2022 U.S. Nationals: Senior Pairs Short Program

[CoyoteChris]

Also posted in the dedicated thread, but, Brandon tested negative on Monday. He felt sick today, and tested again, although not required:

Alexa Knierim, Brandon Frazier out of figure skating nationals (COVID-19)

Pairs national champions Alexa Knierim and Brandon Frazier withdrew from the U.S. Figure Skating Championships due to Frazier testing positive for COVID-19.

olympics.nbcsports.com

Alexa's IG post:

Brandon said on his FB vid you ARE to report illness and he did and got tested.

 

[ice_tulip]

You would drive to Nashville from California??

Sure would.
Option 1: Drive from Cali to Nashville, avoid COVID, compete at Nationals and go to Olympics
Option 2: Fly from Cali to Nashville, catch COVID on plane/in airport, withdraw from Nationals and potentially lose Olympic dream

Which option would you choose?

Another option might be to fly out 2 weeks before competition and stay in Nashville for those 2 weeks in isolation other than practicing. If they caught COVID during their travels they would have time to test negative before Nationals. But I doubt many skaters have the money, logistics and resources (rink access?) to do something like that.

 

[CoyoteChris]

Hard to watch Brandon's vid on FB...he got very sick very suddenly....How? For any of us, there are many vectors and I get slapped here by the moderators when I talk about them.
Suffice to say that this week's mass screening of the Seattle school system, four percent are positive. This spreads like wildfire. I agree with "The Skating Lesson". Pick the Oly team and get them isolated. Now.

 

[ice_tulip]

Oh wow, just saw Brandon's video. He said his symptoms are "severe" and his voice sounds terrible. Even someone young, boosted, and in peak physical condition can suffer from COVID. I feel awful for him. He really looks devastated.

Edited to add: I was so excited to watch the pairs events (on TV). It's my fav discipline. Now who knows if any pairs will be healthy enough to skate tomorrow, or if the event will even be held. USFS failed their skaters big time.

 

[Skater Boy]

Liu and O'Shea - what happened to them. Why did they pull out.

I mean for the team event. We need our strongest pairs team for the team event.

True but without full practice and competition readiness they may not be the strongest. JUst saying...

 

[Skater Boy]

Sure would.
Option 1: Drive from Cali to Nashville, avoid COVID, compete at Nationals and go to Olympics
Option 2: Fly from Cali to Nashville, catch COVID on plane/in airport, withdraw from Nationals and potentially lose Olympic dream

Which option would you choose?

Another option might be to fly out 2 weeks before competition and stay in Nashville for those 2 weeks in isolation other than practicing. If they caught COVID during their travels they would have time to test negative before Nationals. But I doubt many skaters have the money, logistics and resources (rink access?) to do something like that.

This is all hindsight. its too late to drive to nationals form California.

 

[Moxiejan]

Hard to watch Brandon's vid on FB...he got very sick very suddenly....How? For any of us, there are many vectors and I get slapped here by the moderators when I talk about them.
Suffice to say that this week's mass screening of the Seattle school system, four percent are positive. This spreads like wildfire. I agree with "The Skating Lesson". Pick the Oly team and get them isolated. Now.

There’s no problem in discussing covid as it directly affects a skater and/or competition; what’s not allowed are posts that give political opinions and/or medical advice.

At any rate, here’s one example of how a healthy, young (late-20s) man who is vaxxed/boosted can get very sick very suddenly: My nephew attended a house party with 8 guests on a Saturday night. By Monday night (just 2 days later), he was developing symptoms that included sore throat, body aches & fatigue so severe that he was bed-bound for 4 days; it took him 10 days to feel almost normal (and everyone at the party did test positive within 2-4 days). Relating this to Brandon/Nationals: If he (along with Alexa) flew in on Sunday, exposure could have taken place via airport/plane or via skaters/hotel on Sunday night. Two days after that brings us to symptoms starting on Tuesday night and feeling very ill by Wednesday morning.

 

[litenkyckling]

I think that many people just don't want to understand just how this spreads because they want to go back to "normal" - but we have a new normal and this is it.

I don't know if where you live impacts how you think (probably) but from a UK perspective - so many people who socialised on the weekend of 10th/11th December ended up with covid. In a room of people, 75% are likely to become infected. And while many people have so-called mild symptoms, it's so important to remember that the worst symptoms ends up with you on a ventilator. I think Brandon said he was boosted, but obviously we don't know when, and they do take around 3 weeks to be fully effective. This truly spreads like wildfire and I can't believe that USFS have allowed an audience and kept it in Nashville. Las Vegas clearly allowed them to effectively bubble - with athlete only floors etc. The same goes for Stockholm - they weren't allowed to leave their rooms until they had a negative test 2 days after arrival.

I'm really not trying to be negative about this, I just think it's so heartbreaking that poor health precautions have happened at the most important event for many US athletes and it could have been avoided.

 

[gold12345]

Knierim/Frazier looked great and healthy at the practices on Tuesday. Some people expect the skaters to run and get a test every time they cough or feel a minor cold coming on, but realistically they can't do that. The skaters were only supposed to be tested 4 days after arrival, but Brandon went to go tested faster than that because of his symptoms.

She probably wore a mask because she didn't want to get COVID. Brandon didn't wear a mask because he didn't want to wear one. He must have thought he wouldn't catch coronavirus.

No, it's very normal and expected for skaters to not practice with masks on. I don't think everyone realizes how physically demanding and potentially dangerous pair skating is until you try it (or a sport equally as difficult). The skaters are required to wear masks everywhere else.

Skaters are naturally socially distanced from each other on the ice--- the odds of catching it from a skater on the other side of the ice rink are next to none. There was only 1 other pair in K/F's practice group because the other 2 pairs had already withdrawn, and they weren't near each other. Considering how quickly Brandon tested positive after that practice, chances are he was exposed to it way before ever getting on the ice here.

Do we blame people when they catch a cold? No. It's really out of the skaters' control and I feel very sorry for them that they have to be in constant fear of testing positive no matter how many precautions they take.

If I were a skater, I would have driven to the location and avoided airports. I would have had food delivered to my room and not eaten in common areas. I would have had a HEPA filter in my hotel room and cracked windows open if possible for better ventilation and air filtration. I would have worn an N95 when around others and insisted everyone on my team do the same. And I would have made sure everyone on my team including myself was fully vaccinated and boosted. I doubt many skaters are taking any of these precautions, but this is what is required to have a good chance to avoid Omicron. This variant is just about as contagious as measles. It's horribly contagious!!

There is nothing the skaters can do to fully avoid it. It would have cost them days of missed training to drive from SoCal to Nashville instead of taking a plane. And since when do hotel room windows open? They were using N95 masks and taking a ton of precautions, but you still come into contact with a lot of strangers on any trip, it's unavoidable. It's like a cold-- if it were that easy to stop it, nobody would be catching one.

 

[gold12345]

K/F look so great in that video Alexa posted, they have top quality elements and athleticism. Honestly that practice video excites me more than anything I expect to watch in today's competition. No question they are our best pair and would give us the best hope in the Team Event. They have the best potential for this Olympics. They are also steady- by that I don't mean they skate flawlessly, but their scores are usually consistently strong internationally. I see no good reason not to grant their petition as long as he's recovered.

It must be so hard for them to have to sit out after feeling so on top of their game coming in. Poor Brandon looks so distraught in that video. He will feel better if the US does the right thing and selects them.

Don't you want to see how the others skate before selecting K/F for the Olympic team? I know I do...

Not in this age of body of work where a year of international competitions is worth more than one day at Nationals (as it should be), and you're asked to reach certain scores to be placed in a certain Priority Grouping (which only K/F achieved this year). I'm already very strongly convinced that K/F have earned an Olympic spot and are the US's best choice. One competition can't change that.

The others could all skate their best here and it wouldn't change what their international average scores are. The whole feel of the the competition can change when the top skater WD-- they may skate totally differently than they would have with K/F there pressuring them. So I wouldn't read much into this event at all. With the top pair out and 8 pairs in the field (meaning literally half of them will get a medal, and the top 3 is pretty automatic), it feels a little like an asterisk Nationals; it's not complete.

 

[moonvine]

Liu and O'Shea - what happened to them. Why did they pull out.

I’m sure they are still recovering from dual concussions. Even if they are not they just returned to the ice very lately and likely wouldn’t be in competition shape.

 

[moonvine]

Oh wow, just saw Brandon's video. He said his symptoms are "severe" and his voice sounds terrible. Even someone young, boosted, and in peak physical condition can suffer from COVID. I feel awful for him. He really looks devastated.

Edited to add: I was so excited to watch the pairs events (on TV). It's my fav discipline. Now who knows if any pairs will be healthy enough to skate tomorrow, or if the event will even be held. USFS failed their skaters big time.

Ashley Cain-Gribble was hospitalized with Covid right before Cranberry Cup. Fortunately she does seem to have recovered with no long Covid damage *fingers crossed.*

Yes. USFS failed miserably. I would withdraw my financial support (which is so small it’s not like they would notice) but that’d only hurt the athletes.

 

[Yeslekyelnats]

Ashley Cain-Gribble was hospitalized with Covid right before Cranberry Cup. Fortunately she does seem to have recovered with no long Covid damage *fingers crossed.*

Yes. USFS failed miserably. I would withdraw my financial support (which is so small it’s not like they would notice) but that’d only hurt the athletes.

I read she now has asthma

 

[moonvine]

I'm really not trying to be negative about this, I just think it's so heartbreaking that poor health precautions have happened at the most important event for many US athletes and it could have been avoided.

IIRC there was only one Covid withdrawal at last Nationals and that was pre Nationals.

I don’t know if they are still happening, but USFS sent me an email very late in the game (I think December 31) trying to get me to buy tickets to their off ice activities.
I was horrified.

The only small nod to athlete safety is asking spectators to not approach skaters for autographs or pictures.

 

[moonvine]

Hard to watch Brandon's vid on FB...he got very sick very suddenly....How? For any of us, there are many vectors and I get slapped here by the moderators when I talk about them.
Suffice to say that this week's mass screening of the Seattle school system, four percent are positive. This spreads like wildfire. I agree with "The Skating Lesson". Pick the Oly team and get them isolated. Now.

4% is low. There’s a 28% positive rate in St Louis overall. Don’t think they’ve isolated the school system tests or if they have they haven’t announced it.

 

[litenkyckling]

Knierim/Frazier looked great and healthy at the practices on Tuesday. Some people expect the skaters to run and get a test every time they cough or feel a minor cold coming on, but realistically they can't do that. The skaters were only supposed to be tested 4 days after arrival, but Brandon went to go tested faster than that because of his symptoms.

I don't think anyone is blaming the athletes because they're doing all they can and they don't make the rules. But asymptomatic cases can be picked up in daily testing, by the time an athlete has symptoms they have likely already spread it. You should really try to take tests regardless of whether you feel ok or not, especially in a so-called bubble.

 

[Spiralgraph]

Honestly, if Brandon is experiencing severe symptoms and He just started feeling sick yesterday, it's going to take some time for him to heal and recover. That means some time off the ice. Then when he gets back he'll need time to get into top shape and be strong enough to skate with Alexa, lift Alexa for throws and twists. I question whether they could be considered the USA'S top pair right now or in a month at the Olympics.

 

[ManyCairns]

I don't think anyone is blaming the athletes because they're doing all they can and they don't make the rules. But asymptomatic cases can be picked up in daily testing, by the time an athlete has symptoms they have likely already spread it. You should really try to take tests regardless of whether you feel ok or not, especially in a so-called bubble.

I don't get the sense they even tried to have a bubble. Please correct me (anyone) if I'm wrong.

 

[moonvine]

I don't get the sense they even tried to have a bubble. Please correct me (anyone) if I'm wrong.

There is no bubble and no signs I see they tried to create one. I’m told most people in the athletes hotel are unmasked.

 

[ManyCairns]

There is no bubble and no signs I see they tried to create one. I’m told most people in the athletes hotel are unmasked.

I can't believe USFS didn't set one up (an athlete bubble).