2021-2022 Russian Men's Figure Skating

[vorravorra]

It’s not a matter of choice for Tutberidze’s team, I think. So, if they want to replicate the success of women… but I think that ‘somehow’ is an important piece. On the whole, the Russians seem to exist in the ‘best of the lot’ space for now. I mean, the obvious experiment they should probably try is to let Kolyada skate with one quad, and they did let Samarin and Aliev to skate lighter programs in GP… so maybe we’ll see it in the worlds?

But so far, even with Kolyada, and he is the best, there is simply no degree of perfection and audience engagement that is the best in class internationally. (With my apologies to charming Kondratyuk).

It's not about being best in class, it's that there were men who didn't make the free who were better than Kondratyuk and Semenenko in (real) PCS at this competition. They are just not anywhere near the level they should be at. Kondratyuk is a quirky kid who is charismatic and engaging when he's on but not much beyond that. If he's going to be the face of Russian skating someone should get to work introducing him to edges at the very least. I honestly do wonder about Sokolvskaya's approach sometimes. But at least Samarin has skating skills for all his weaknesses.

I don't get it how a nation, which had skaters like Yagudin, Plushenko, Abt, doesn't really care about the programs anymore. I mean, with the exception of Tatiana Tarasova, the skaters today even have the same coaches as those skaters back then.

Tutberidze's camp have either stopped caring about programs because they don't need to any more, or they have developed a blind spot for Danny G's choreography. As for the rest, I am not sure to what extent they don't care and to what extent they are equally blind to the quality of what they are producing or are simply not capable of coming up with something better. This is a real problem in dance. Everyone seems to be stuck in the past.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

Sometimes I fear I might get whiplash syndrome from following Russian men's skating. Mozalev medals at RusNats and doesn't get the Olympic assignment. Everyone is outraged because clearly he is on an upwards trajectory and deserves the spot. Mozalev has a hard time at the Olympic SP and suddenly it's all doom and gloom and the Russian men can barely skate. Give those guys a break. Quads are hard, ice is slippery, and Olympic pressure is a thing.
I also don't agree that the upcoming Russians are so bad PCS wise. Granted, it's a very subjective thing, but for example, I would rate Mozalev's skating skills quite high and from juniors Yablokov just kills it for me with his charismatic performance and interpretation this season. And in the older guard there are of course Kolyada and Aliev who definitely fit into the PCS-skater category for me. And there are many more examples, but I don't want to bore you with a novel here.
The Russian guys will never be the Japanese, but that's fine, they have other qualities. I wouldn't trade quirky Kondratiuk, exciting Semenenko or moody Mozalev for perfect Kagiyama, even if it means they won't win an Olympic medal this week.

 

[lariko]

I am all for Kondratyuk doing Kondratyuk tbh. He is engaging and sells boyish ardor/edginess very well. Right now, I am just happy all three teen titans made the free skate, and they did it without 4F.

 

[vorravorra]

Sometimes I fear I might get whiplash syndrome from following Russian men's skating. Mozalev medals at RusNats and doesn't get the Olympic assignment. Everyone is outraged because clearly he is on an upwards trajectory and deserves the spot. Mozalev has a hard time at the Olympic SP and suddenly it's all doom and gloom and the Russian men can barely skate. Give those guys a break. Quads are hard, ice is slippery, and Olympic pressure is a thing.
I also don't agree that the upcoming Russians are so bad PCS wise. Granted, it's a very subjective thing, but for example, I would rate Mozalev's skating skills quite high and from juniors Yablokov just kills it for me with his charismatic performance and interpretation this season. And in the older guard there are of course Kolyada and Aliev who definitely fit into the PCS-skater category for me. And there are many more examples, but I don't want to bore you with a novel here.
The Russian guys will never be the Japanese, but that's fine, they have other qualities. I wouldn't trade quirky Kondratiuk, exciting Semenenko or moody Mozalev for perfect Kagiyama, even if it means they won't win an Olympic medal this week.

I didn't criticise Mozalev, although he obviously wasn't at his best presentation-wise. He is by far the strongest in basics and the judges noticed. The Russian guys don't have to be the Japanese, the Russian school is different, but that school doesn't render skating skills superfluous. It's not that there are no PCS skaters in Russia, it's that the world often doesn't get to see them because they are weaker jumpers. And at the level of the three at the Olympics Mozalev has the biggest issue with jumps (height and thus rotation) while also being the best in PCS. Also, I would dispute Kagiyama's perfection but that's beside the point here.

 

[vorravorra]

I am all for Kondratyuk doing Kondratyuk tbh. He is engaging and sells boyish ardor/edginess very well. Right now, I am just happy all three teen titans made the free skate, and they did it without 4F.

Kondratyuk can do Kondratyuk, but he does need a counterpoint and shouldn't be made into something he isn't. I think he has quite an adequate perception of himself, it's more the publicity and the push behind him.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

I didn't criticise Mozalev, although he obviously wasn't at his best presentation-wise. He is by far the strongest in basics and the judges noticed. The Russian guys don't have to be the Japanese, the Russian school is different, but that school doesn't render skating skills superfluous. It's not that there are no PCS skaters in Russia, it's that the world often doesn't get to see them because they are weaker jumpers. And at the level of the three at the Olympics Mozalev has the biggest issue with jumps (height and thus rotation) while also being the best in PCS. Also, I would dispute Kagiyama's perfection but that's beside the point here.

One could also argue that they aren't given enough time on the international stage to really mature and develop their PCS. There is considerable depth and the fed doesn't have any qualms about dropping a skater after one or two bad competitions, so they are under constant pressure to deliver and more quads probably seem like the instant solution to get bigger points (it works in a way for the ladies).
Just look at Moris. He arguably was a rather mediocre skater in the Russian field and then he switched to Georgia, had no internal pressure and all the international assignments. It took quite some time for him to develop some artistry (imo). I highly doubt he would ever have become a GP champion or Olympic FS final flight skater had he stayed in Russia.

But I see what you mean. There is no debate that the majority of the current Russians are not among the most refined skaters. At this point it maybe also comes down to personal preference. I like myself some wild jumpers with ambitious technical content and ideally a touch of Russian ballet tradition. If they have that, I tend to not notice some other short-comings.

 

[lariko]

I think this lack of stability—and I am not talking about jumps, I am talking about access to competition experience, is what overall impacts the focus on the jumping. They are not groomed to be champions. They are raised in the huge pack, with the easiest way to grab the lead—by performing senior quads. The exception is when PCSs cannot be masked, like with Ignatov.

For that reason, I am curious to see Erokhov’s quest (though I want to see 3 quads first, before anyone talks 4).

I think @CrazyKittenLady put her finger on that style of crazy ambition, wild jumps and a bit of ballet here and there. They are fun.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Sometimes I fear I might get whiplash syndrome from following Russian men's skating. Mozalev medals at RusNats and doesn't get the Olympic assignment. Everyone is outraged because clearly he is on an upwards trajectory and deserves the spot. Mozalev has a hard time at the Olympic SP and suddenly it's all doom and gloom and the Russian men can barely skate. Give those guys a break. Quads are hard, ice is slippery, and Olympic pressure is a thing.
I also don't agree that the upcoming Russians are so bad PCS wise. Granted, it's a very subjective thing, but for example, I would rate Mozalev's skating skills quite high and from juniors Yablokov just kills it for me with his charismatic performance and interpretation this season. And in the older guard there are of course Kolyada and Aliev who definitely fit into the PCS-skater category for me. And there are many more examples, but I don't want to bore you with a novel here.
The Russian guys will never be the Japanese, but that's fine, they have other qualities. I wouldn't trade quirky Kondratiuk, exciting Semenenko or moody Mozalev for perfect Kagiyama, even if it means they won't win an Olympic medal this week.

Thanks as always for the positivity booster
In a nutshell that's why I follow the Russian men. Not because of medal contention chances, but rather diverse styles and endearing personalities, and being such troopers in the face of unsympathetic media.

for our teen trio on Thursday!

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

For that reason, I am curious to see Erokhov’s quest (though I want to see 3 quads first, before anyone talks 4).

He delivered the three quads in three of his four free skates this season and only got slightly negative GOE on one of them. To me it seems Erokhov's problem is more that he tends to lose focus once the quads are done and then either pops the trixel or messes up one of his combos. Maybe backloading one of the quads would help with his concentration (but not with my nerves ).

Anyway, I'll be off to my Semmelknödel dinner now.

 

[lariko]

He delivered the three quads in three of his four free skates this season and only got slightly negative GOE on one of them. To me it seems Erokhov's problem is more that he tends to lose focus once the quads are done and then either pops the trixel or messes up one of his combos. Maybe backloading one of the quads would help with his concentration (but not with my nerves ).

Anyway, I'll be off to my Semmelknödel dinner now.

Bonne appetite! I know, he did, but in terms of a finished feel, he is better than Ignatov, but I would love to see more, before loading another quad.

 

[vorravorra]

I think this lack of stability—and I am not talking about jumps, I am talking about access to competition experience, is what overall impacts the focus on the jumping. They are not groomed to be champions. They are raised in the huge pack, with the easiest way to grab the lead—by performing senior quads. The exception is when PCSs cannot be masked, like with Ignatov.

For that reason, I am curious to see Erokhov’s quest (though I want to see 3 quads first, before anyone talks 4).

I think @CrazyKittenLady put her finger on that style of crazy ambition, wild jumps and a bit of ballet here and there. They are fun.

True. I actually think they wanted to groom a champion in Samsonov, it just didn't work out. Currently Samsonov is trying his hand at commentating on VK competition livestreams. Now the Fed is more wary of those little boys with quads.

 

[yelyoh]

A question I hope someone can answer: Several years ago (3?) Eteri had a young male skater around 14 who looked 12 and wore sort of a crewcut hairstyle. The kid could really jump and was very very serious and competitive. I told myself he was someone I should keep an eye on and now..... Since ET has few young male skaters of that age I am hoping someone can tell me who and where he is.

 

[lariko]

A question I hope someone can answer: Several years ago (3?) Eteri had a young male skater around 14 who looked 12 and wore sort of a crewcut hairstyle. The kid could really jump and was very very serious and competitive. I told myself he was someone I should keep an eye on and now..... Since ET has few young male skaters of that age I am hoping someone can tell me who and where he is.

The potential candidates are:

Samsonov—out for now with joint disease
Knyazev—not sure?
Lukin—moved to Plushenko, competing in juniors
Kolesnikov—competing in Russian juniors
Fedotov—competing in Russian ah… a bit before juniors?

 

[vorravorra]

A question I hope someone can answer: Several years ago (3?) Eteri had a young male skater around 14 who looked 12 and wore sort of a crewcut hairstyle. The kid could really jump and was very very serious and competitive. I told myself he was someone I should keep an eye on and now..... Since ET has few young male skaters of that age I am hoping someone can tell me who and where he is.

Samsonov sounds the right age. The rest are younger. If it's him he's been out with Osgood-Schlatter for two years now. No idea if he'll ever compete again. As I have said above, he is currently passing his time doing amateur commentary.

 

[vorravorra]

The potential candidates are:

Samsonov—out for now with joint disease
Knyazev—not sure?
Lukin—moved to Plushenko, competing in juniors
Kolesnikov—competing in Russian juniors
Fedotov—competing in Russian ah… a bit before juniors?

Everyone but Samsonov is too young to have been 14 around 3 years ago. Knyazev has had two foot surgeries and is sitting out this season.

 

[yelyoh]

Thanks guys!!! I think it must be Samsomov. I had no idea of his health issues and the news saddens and disappoints me. Ah yeah I just looked up some pics. It's him, Samsonov. I was really looking forward to his trajectory.

 

[lariko]

Everyone but Samsonov is too young to have been 14 around 3 years ago. Knyazev has had two foot surgeries and is sitting out this season.

Yeah, I thought it was most likely Samsonov, since he had an international junior season. Gosh, that’s rough for Knyazev. Tutberidze and her experiments to make boys jump…

 

[vorravorra]

Yeah, I thought it was most likely Samsonov, since he had an international junior season. Gosh, that’s rough for Knyazev. Tutberidze and her experiments to make boys jump…

Davydov has been getting up to exactly the same experiments lately. He is working hard on becoming Eteri #2 while being even more blunt about it. Competition is good, but do we really need the dragon to be defeated by another dragon?

 

[vorravorra]

Thanks guys!!! I think it must be Samsomov. I had no idea of his health issues and the news saddens and disappoints me. Ah yeah I just looked up some pics. It's him, Samsonov. I was really looking forward to his trajectory.

Kondratyuk came back from Osgood-Schlatter successfully so Samsonov may too. Apparently he tried to go back to regular training early this season but was in too much pain and ended up aggravaiting his condition. So I suppose there is nothing to do but wait.

 

[Artemisa]

Congrats to S. being in the top ten
Congrats to K. so because not everybody would save that combo and after that being his 3 program in so short of time and after a medal wasn't bad
M. he already got his bad program so FS will be great

And final thought: a lot can happen in the FS .. and I think M. can be in the top 15 and S. and K in the top 10 isn't impossible