All of the ladies above her except Kostner (stepout), Kim (fall on 3Z) and Rochette (stepout) were essentially clean and have better basic skating, even with Leung's improvements. If anyone should be crying foul at this point it's Bebe. Come to think of it, the short as a whole was really well skated.
Ladies Short Program
- Thread starter fumie_fumie
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All of the ladies above her except Kostner (stepout), Kim (fall on 3Z) and Rochette (stepout) were essentially clean and have better basic skating, even with Leung's improvements. If anyone should be crying foul at this point it's Bebe. Come to think of it, the short as a whole was really well skated.
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2008
Agree with most of your post, but not sure I'd call Yukari a "B-list" skater. Yes, she's been overshadowed (unfairly so, IMHO) by a lot of the other Japanese skaters in the last few years, but she's really a top-notch skater! I think it is unfortunate that she skates for Japan, because the field there has been soooooooo deep, and she hasn't gotten as much international exposure as she might have if she was skating for another country. Regardless...she's got a pretty consistant triple axel, and any female skater who can land that jump as reliably as she does is certainly not a B-list skater. JMO, of course.
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
I disagree with that. Kimmie was judged fair enough IMO and with these scores she could have been 9th or 5th dependind on which judges were chosen randomly.
And Bebe should be really happy that she did made the top 10 and she got really big PCS for her skatig soo early because yes PCS are still affected by the draw order but thats not the same as judging cheating.
How was Leung's speed compared to the others? When I watch her at Canadians she was very fast.
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
Yeah I actually agree with you too
What I meant is that Yukari has never been Japan's ·#1 or even #2 skater and if you are not #1 then technically you are not in the A-list right???
But yes shes an incredible skater and Im very happy she has a chance to finally medal this time.- Joined
- Mar 13, 2008
Yeah I actually agree with you too
LOL not even sure how you would "technically" place skaters in A-list or B-list or whatever list! In a field as deep as it is in Japan, I wouldn't say you have to be #1 to be A-list, where as in a country like Ireland, for example (just joined ISU this year and, as far as I know, doesn't have any real high-level skaters yet) even their highest-ranking skater wouldn't really be an "A-List" skater. For me, I guess, I'd say any skater who has been able to crack the top 10 or maybe even top 15 at Worlds would be considered A-List. Not that there is anything scientific in that!
If you watch Mao's sp throughout the season multiple times, like me, you'll know what went wrong - her spiral was not held long enough, she went out of the music towards the end before the spins. And her final spins were so rushed and looked messy according to her usual standards. No doubt it was a good skate compared to other skaters but I wish Mao had done her best - her Japanese national sp skate when she hit everything *with* the music.
By the way, skaters don't flutz on purpose. It's procedural memory, once you learn how to do something in a wrong technique, it's really hard to correct. Not impossible, but difficult, so it doesn't make sense to keep harping on Mao fluzting as though she chose to do it. I hope she tries to correct it for next season. =/
By the way, skaters don't flutz on purpose. It's procedural memory, once you learn how to do something in a wrong technique, it's really hard to correct. Not impossible, but difficult, so it doesn't make sense to keep harping on Mao fluzting as though she chose to do it. I hope she tries to correct it for next season. =/
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2008
I think it does make sense to keep harping on Mao, and all other skaters with edge issues on lutz/flip jumps. Some skaters, like Sarah Meier I believe, are trying to fix the problem. Didn't she do just a 3salchow in the SP here at Worlds, because she is re-working her flip to make it a real flip? True, it lowers her base mark but if it helps her in the future, then its worth the effort. Kimmie Meissner is trying to fix the flip and yes, it has affected her consistency but at least she is attempting to address the problem. I would rather see a skater leave out a certain jump in competition, or struggle with it as they re-learn it, than to blatantly flutz/lip with absolutely no attempt to fix it.
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2007
It's inevitable to bring and harp on skaters' jump technique when reasoning their TES and I don't think it is mean-spirited or malicious, like some detractors you come across on youtube.
I read an article that says Carolina had 1.71 + GOE on her 3-3 while Yu-Na had 1.43. If that's true, I can't help thinking Carolina is a heavy favorite between judges(9 out of 12 were Europeans). As far as I agreed with the placement, with Caro's telegraphing(as usual) and sideway axis on the second toe, she shouldn't have gotten higher GOE than Yu-Na.
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So it was not fair. Her PCS should have been first or second.
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2007
Disgusting remark...
I don't understand why everyone stands up against bashing, but with Kostner it's all fair to do it...
If any of you had paid attention to the competition, it's not like she is ahead of Asada...it's like 0.18 points ahead....what is that??? nothing...Asada will move FAR ahead in the long.
Anyway, Kostner did only one mistake and got higher levels on spins because she held all of her edges. The main point difference is the spiral, where Asada lost 3 POINTS. it is a stupid mistake, but happened to Kostner as well at Euros, and noone could realize why they were so strict. Had Asada held her first position more she would be at least three points ahead and noone would complain...
I am feeling people just complain based on the absolute value of the skater. Of course everyone would put a clean Asada in first, but despite being more expressive than usual, she messed up at least three elements...And, once again, it's not like Kostner is in the lead....
It's so ridiculous people keep on saying the same thing once they have a precise idea of a skater. For example, yesterday she AMAZINGLY not telegraphed her lutz if you notice, and also had a fast combo spin and better than usual layback, and had a really nice spiral which probably got high Goes. So compared to her season average of 60 points, it's understandable where those 4 points come form.
First of all I watched all the SPs. And I do indeed think, that Kiira did great, but she should not have been 4th. (5th, 6th?)
What doesn't she have that Sara and Joannie do have? Well, she does not have that nice flaw as Sarah, the footwork and upper body movements are worse, her spins are slower, she looks a bit heavier on ice than Sarah.
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In general, I have few comments.
It seems that Mao, apart from her flutz, did also a lot of small 'mistakes'. EVeryone spotted something - scratchy spirals, a sloppy spin, some parts off the music. Than, it makes me wonder, why is she scored so high?? She might have 3-3 combo, but still, jumps do not make figure skating...
I am very confused with what the competition should look like.. Because, on the one hand, I would prefer to see in the 1st place a skater that skated flawlessly, although did not do such difficult jumps (for example Sarah Meier). On the other hand, I realize that this is sport and everything needs to be counted carefully, otherwise the scores would be COMPLETELY dependent on judges preferences. Therefore, as a partial solution to this problem, I think that in SP all the technical flaws should be punished much more - for example, if normally you lose 3 point by flutzing, you should lose 5 or so. If you do a stepout, it should be punished more (btw, I dont understand why a stepout is considered as a such a minor mistake, actually it looks horrible to me). Then, those great skaters like Mao and Kostner, would have to provide super good FS in order to get to the podium. And thats fair. Otherwise, they make mistakes in SP and they are still rewarded with top spots.. At least their score difference should not be so high compared to the rest of the field.
It seems that Mao, apart from her flutz, did also a lot of small 'mistakes'. EVeryone spotted something - scratchy spirals, a sloppy spin, some parts off the music. Than, it makes me wonder, why is she scored so high?? She might have 3-3 combo, but still, jumps do not make figure skating...
I am very confused with what the competition should look like.. Because, on the one hand, I would prefer to see in the 1st place a skater that skated flawlessly, although did not do such difficult jumps (for example Sarah Meier). On the other hand, I realize that this is sport and everything needs to be counted carefully, otherwise the scores would be COMPLETELY dependent on judges preferences. Therefore, as a partial solution to this problem, I think that in SP all the technical flaws should be punished much more - for example, if normally you lose 3 point by flutzing, you should lose 5 or so. If you do a stepout, it should be punished more (btw, I dont understand why a stepout is considered as a such a minor mistake, actually it looks horrible to me). Then, those great skaters like Mao and Kostner, would have to provide super good FS in order to get to the podium. And thats fair. Otherwise, they make mistakes in SP and they are still rewarded with top spots.. At least their score difference should not be so high compared to the rest of the field.
Thank you. I think this is the FIRST neutral post I've read on Carolina in this thread. It's sad to see all the Carolina bashing. It makes me stop reading this board.
I wonder that Asada is that high up on the list, because she did not do the triple lutz but the triple flip twice (according to our commentator).
Rochette´s short programme is not good transitionswise, in my opinion. It looks like it were a 6,0 choreography, which is an disadvantage as the skaters are able to do more these days.
I was surprised about Meier´s placement, because her performance should have been higher up, in my opinion. Also I would have expected Meissner´s performance to be higher up. She also interpreted that music really well, much better than Kwan did, IMO.
Rochette´s short programme is not good transitionswise, in my opinion. It looks like it were a 6,0 choreography, which is an disadvantage as the skaters are able to do more these days.
I was surprised about Meier´s placement, because her performance should have been higher up, in my opinion. Also I would have expected Meissner´s performance to be higher up. She also interpreted that music really well, much better than Kwan did, IMO.
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Well, that explains something. "The European pride" is hurt. "The Asian tsunami" is annoying. And the American contingent (still) isn't powerful enough to rule out the "conflict"... =Р My history teacher (a former military officer) always said that in order to succeed, the offence forces' power should be at least three times greater than the one of the defending side. Considering all above, "9 out of 12" looks quite disturbing.
It also reminds me like Tarasova (whose "patriotic sense" probably has some narrower geography) couldn't believe for 15 consecutive minutes live when they placed Takahashi behind Lambiel at this GPF. Takahashi-san, you better take out that nice sword of yours. It seems the real fight (and the strongest dragons to slay) is just ahead. =Р
On the matter:
GO MAO!
Go Yukari!
Go Miki, Bebe and Kimmie!
And go Fleur Maxwell (my personal 'European pride'), wherever you are!
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- Joined
- Sep 30, 2006
Mao was placed first because she has a solid package. She may have done the flip twice but other skaters attempted two (fl)lutzes. I don't understand why Mao is overly-criticized for her edging issues. Many of the ladies have wrong edge take offs as well. Where's the fuss about Yukari, Kimmie, Meier (although I've read she's trying to fix it), Wagner, and possibly many others I can't think of at the top of my head.
Wow, Mao is in great form! The back end of her triple-triple was well rotated as were the rest of her jumps. She had her typical lovely flow across the ice. Of course anything can happen in the free skate, but I'm looking for her to win the overall by double digits.
Kim's score is actually low compared to how she has been scored all season. She's still the favorite for silver, methinks, but she'll have to fight for the landings of her 3Lzs.
Ando's jumps were solid and I think that'll be good enough for bronze.
Kostner's jumps were not as clean as they were at the GPF. With Ando's return, Kostner should be bumped down a spot.
Nakano's jumps were barely rotated. Her wrap is costing her at least a 1/4 rotation. She doesn't have a wrap on her 3A. You'd think she'd figure that the wrap is holding her back.
I prefer Ashley's more mature look. Nationals showed that she is close to getting her 3Lo combo, but she doesn't have it yet. And as expected, she has developed two-footing problems related to it.
It'll take a small miracle for Kimmie to move up to 4th and for either Ashley or Beatrisa to move up to 9th.
Kim's score is actually low compared to how she has been scored all season. She's still the favorite for silver, methinks, but she'll have to fight for the landings of her 3Lzs.
Ando's jumps were solid and I think that'll be good enough for bronze.
Kostner's jumps were not as clean as they were at the GPF. With Ando's return, Kostner should be bumped down a spot.
Nakano's jumps were barely rotated. Her wrap is costing her at least a 1/4 rotation. She doesn't have a wrap on her 3A. You'd think she'd figure that the wrap is holding her back.
I prefer Ashley's more mature look. Nationals showed that she is close to getting her 3Lo combo, but she doesn't have it yet. And as expected, she has developed two-footing problems related to it.
It'll take a small miracle for Kimmie to move up to 4th and for either Ashley or Beatrisa to move up to 9th.
