2023-24 US Pairs Figure Skating

[BlissfulSynergy]

I still haven't been able to see their free skate. (Does anyone have a link for a video that hasn't been removed? thanks )

I really love their short program to East of Eden. Besides the elements, Ellie and Danny complete each other's movements beautifully. that's one of the first things I noticed in this skate. Also, I feel like Ellie has grown into the partnership with her smiles and confidence.

The throw triples are indeed coming along. It was a wise decision to establish the quality of their skating last year. Now, it's a matter of developing everything and landing the triples, which I feel are more stable than some other pairs, not just US but international pairs.

Ellie Kam & Danny O'Shea USA - 2023 Challenger Series - Finlandia Trophy Long Program

SP: 1st, LP: 1st, gold medalOct 6th-8th, Espoo, FIN

youtu.be

It looks like the FS was up, then it disappeared, but was soon restored. Go figure.

I'm tentatively excited for the season. Too bad about Scott/ Siianytsia having to pull out of Boston Open. Honestly though, they are a very new team and probably need more preparation. For Hanns/ Neudecker, I wonder whether it was injury or some kind of illness, with recovery issues affecting their training time. They must have been bummed to have to pull out. It appears to me that H/N's Dracula/ vampire program is an inspiration picked up on by other teams in pairs and ice dance, e.g., Harris/ Chan; Beccari/ Guarise; and Stellato/ DesChamps. A Dracula themed program would have been perfect for SA in late October.

Good luck to all the competitors this weekend.

 

[skaterpups]

I just saw Hanns/Neudecker WD from Skate America. They are replaced by Martins/Bedard.

Any reason why?

 

[midori green]

Any reason why?

 

[skylark]

Here's an awesome article about Chelsea Liu and Balazs Nagy by Claire Coulter. https://adivinesport.com/2023/10/18/were-back-the-surprising-return-of-chelsea-liu-balazs-nagy/

Chelsea and Balazs looked so smooth, fast and in harmony at today's practice skates for SA. They marked the jumps and throws during their run-through, but the rest of their skating for the FS was just beautiful. The jumps that I saw outside the run-through were landed. I'm hoping that will ring true and that competition nerves won't cause mistakes but will give them an edge of excitement!

Did I mention that they looked like they were having fun on the ice? and their connection ...

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

Here's an awesome article about Chelsea Liu and Balazs Nagy by Claire Coulter. https://adivinesport.com/2023/10/18/were-back-the-surprising-return-of-chelsea-liu-balazs-nagy/

Chelsea and Balazs looked so smooth, fast and in harmony at today's practice skates for SA. They marked the jumps and throws during their run-through, but the rest of their skating for the FS was just beautiful. The jumps that I saw outside the run-through were landed. I'm hoping that will ring true and that competition nerves won't cause mistakes but will give them an edge of excitement!

Did I mention that they looked like they were having fun on the ice? and their connection ...

And their triple twist I can't think of a better one in the pairs field right now. Plus, their last lift in the free skate is one they invented/created themselves, which is so awesome. Hoping for a GP medal for them at SkAm

 

[Moxiejan]

And their triple twist I can't think of a better one in the pairs field right now. Plus, their last lift in the free skate is one they invented/created themselves, which is so awesome. Hoping for a GP medal for them at SkAm

Yes, the twist i saw was stunningly good!

 

[skaterpups]

Yay for Martins/Bedard! Solid and wonderful debut! Obviously plenty to work for but thank goodness to USFSA for monitoring a week before and making the decision H/N weren't capable.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

And their triple twist I can't think of a better one in the pairs field right now. Plus, their last lift in the free skate is one they invented/created themselves, which is so awesome. Hoping for a GP medal for them at SkAm

Yes, Liu/ Nagy's 3-twist is huge and seemingly effortless. It should be receiving 4s and 5s. Reminds me of Calalang/ Johnson's twist, in its height, ease, and effortlessness. It looks even more wow than C/J's, perhaps because of Chelsea's linear body type, with long legs. And with C/J being retired, they aren't around to compare with directly anymore.

L/N's twist is even better than Mishina/ Galliamov's (they turned up today on my YouTube feed in a Russian competition, otherwise, they wouldn't have come to mind).

Fingers-crossed that Chels figures out the jump landings consistently. I'm sure their technique adjustments on the throws will come together as they grow in experience with each other.

I had seen the below old videos of Chelsea with her earlier partner, Perini, sometime ago. What a pairs girl. I'm not sure how old Perini was at the time, but he looks like 'older Dad' next to young Chels.

1 Chelsea LIU / Devin PERINI (USA) - ISU JGP Czech Skate 2013 Junior Pairs Short Program

To license ISU footage: https://bit.ly/3M7bcaF 1 Chelsea LIU / Devin PERINI (USA) - ISU JGP Czech Skate 2013 Junior Pairs Short Program

youtu.be

1 Chelsea LIU / Devin PERINI (USA) - ISU JGP Czech Skate 2013 Junior Pairs Free Skating

To license ISU footage: https://bit.ly/3M7bcaF 1 Chelsea LIU / Devin PERINI (USA) - ISU JGP Czech Skate 2013 Junior Pairs Free Skating

youtu.be

Chels was always wonderful with lifts and spins. She was still growing and learning at that age re the twist, but so fearless and intuitive in the air. Plus, she was clearly not a natural jumper, her weakest elements.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Yay for Martins/Bedard! Solid and wonderful debut! Obviously plenty to work for but thank goodness to USFSA for monitoring a week before and making the decision H/N weren't capable.

Probably the better way to phrase it is that Martins/Bedard, at this stage, have more points-earning potential, and have shown more consistency. Plus, Grace was ill recently and H/N did not fare well in their most recent competition prior to Skate America.

H/N had made significant improvements since 2023 U.S. Nationals. Their Dracula program announcement and OIP video went viral during the summer, inspiring a number of similar vampire-themed programs in pairs and ice dance internationally. H/N's improvements and their Dracula program, garnered them deserved attention. Of course, H/N will need to continue to work hard, and to show consistency and steady improvement, in order to capitalize on their raised profile.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

So, I saw it mentioned that "Chan/ Howe are out..." The commenter must have meant that C/H are out of the GPF running. I checked updated pairs entries for GPs, and Chan/ Howe have been replaced by Valesi/Piazza at Cup of China, but C/H are still listed for NHK Trophy. Yet, I do not see any mention of this development in this thread. Nor have I particularly seen it mentioned anywhere else, which I find surprising. We really need a Figure Skating news updates broadcast network, post-haste, complete with skater interviews and profiles.

Has it been discussed and I simply missed it? I imagine that Spencer is still rehabbing from shoulder surgery, and he won't be ready for CoC in early November. NHK is at the end of November, so perhaps they are hopeful he will be ready by then.

The pairs scene makeup is changing constantly, what with Proft/Nadeau of Canada retiring after receiving a contract with Holiday on Ice. A surprising development, but it must make sense for them in terms of training costs, the fact they were injured in their first season last year, and in view of their ages and the fact that more professional avenues have been opening up in recent years for accomplished skaters, beyond the rigors and uncertainties of the competitive scene.

The expense and risk vs reward ratio of competitive skating, not to mention the politics, injuries, and limited opportunities, are something to ponder. This is especially true if, like P/N, you've competed for years in singles, moved to pairs and attracted praise and interest. P/N must have determined that progress in the competitive pairs arena is less certain than a bona-fide contract with HOI, traveling overseas and making decent money. Good for them, and I wish them much happiness and success in show skating.

 

[skaterpups]

Probably the better way to phrase it is that Martins/Bedard, at this stage, have more points-earning potential, and have shown more consistency. Plus, Grace was ill recently and H/N did not fare well in their most recent competition prior to Skate America.

H/N had made significant improvements since 2023 U.S. Nationals. Their Dracula program announcement and OIP video went viral during the summer, inspiring a number of similar vampire-themed programs in pairs and ice dance internationally. H/N's improvements and their Dracula program, garnered them deserved attention. Of course, H/N will need to continue to work hard, and to show consistency and steady improvement, in order to capitalize on their raised profile.

I don't see any improvement. I only see that the points and element execution has gotten worse. Their best score this year was 130 something with a lift put down. Last year there were competions where they scored 150+.


Once M/P and E/M get released I think there will be no space at the top unless like you said- there is massive improvement in the upcoming months.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I don't see any improvement. I only see that the points and element execution has gotten worse. Their best score this year was 130 something with a lift put down. Last year there were competions where they scored 150+.


Once M/P and E/M get released I think there will be no space at the top unless like you said- there is massive improvement in the upcoming months.

You misunderstand. I said that Martins/ Bedard show improvement, meaning in their personal development as pairs skaters. They have improved their technique, smoothness, polish, and maturity. That doesn't mean that they are competitive at the highest level domestically or internationally. I didn't say that. Unless they make enormous strides in a short period of time, it will take this young team awhile to make high level competitive progress. But where they are at now is a success for them and their personal goal-setting.

Looking at scores across events and at problems on specific elements, is not the point. M/B may have had problems on a lift because they have learned and are attempting a more advanced lift. Or, an edge caught on the ice, or the timing was off and the lift had to be put down. They may have been recovering from illness, which impacted their training. We need to keep such factors in mind before harshly judging athletes.

Skaters know when they have made personal progress. That's why M/B were happy. Yes, they were a little tight, and they weren't perfect, but they handled their senior GP debut well in their home country. That's an accomplishment, particularly when they weren't originally selected to compete at SA. I have followed Isabelle and Ryan from when they were much younger juniors, and Isabelle was a tiny sprite next to Ryan. So, it's really nice to witness how much they have grown as people, and as athletes.

The just completed ladies event at Skate Canada bears witness to how tough this sport can be. An athlete can be as prepared as possible, raring to go, and things don't always go as planned. Figure skating progress is measured in increments, and there are always ups-and-downs. Not everyone goes to an event with the goal of medaling. The focus is on meeting reachable goals and managing competition nerves. M/B accomplished a good result for them at SA. More Importantly, they gained invaluable senior level international event experience.

P.S.
Now I see that you are apparently referring to Hanns/ Neudecker. When they debuted their Dracula program, filmed by OIP, they definitely looked improved from what they had shown at 2023 U.S. Nationals. Grace, in particular, seemed to have developed a better ability to land her jumps. Plus, their program concept, music, and choreo are excellent, and have inspired others to adopt similar programs this season.

I didn't get a good look at H/N at the John Nicks event. The video quality was horrible. From what I could see, H/N weren't outstanding at JN, but they have made progress since early 2023. Back in January, I wasn't sure of the direction they would be heading. So I still say H/N have made progress in their partnership, with still many improvements needed. Grace apparently took ill recently, so that must have affected their training time, and they didn't feel ready to compete at SA.

 

[skaterpups]

You misunderstand. I said that Martins/ Bedard show improvement, meaning in their personal development as pairs skaters. They have improved their technique, smoothness, polish, and maturity. That doesn't mean that they are competitive at the highest level domestically or internationally. I didn't say that. Unless they make enormous strides in a short period of time, it will take this young team awhile to make high level competitive progress. But where they are at now is a success for them and their personal goal-setting.

Looking at scores across events and at problems on specific elements, is not the point. M/B may have had problems on a lift because they have learned and are attempting a more advanced lift. Or, an edge caught on the ice, or the timing was off and the lift had to be put down. They may have been recovering from illness, which impacted their training. We need to keep such factors in mind before harshly judging athletes.

Skaters know when they have made personal progress. That's why M/B were happy. Yes, they were a little tight, and they weren't perfect, but they handled their senior GP debut well in their home country. That's an accomplishment, particularly when they weren't originally selected to compete at SA. I have followed Isabelle and Ryan from when they were much younger juniors, and Isabelle was a tiny sprite next to Ryan. So, it's really nice to witness how much they have grown as people, and as athletes.

The just completed ladies event at Skate Canada bears witness to how tough this sport can be. An athlete can be as prepared as possible, raring to go, and things don't always go as planned. Figure skating progress is measured in increments, and there are always ups-and-downs. Not everyone goes to an event with the goal of medaling. The focus is on meeting reachable goals and managing competition nerves. M/B accomplished a good result for them at SA. More Importantly, they gained invaluable senior level international event experience.

P.S.
Now I see that you are apparently referring to Hanns/ Neudecker. When they debuted their Dracula program, filmed by OIP, they definitely looked improved from what they had shown at 2023 U.S. Nationals. Grace, in particular, seemed to have developed a better ability to land her jumps. Plus, their program concept, music, and choreo are excellent, and have inspired others to adopt similar programs this season.

I didn't get a good look at H/N at the John Nicks event. The video quality was horrible. From what I could see, H/N weren't outstanding at JN, but they have made progress since early 2023. Back in January, I wasn't sure of the direction they would be heading. So I still say H/N have made progress in their partnership, with still many improvements needed. Grace apparently took ill recently, so that must have affected their training time, and they didn't feel ready to compete at SA.

She had a fractured foot at Nationals per Danny's instagram, thats why they performed poorly there. Their earlier performances were promising however.

In reference to them inspiring Dracula programs, that is false because there was a Dracula movie out in April "The Last Voyage of the Demeter", which is where their music was chosen from. This was before they announced their program- high level skaters don't like to piggyback off each other but rather be the first (which never works out) and pick their programs out far ahead in the season.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

She had a fractured foot at Nationals per Danny's instagram, thats why they performed poorly there. Their earlier performances were promising however.

In reference to them inspiring Dracula programs, that is false because there was a Dracula movie out in April "The Last Voyage of the Demeter", which is where their music was chosen from. This was before they announced their program- high level skaters don't like to piggyback off each other but rather be the first (which never works out) and pick their programs out far ahead in the season.

So you're saying it's the new Dracula movie that inspired all the vampire themes in pairs. I still say the reveal of H/N's program helped inspire some skaters, depending upon when others made their choices. I don't know about your reference to skaters not 'piggybacking' on each other. A well-known case is Debi Thomas choosing Carmen, and famously working with ballet dancer, Edward Villella. Kat Witt def 'piggybacked' on Debi's idea by also choosing Carmen, on purpose after Debi announced. Thus, the infamous promo tag of the 1988 Olympics: Battle of the Carmens, which inspired the Battle of the Brians promo tag. Sometimes, for sure, similar choices are coincidences (which may be the situation with so many vampire themes). But not always.

Thanks for letting me know about Grace's fractured foot. Ouch.

 

[cheerknithanson]

Liu/Nagy took the NHK spot that was left vacant by Chan/Howe.

 

[ladyjane]

What a pity Howe's shoulder is taking longer to heal than the couple first thought. Good to take the time though, however frustrating it might be!

 

[yuki@thelake]

Initial advancement information for pairs to the US nationals

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Liu/Nagy took the NHK spot that was left vacant by Chan/Howe.

Yep, I saw this yesterday. I sure hope Spencer is healed, and that he & Emily will be able to compete at U.S. Nats in January. The U.S. pairs discipline is fortunate to have so many promising new teams with prior pairs experience coming up.

In fact, there are supposed to be at least 10 teams entered for the U.S. pairs final, in November (NQS for Nationals). Liu/ Nagy were also listed, but they should have a bye to Nationals. Thus, since the limit for pairs is 12, and with a total of five byes (Chan/Howe; Kam/O'Shea; Plaz/Fern; Mokhovs; & L/N), only 7 teams from the Finals can compete at Nationals. Three teams will have to be cut. I would suspect the two most recent, lesser known teams with lowest scores, McFarland/ Gillette, and Wessenberg/ Caputo, won't make it. The third team who might not make it is a question mark, but I would suspect perhaps Ouellette/Newby-Estrella. But others, such as Fitzpatrick/ Bearinger, and Hanns/ Neudecker will need to be in good form to go unscathed.

Remaining teams at Pairs Final:

1) *Alisa Efimova/Misha Mitrofanov 185.04 (Boston Open) *should be eligible for the ISP in April 2024
2) *Katie McBeath/Daniil Parkman 181.39 (Middle Atlantics), 170.46 (Glacier Falls) *should be eligible for the ISP in Dec. 2023
3)* Chelsea Liu/Balazs Nagy ISP 177.66 (SkAm), 165.20 (Autumn Classic Int'l), 175.91 (Glacier Falls) * BYE
4) Isabelle Martins/Ryan Bedard ISP 154.66 (SkAm), 152.64 (Autumn Classic Int'l), 135.17 (John Nicks IPC), 157.05 (Glacier Falls)
5) Ellie Korytek/Timmy Chapman (ISU age-ineligible) 156.18 (Glacier Falls)
6) Nica Digerness/Mark Sadusky 155.27 (Broadmoor Fall Classic)

(above list is copied from another reference source)

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

BTW, please does anyone know what has happened to Scott/ Siianytsia?? Are they still a team? Their joint IG account does not appear to still be up. Plus, they pulled out of Boston Open, right? That comp was needed for them to have a chance at qualifying for Nationals.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

If Daniil Parkman is released in December, he and Katie would be eligible for 2024 Worlds. Efimova/ Mitrofanov are not ISP eligible until April 2024, thus perhaps Katie/ Daniil have an outside chance of making the World team, especially if C/H are not back for Nationals. Hopefully, C/H will be back and in good competitive shape.

I say that because C/H were 5th at 2023 Worlds, and it will help overall to have a top experienced, high-ranked team at Worlds to maintain the sorely needed 3 spots. Kam/ O'Shea were 12th at 2023 Worlds, and they are looking good this season. K/O are seemingly mid-tier in terms of scores, but should improve from their 12th place showing with more advanced elements, and relatively clean performances. U.S. pairs need placements of 4 and 9; or 5 and 8; or 6 and 7; or better, to keep three spots.

So, perhaps C/H, K/O, and either Liu/ Nagy, or McBeath/Parkman, will make the 2024 Worlds team. But L/N have more international competitive experience at this point than M/P.