has never competed in a senior championship.
Ant
Zhang still finished a close second to Nagasu at US Nationals.
NNN still has that "joie de vivre" as a Pairs skater, but it hasn't earned their team a spot on the World team. Emily Hughes has JDV too, but it hasn't brought her the titles she craves. Both NNN and Hughes have deficiencies in their skating that are far greater than Zhang's deficiencies, at least in the judges' eyes, and JDV hasn't made up for them.
