2022 U.S. Nationals: Senior Men's Free Skate

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Except for the fact that Malinin has never had the opportunity to skate at a Senior GP. The guy made the JGPf as the top qualifier.

Well that's what could hurt him - that he has no significant international experience.

But the guy did a quad lutz in both programs and did a 4-quad free skate. That can't be ignored.

The Olympics are in a month. If the US wants to send the team that can produce the best results (i.e. highest scores), Malinin deserves to go over Brown.

I said before that Malinin would need to beat Brown by a huge margin and land like 4 quads (I only thought he was going for the lutz and toe).

Malinin delivered, landing 6 quads across both programs. Zhou did 5 (although 3 of them should have received q's). And Brown failed to land even one clean quad, let alone attempt more than one (which deserved a < instead of a q).

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

Omg, so you require that skaters have to achieve the minimum in their first senior event ever or they are not worthy? You are right there is a few skaters who get them with only 2A but most of them did not get them on the first try. There are a lot of skaters who use a whole season getting them. I´m sure Ilia will get them at the next try. His BV is extremely high.

He will get them next time but what I’m saying is he is an inconsistent skater, the minimum wasn’t difficult to get. If there is some kind of problem where he doesn’t have minimums it is his own fault, I’m not sure who else’s fault it would be. It isn’t like they didn’t give him the chance.

Him not having the minimums demonstrates his inconsistency and I think it should be considered in this whole situation. Not oh poor Ilia who doesn’t have the minimums.

 

[moonvine]

What is the value of top 10? The only thing that matter is a medal. There is not much difference between 10th and 20th place for the history. Why sacrifice someone who can end 20th but also 3rd, for someone who can't end on podium despite his consistency?

Ilia will not medal at the Olympics, even if he skates lights out. He has the tech content but not the skating skills. He is also pretty much unknown to International judges and was playing it safe on tech content in the JGP to ensure making the finals.

 

[Wafflecakes]

When the stakes were high at Worlds last year, and Olympic spots were on the line, Jason delivered. Zhou failed to make the free skate.

No. Nathan delivered.

Jason came in 7th. Which, while he isn't capable of much better, isn't what should be getting all the credit for slots.

 

[Mista Ekko]

Well folks, I've read all your comments and had time to mull it over.
Nathan Chen is locked in. As for the others here is what I am considering:

Ilia Malinin - Tremendous skate. What is the likelihood that he will repeat such a feat under Olympic pressure. Can we use him in the team event?

Vincent Zhou - High scoring potential, up and down skater meaning he peaks and troughs regularly. What is his track record when the stakes are high (Worlds, Olympic pressure)? Can we count on him in the team event?

Jason Brown - Magnificient, one-of-a-kind skater with high scoring potential but not extraordinary high scores. What is his track record when the stakes are high (Worlds, Olympics)? Can we use him in the team event?

How are they all trending?

The more I think about it, As he is not an exceptionally reliable skater

The only argument in favour of Jason is how beautifully he skates,

All the others have more potential than him competitively.

 

[karne]

Again, that doesn't. entitle. Brown. to. an. Olympic. spot.

But along with his GP medals it may be the reason why they give it to him over Malinin - no, not over Zhou - over Malinin.

I was answering. a. question.

When the stakes were high at Nationals this year, and an Olympic spots was on the line, Jason missed one jump, Zhou missed several. They were essentially tied if you factor in their overall totals including the short program where both did well.

Yes, when the stakes were high at Nationals this year, Jason missed one jump - before quickly recovering into a near flawless stunning performance. Zhou missed a jump - and it quickly snowballed into sloppy landings and eventually falls. It is the difference for me.

 

[TontoK]

I think USFS sort of locked themselves in a corner here as they have to send Zhou if they don't want to violate their own guidelines but there's a reasonable argument for sending Chen/Brown/Malinin. (probably the least likely)

Chen/Zhou/Brown for consistency, Chen/Zhou/Malinin if you want to go high risk, high reward.

I can think of no reasonable argument for that lineup.

I get that many people love Jason, and I get that many people don't like Vincent. But they're not competing for Miss Congeniality.

Vincent beat Jason here, he has higher international scores this season, he has better medal results, he has the advantage on that criteria thing USFSA has said they'd go by.

Nathan and Vincent are in. The third man will be either Brown or Malinin.

 

[labgoat]

Well that's what could hurt him - that he has no significant international experience.

But the guy did a quad lutz in both programs and did a 4-quad free skate. That can't be ignored.

The Olympics are in a month. If the US wants to send the team that can produce the best results (i.e. highest scores), Malinin deserves to go over Brown.

I said before that Malinin would need to beat Brown by a huge margin and land like 4 quads (I only thought he was going for the lutz and toe).

Malinin delivered, landing 6 quads across both programs. Zhou did 5 (although 3 of them should have received q's). And Brown failed to land even one clean quad, let alone attempt more than one (which deserved a < instead of a q).

How do you feel about Malinin over Zhou?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Am I missing something, didn't Ilia score 12 points higher than Jason, not 22 like people say? Maybe I'm just too tired.

Technically speaking, Ilia scored 115.44 and Brown scored 93.88. If Brown's 4S had correctly been marked as UR, Malinin would have had 25 points higher TES than Brown.

 

[karne]

No. Nathan delivered.

Jason came in 7th. Which, while he isn't capable of much better, isn't what should be getting all the credit for slots.

It takes the result of more than one skater to earn three spots. Jason's 7th place finish contributed to the three spots just as much as Nathan's win did.

And a whole lot more than Zhou's 25th did.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I can think of no reasonable argument for that lineup.

I get that many people love Jason, and I get that many people don't like Vincent. But they're not competing for Miss Congeniality.

Vincent beat Jason here, he has higher international scores this season, he has better medal results, he has the advantage on that criteria thing USFSA has said they'd go by.

Nathan and Vincent are in. The third man will be either Brown or Malinin.

This. Like James/Radford, we know that Zhou is not everyone's favourite people/person. But they've produced the best results this season and have earned their Olympic spots.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

What is the value of top 10? The only thing that matter is a medal. There is not much difference between 10th and 20th place for the history. Why sacrifice someone who can end 20th but also 3rd, for someone who can't end on podium despite his consistency?

I kind of agree with you how there is no much of a difference in 10th and 20th place looking from an angle of the individual skater, But it's matter for the country quotas (to have at least 2 or 3 skaters in the next competition, as more representatives in the GP series), so i guess that is the logic behind the criteria.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

No. Nathan delivered.

Jason came in 7th. Which, while he isn't capable of much better, isn't what should be getting all the credit for slots.

7th is a lot higher than 25th

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

It takes the result of more than one skater to earn three spots. Jason's 7th place finish contributed to the three spots just as much as Nathan's win did.

And a whole lot more than Zhou's 25th did.

Wait, Zhou came 25th at Worlds? This is news to us!

 

[kan01]

Technically speaking, Ilia scored 115.44 and Brown scored 93.88. If Brown's 4S had correctly been marked as UR, Malinin would have had 25 points higher TES than Brown.

It's the overall that counts. Jason is scored very high internationally too. How many times did he win over guys with multiple quads? If Ilia's quads fail, it's over for him, while Jason hasn't been less than 10th in any of his competitions ever, including Olympics.

 

[TontoK]

I kind of agree you that there is no much of a difference in 10th and 20th place looking from an angle of the individual skater, But it's matter for the country quotas (to have 2 or even 3 skaters in the next competition, as more representatives in the GP series), so i guess that is the logic behind it.

There are no spots/quotas on the line at the Olympic Games.

 

[sworddance21]

Does Olympic placement have any bearing on spots for the FOLLOWING Olympics? I didn't think so.

 

[Wafflecakes]

It takes the result of more than one skater to earn three spots. Jason's 7th place finish contributed to the three spots just as much as Nathan's win did.

And a whole lot more than Zhou's 25th did.

The delusion is strong.

 

[labgoat]

Just throwing it out there - either Ilia or Vincent have the potential to damage the US medal hopes in the Team competition. Jason likely does not.

This is why I see the decision as Ilia vs Vincent, but then I am risk adverse.

 

[bigsisjiejie]

I believe Bavarian Open has the Us spot listed as TBD and they could send him there. Correct, Forum?

Yes, but timewise that's a tight squeeze. There are some other competitions on the ISU schedule (in Europe) where he could be sent to get the Worlds minimums by the Feb 28 deadline. That's assuming he doesn't go to 4CC or Olympics and get the minimums there.