2023 Skate Canada: Ice Dance Thoughts?

[4everchan]

I'm sure you mean P/P (Piper/Paul) not G/P (Green/Parsons).

Way before Green Parsons came to be, GS users referred to Piper and Paul as GP. When Green/Parsons teamed up, some did refer to them as Gr/Pa... GP was always Gilles and Poirier...

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Way before Green Parsons came to be, GS users referred to Piper and Paul as GP. When Green/Parsons teamed up, some did refer to them as Gr/Pa... GP was always Gilles and Poirier...

Oh right! How could I forget?! Thanks for the reminder. Sorry @GWTW. My bad.

It's probably best to spell out names with the first mention. Especially since Green/ Parsons were also being discussed in this thread.

 

[DancingCactus]

Piper and Paul are magic. Both programs are wonderful in a completely different and fresh way. How many new lifts, holds, spin poses have they come up with this season alone?
Also, I want her pants from the RD and his shirt from the free. Although I wouldn't want to wear them at the same time. xd

I like F/G's RD but think their free needs a lot if work, less gimmicky stuff and no slow version if eye of the

I absolutely hated what R/A did to Guns n Roses and the 80s in general. Their free was nice, but the music didn't really work for me and the costumes didn't match the theme at all as far as I understood what they wanted to express.

The Brown's are fast and delightful, but still a but junior-ish.

Overall, more interesting programs than at SA I think.

Piper and Paul in my opinion have way better programs than C/B this season, plus I think they are better skaters. And they are special.
And while I don't really like F/G's free, I still think they looked physically more powerful and dynamic than C/B did last week. Now I haven't seen the Italians, the Danadians or the Finnish team yet, but GPF is going to be interesting for sure.

 

[rain]

Edit: Sorry @rain. I see now that you are referencing Gilles/ Poirier, not Green/ Parsons.

I am glad that Green/Parsons went back to the aesthetic they are so good at. This FD looks good on them, but some fans are making inevitable comparisons to their amazing 2021 - 2022 FD. I like this FD, and I don't think comparisons are needed. But, while the new FD is lovely, it does not have the same amazing impact. But that's okay. They are trying to regain their footing after losing so much momentum last season.

While Gr/Pa are excellent ice dancers, last year's programs were too generic, which had fans buzzing in a negative way and that hurt their standing. Starting this season off with problems in their RD, was also not helpful. But, they changed it for a new RD immediately, which is interesting because they didn't make huge changes last season when they received lots of criticism for their FD being a step backward.

At this stage, I think Chock/ Bates are definitely hoping to stay for another Olympics, though they are taking it one year at a time. For Piper & Paul, I wonder if they win Worlds in Montreal whether they will retire? I suppose they may continue to another Olympics, as long as they remain healthy, which will be great to see happen. I feel like raving over P/P's new programs, but steady as we go.

I agree with everything you said about Green/Parsons last season. I think this year's FD should help them regain ground, and their new RD is fine, if not a standout, so I think they'll be comfortably either second, if Hawayek/Baker are not back, or third. I think Carreira/Ponomarenko lost even more ground in the last few years so they're making an even steeper climb. Haven't seen their material this season, yet, so no comment at this point. I think they, in particular, need to be worried about Zingas/Kolesnik.

Piper and Paul's new programs are spectacular.

 

[rain]

Piper and Paul are magic. Both programs are wonderful in a completely different and fresh way. How many new lifts, holds, spin poses have they come up with this season alone?
Also, I want her pants from the RD and his shirt from the free. Although I wouldn't want to wear them at the same time. xd

Though with the pale pink colour of Paul's shirt they could do a Miami Vice theme, lol. (That's not a diss on the shirt, which I actually love.)

 

[4everchan]

Watched Piper and Paul again with, in mind, comments read here or in the competition threads.

Costume : actually, in the practice, Paul's shirt was too loose. He tucked it in better in the program and I have no issue with it now. I actually would wear it

Speed : of course, it's hard to see how fast they skate but a lot of the music is built on long, sustained phrases. What matters to me in that case is that the skaters do not decelerate. I think they were keeping their flow throughout. The French CBC commentator thought they were going quite fast (but they are not at the rink either, but would have more experience than I would ) Speed to me is nothing if movements are not fully completed or rushed. Not the case for Piper and Paul. I do feel, just from watching on the stream, that they have good flow and ice coverage. They glide so smoothly. The one part we can see them decelerate is before the spin... well that's normal (BTW that spin was awesome and should get more credit from the judges on GOE). Finally, there was no blatant posing in this program. It is what I like about Carol Lane work with Piper and Paul : the elements are usually well integrated into the program to create a seamless experience. It really helps the viewer to get into the emotion and story-telling.

 

[gsk8]

Gilles and Poirier win fourth consecutive Skate Canada title

2023 Skate Canada: Ice Dance Canada's Piper Gilles and Paul Poirier won their fourth consecutive Skate Canada title on Saturday afternoon in

www.goldenskate.com

While they are thrilled with their standing ovations, they also hope to reach the people watching from afar. Gilles also admitted that this free dance was harder to get into than Evita.

"In the story, the main character kind of turns into a ghost," explained Gilles of the costume. "On one had we have the pink-reddish color for love, but also the greyish touch that represents it all fades away and disappears."

 

[el henry]

While everyone is gushing over Piper and Paul, I don't want my babies to be lost.

Oona and Gage, such improvement over even one week in speed and edges and precision! I love their RD, the FD needs to grow on me.

I do wish they had different costumes. This is ID and packaging matters. When I win the lottery, I will donate generously to a costume fund.

 

[GoneWithTheWind]

While everyone is gushing over Piper and Paul, I don't want my babies to be lost.

Oona and Gage, such improvement over even one week in speed and edges and precision! I love their RD, the FD needs to grow on me.

I do wish they had different costumes. This is ID and packaging matters. When I win the lottery, I will donate generously to a costume fund.

A great result for them to place above Z/K and P/B here, and earn new PBs across the board, plus getting all 8s in the components in the FD.

I agree about the costumes although I understand they have some funding struggles. Hopefully as their results continue to improve, they'll get some more funding and prize money!

 

[4everchan]

While everyone is gushing over Piper and Paul, I don't want my babies to be lost.

Oona and Gage, such improvement over even one week in speed and edges and precision! I love their RD, the FD needs to grow on me.

I do wish they had different costumes. This is ID and packaging matters. When I win the lottery, I will donate generously to a costume fund.

The FD is not exciting at all... I don't like the music juxtaposition at all, nor the costumes. Having back to back GPs for them was a huge advantage and they seized their opportunities. Now they need to keep working hard to solidify their ranking among US teams. Before the competition, I assumed they would rank behind both Z/K and P/B... Sure, both of these teams had errors in the RD which were costly but didn't earn back their spots in the FD, so it's a wake up call for them. The Browns can make up ground. However, I do not think they will make enough ground to pass CP and Gr/Pa and of course H/B (if they come back for Nationals) and CB. Lots of Bs in American dance.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Piper and Paul are magic. Both programs are wonderful in a completely different and fresh way. How many new lifts, holds, spin poses have they come up with this season alone?
Also, I want her pants from the RD and his shirt from the free. Although I wouldn't want to wear them at the same time. xd

I like F/G's RD but think their free needs a lot if work, less gimmicky stuff and no slow version if eye of the

I absolutely hated what R/A did to Guns n Roses and the 80s in general. Their free was nice, but the music didn't really work for me and the costumes didn't match the theme at all as far as I understood what they wanted to express.

The Brown's are fast and delightful, but still a but junior-ish.

Overall, more interesting programs than at SA I think.

Piper and Paul in my opinion have way better programs than C/B this season, plus I think they are better skaters. And they are special.
And while I don't really like F/G's free, I still think they looked physically more powerful and dynamic than C/B did last week. Now I haven't seen the Italians, the Danadians or the Finnish team yet, but GPF is going to be interesting for sure.

Wow, you definitely make some interesting points.

There are simply not enough adjectives to express how wonderful Piper & Paul are. Fantastic showing in their new season debut at SC! I'm all in!

My honest take is that Piper/ Paul have the edge over C/B, and the scores show that too. However, I have respect for both veteran teams. They are both different partnerships, and each have different personalities, with unique styles of their own.

I admit to not liking Chock/Bates early in their partnership. Then, the season C/B worked with Rohene Ward, I was impressed by their risk-taking and their willingness to break outside-the-box. Eventually, I thought C/B were done. Then, they moved to I.AM, and I was blown away those first two seasons by the eye-opening programs M-F Dubreuil created for them. And they built from there, creating more memorable programs (such as The Snake) and battled valiantly with other U.S. and international ice dance teams. I am glad they have decided to continue. I have tremendous admiration and respect for C/B, and I enjoy watching their skating. Madison has a creative eye for costume design, and she's gorgeous and sexy.

Piper/ Paul had me at 'Hello,' with their Pure Imagination (Maroon 5) and Sweet Dreams (Eurythmics) program, in their first season together. They have taken us on a magnificent and wondrous journey, moving from strength to strength! What a great blessing; What a great gift their partnership is!

One word too about risk-taking. All these athletes respect each other because they all know that taking risks doesn't always work out, or it can take time to make things work, while at other times, creative ideas bloom magically. After they seemed a bit flat and not at their best in the 2021-22 Olympic season, Piper/ Paul blazed back last year as fresh and creative as ever! ️ And then, this season

I enjoy watching Allison & Saulius too. I find them energetic, committed and physically well-suited. I can't comment on your view of their RD, as I am not that knowledgeable about what ice dancing to Guns & Roses in a proper 80s aesthetic, is supposed to look like, or not look like. I recall Mark Hanretty commenting though that R/A's music and the required 80s theme is very different from their style aesthetic. At the same time, Hanretty praised R/A's effort. So, Bravo to them!

Figure skating can be exhilarating, thrilling, frightening, boring, annoying, exhausting, and uplifting. It can beat us and the athletes down, but if we persevere, it can also inspire, give joy, and express all the emotions. As P/P aptly chose to portray this season, all emotions stem from love. Thus love and hate are two opposites of a whole complexity! I love when skaters express emotion and a story through their skating.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

What's going to happen in U.S. ice dance is gonna be much more than a huge 10-course meal. We are being fed this season! 🍽

How it will all pan out is anyone's guess. That's why we watch!

And yes, kudos are definitely in store for the Browns. It's no small accomplishment what they are achieving this season after they appeared at such a low ebb in January 2023. Onward and upward for all hard-working ice dance teams.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I agree with everything you said about Green/Parsons last season. I think this year's FD should help them regain ground, and their new RD is fine, if not a standout, so I think they'll be comfortably either second, if Hawayek/Baker are not back, or third. I think Carreira/Ponomarenko lost even more ground in the last few years so they're making an even steeper climb. Haven't seen their material this season, yet, so no comment at this point. I think they, in particular, need to be worried about Zingas/Kolesnik.

Piper and Paul's new programs are spectacular.

C/P lost ground b/c they switched coaches which is hard enough w/o your partner (Pono) needing ankle surgery and the long recovery from that.
They are doing much better with Anthony healed and under Moir, Hubbell, Diaz, etc.. coaching/choreography. This season thus far, they were on the podium with silver at Finlandia, and 4th at Nebelhorn.

 

[GoneWithTheWind]

I agree about the costumes although I understand they have some funding struggles.

Further to my comment earlier...

As per commentary from Kaitlyn Weaver during the ice dance event, the Browns camped in a tent when they went to IAM in Montreal!?

I think this needs a bit more context: was this by choice, as a fun holiday? Or could they genuinely not afford accommodation (I understand Montreal can be quite expensive). If the latter, surely someone from IAM could've found a spare room for them for the 3 weeks they were there?

Source: https://twitter.com/twistandtwizzle/status/1718687357195419996

 

[DancingCactus]

I enjoy watching Allison & Saulius too. I find them energetic, committed and physically well-suited. I can't comment on your view of their RD, as I am not that knowledgeable about what ice dancing to Guns & Roses in a proper 80s aesthetic, is supposed to look like, or not look like. I recall Mark Hanretty commenting though that R/A's music and the required 80s theme is very different from their style aesthetic.

Well, I'm certainly no ice dance expert, bug I am a huge GnR fan. First of all they got the look wrong: Allison's outfit did not have an 80s shape at all, the pants sat too low on the hips and the top was all wrong, her hair and makeup was also totally contemporary. There are enough GNR music videos to get inspiration from. His outfit was also too busy imo. I'm not saying you have to do 80s cosplay in the RD, but I think the look should at least be reminiscent of the epoch you want to embody.

Regarding the performance: In Welcome to the Jungle Axl pretty much orgasms through the song and he also had a distinctive way to move on stage that wasn't reflected in their movements at all although I'm not sure how to integrate that into an ID performance. A bit more hip shaking probably Their concerts basically brim with kinetic energy.

Regarding the music, Paradise City is a very frantic song and the fastest and most spectacular part is the solo. They cut the music right before the song's climax though.
I feel if you choose music from a specific band you can't just cut out the most important parts and call it a day, you have to amplify them with your performance. Or choose a different song.
For example, C/B cut some of the most iconic songs from Dark Side of the Moon in a way they fit together almost seamlessly and still kept each song's essence.

Tbh I think there are GnR songs that are probably better suited for figure skating than what R/A chose. But I might also be completely mistaken

 

[apgold]

I love all the 80s music fans coming to the boards to give their opinions about the music choices. As I thought, there are still too many Michael or Janet Jackson programs, but the occasional surprise happens.

I was gob smacked that Piper and Paul chose the relatively obscure original "No More I Love Yous" by the English synthpop group The Lover Speaks paired with the more well known "Addicted to Love" by the late Robert Palmer.

Everyone seems to know the Annie Lennox version which was on her amazing 1995 "Medusa" covers album but I seem to be one of the few who remember the original. It was chosen as a "Screamer of the Week" on WLIR in 1986 when I was growing up - where listeners voted by phone for their favorite new song of the week. (If you love 80s new wave/ alternative, please watch the 2017 documentary "Dare to Be Different" directed by Ellen Goldfarb for more on WLIR and its success in the early to mid 80s on Long Island, NY).

Robert Palmer was also played on the station, as well as his collaboration with Chic and Duran Duran members called The Power Station. I'm surprised nobody has chosen The Power Station for Ice Dance this season, that would have been great. And it's not like Annie Lennox was ignored, since F/G did their RD to her band Eurythmics "Sweet Dreams/Here Comes the Rain." Although "Sweet Dreams" has been done before, it's not a warhorse yet.

I also appreciate that Paul's hair is cut into a modified mullet, so he's bringing the 80s with his hair. I remember when they did the 70s number a few years ago, his hair looked 70s appropriate, too.

I also appreciated the Canadian team of Lanaghan/Razgulajevs doing their RD to the "Footloose" soundtrack which had some cohesion or a theme. Too many of these 80s numbers are seemingly thrown together randomly.

​

 

[Jeanie19]

I love all the 80s music fans coming to the boards to give their opinions about the music choices. As I thought, there are still too many Michael or Janet Jackson programs, but the occasional surprise happens.

I was gob smacked that Piper and Paul chose the relatively obscure original "No More I Love Yous" by the English synthpop group The Lover Speaks paired with the more well known "Addicted to Love" by the late Robert Palmer.

Everyone seems to know the Annie Lennox version which was on her amazing 1995 "Medusa" album but I seem to be one of the few who remember the original. It was chosen as a "Screamer of the week" on WLIR in 1986 when I was growing up - where listeners voted by phone for their favorite new song of the week. (If you love 80s new wave/ alternative, please watch the 2017 documentary "Dare to Be Different" directed by Ellen Goldfarb for more on WLIR and its success in the early to mid 80s on Long Island, NY).

Robert Palmer was also played on the station, as well as his collaboration with Chic and Duran Duran members called The Power Station. I'm surprised nobody has chosen The Power Station for Ice Dance this season, that would have been great. And it's not like Annie Lennox was ignored, since F/G did their RD to her band Eurythmics "Sweet Dreams/Here Comes the Rain." Although "Sweet Dreams" has been done before, it's not a warhorse yet.

I also appreciate that Paul's hair is cut into a modified mullet, so he's bringing the 80s with his hair. I remember when they did the 70s number a few years ago, his hair looked 70s appropriate, too.

I also appreciated the Canadian team of Lanaghan/Razgulajevs doing their RD to the "Footloose" soundtrack which had some cohesion and a theme. Too many of these 80s numbers are so randomly thrown together.

​

Flashdance would have been epic.

 

[apgold]

While everyone is gushing over Piper and Paul, I don't want my babies to be lost.

Oona and Gage, such improvement over even one week in speed and edges and precision! I love their RD, the FD needs to grow on me.

I do wish they had different costumes. This is ID and packaging matters. When I win the lottery, I will donate generously to a costume fund.

They are reusing their costumes from their hip hop RD - I have seen these costumes 2x in person at Ice Theatre of NY, so I recognize them instantly. I hope by the time Nationals comes around, they will have gotten new costumes. I also love that the judges are finally showing them some love but it was a bit weird to me that their scores increased quite a bit over a one week period. Maybe the I.AM politicking is starting to pay off and this wasn't a one time thing.

 

[ladyjane]

Piper & Paul: I salute you. I thought it would be difficult to surpass Evita but they did with Wuthering Heights. Just think: I originally felt Vincent would be their pinnacle. What a pair! Original, new, choosing an 80's programme that is unexpected. And the expression in the Free. My o my, I am gushing over them. Those programmes: what a feast. Not that I don't like others, I do. But Piper and Paul did it. Again!

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Well, I'm certainly no ice dance expert, bug I am a huge GnR fan. First of all they got the look wrong: Allison's outfit did not have an 80s shape at all, the pants sat too low on the hips and the top was all wrong, her hair and makeup was also totally contemporary. There are enough GNR music videos to get inspiration from. His outfit was also too busy imo. I'm not saying you have to do 80s cosplay in the RD, but I think the look should at least be reminiscent of the epoch you want to embody.

Regarding the performance: In Welcome to the Jungle Axl pretty much orgasms through the song and he also had a distinctive way to move on stage that wasn't reflected in their movements at all although I'm not sure how to integrate that into an ID performance. A bit more hip shaking probably Their concerts basically brim with kinetic energy.

Regarding the music, Paradise City is a very frantic song and the fastest and most spectacular part is the solo. They cut the music right before the song's climax though.
I feel if you choose music from a specific band you can't just cut out the most important parts and call it a day, you have to amplify them with your performance. Or choose a different song.
For example, C/B cut some of the most iconic songs from Dark Side of the Moon in a way they fit together almost seamlessly and still kept each song's essence.

Tbh I think there are GnR songs that are probably better suited for figure skating than what R/A chose. But I might also be completely mistaken

Thank you. I appreciate your explanation. We can certainly all learn from each other. You make excellent points. It's easy for a team to pick certain music from an era they are not accustomed to, and get pertinent details wrong. You should message R/A, if they have IG accounts. Or drop a line to their coaching team.