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It's the opposite. It turns into the same prolonged discussion where Ilia's detractors constantly find him overscored in PCS.
2023-24 Grand Prix Final Senior Men Short Program
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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It's the opposite. It turns into the same prolonged discussion where Ilia's detractors constantly find him overscored in PCS.
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I wouldn't call myself or some of the others who commented on the 9.75, detractors. Sorry.
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It looks like you had a pretty good match judge #2 (FIN):Kao 8.25 8.25 8.75
Ilia 9.00 8.75 8.50
Adam 8.25 8.25 8.75
Kevin 9.00 9.25 8.75
Yuma 9.00 9.25 9.25
Shoma 9.25 9.50 9.50
Out of 18 marks, only one is off by more than half a point.
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There are prolonged discussions from both camps. IMHO both are correct in their own way.
The BV of the 4A ( which was assigned before Ilya did it.. so this choice wasn't directed at him) is too low. It should be worth slightly less than double the 3A, since that's the case with most quads. So, the pro Ilya camp is correct on this. However, this is related to the judging system itself and not the way the judges did their job.
However, the PCS truthers are also correct. A lot of the PCS is in reality not particularly subjective. You can like whomever you like and find him/ her exciting but that doesn't give them better SS or better execution of or complexity of choreography. This is related to how they judges misapply the PCS bullets.
The one group I disagree with completely is the GOE was wrong group. There are reasons Yuma won the GOE not Ilya and those reasons are in harmony with bullet points.
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Well, both of us dont have 'our skaters' competing for the win, so
Kao 8.25 8.25 8.75
Ilia 9.00 8.75 8.50
Adam 8.25 8.25 8.75
Kevin 9.00 9.25 8.75
Yuma 9.00 9.25 9.25
Shoma 9.25 9.50 9.50
Out of 18 marks, only one is off by more than half a point.
But still, i would give less 9's and scores above that comparing to her 
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to me the biggest scandal in this short program is shoma's creepy "I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you" music. so wack. would have been much better with only clair de lune. stephane has questionable taste at best.
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I actually think this attitude is getting increasingly common and it's not isolated to a handful of fans of certain skaters anymore (some even seem to take this attitude with not just a skater/team but skaters from an entire country). Though perhaps a small section of fans are just really prolific in their comments.
It's almost like a lot of people have forgotten how to type "i prefer this" or "i dislike this". The words "overscored" or "underscored" have become like code for those sentences.
Which is annoying as actual genuine discussion about scoring gets lost in it.
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Ilia and Yuma totally robbed they should be 10 points ahead of Shoma.
It goes without saying that giving such a low base value to the 4A is holding the sport back. Why not make the 3A worth little more than a 3Lz? Why is the 3A so inflated?
Back to the short program, what is going on with these officials where they reward cheated landings with high GOE. It's either incompetence or corruption? Which is it?
The flip is at a minimum an underrotation close to being downgraded.
At a minimum the first jump on the combo should be an underrotation (look at the massive prerotation on the 4T it's a 3T), and the second jump should get one too but at the very least a q.
Ilia should have a 10 point advantage over Shoma for tomorrow.
This has ruined this entire men's event. I'm afraid someone is going to miss out on the medal they deserve.
It goes without saying that giving such a low base value to the 4A is holding the sport back. Why not make the 3A worth little more than a 3Lz? Why is the 3A so inflated?
Back to the short program, what is going on with these officials where they reward cheated landings with high GOE. It's either incompetence or corruption? Which is it?
The flip is at a minimum an underrotation close to being downgraded.
At a minimum the first jump on the combo should be an underrotation (look at the massive prerotation on the 4T it's a 3T), and the second jump should get one too but at the very least a q.
Ilia should have a 10 point advantage over Shoma for tomorrow.
This has ruined this entire men's event. I'm afraid someone is going to miss out on the medal they deserve.
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Shoma's 4F and combo should have negative GOE on that basis he's facing the wrong way as he touches the ice, massive prerotation nearly 270 degrees on the 4T.
It's not so much that Ilia is underscored, but relative to Shoma Uno, Ilia is massively underscored.
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If you do not like the music combination, the fault lies with the director and film scorer for the movie "Everything Everywhere All at Once" , and not Stéphane.
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The level of mens skating right now is so high, watching this competition (even replayed on Peacock) was the highlight of 2023 for me. I didn't think anything would top winning a third place ribbon for knitwear at the Ohio State Fair, but boy was I wrong. The judging made me reach for the Bailey's, but that only made it more fun.
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The " I love you, I love you, I love you" perfectly expresses my feelings about Shoma when he's skating. Are you saying I'm a creep?
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The minus 5 is indeed ridiculous. I think that judge made an error on the rules rather than believe that the quad axel was not good.
When Mao Asada was doing a triple axel in the SP back then, she had to use it as a combo and have a solo jump taken on steps as well as a 2axel. So her layout was 3a+2t, I think she did a 3f and then a 2a. Nowadays, women can use either the 2a or 3a for the axel type required jump.
This is very hypothetical but is there a chance that the judge thought it ought to be in combo? and then because it wasn't gave it a minus 5??? I really cannot see an explanation other than that. A judge who forgot a rule?? An honest mistake? This is what I would think it was rather than a vicious attempt to discredit a very strong and spectacular element.
Men's is the only discipline that has clearly progressed technically in the last 4-6 years. Solo triple jumps are becoming rare in the top 5, and now we have beautifully executed quad axels. That quad axel is so astonishing. It's the defining element of this Olympic cycle. I would love to see it get something like 18-20 points. It's clear that the audience loves it too, and it's confusing to see it not get what it deserves. I can see why Ilia is kind of miffed about the whole thing. He's the only one who can do it, and everyone wants to see it, and when he goes out and does it, he gets rewarded by one point more than his PB, lol. I always felt that the general audience (not diehard FS fans) watches single skating for the jumps, so personally, I think ISU is holding back the sport by not rewarding it more and capitalizing on this breakthrough.
The director and film scorer didn't force Stéphane to choose it for Shoma's program! Love Shoma, but I put the music on mute.
The director and film scorer didn't force Stéphane to choose it for Shoma's program! Love Shoma, but I put the music on mute.
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I haven't had time to watch yet and somehow I'm not sure I even want to. Ilya's PCS are ridiculous.
Also, I hope Adam will have a great free.
Also, I hope Adam will have a great free.
The competition was so great, it would be a pity to miss one of the most exciting competitions of the season just because the scores for one of the men seem ridiculous to you.
While I personally found the PCS too high for Ilia after seeing the actual competition, he did skate really well, and it was a historic performance, and all of the other men also put out performances worth appreciating. Even Adam, with the pop in the jump, still did his best to perform throughout.
Also, concluding that someone's PCS are too high without seeing the actual performance is also putting skaters into boxes. Skaters can improve, and they can also regress.
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Well, judges also put skaters in boxes, so why would I not?
I'm sure I'm gonna watch it sometime in the next days, but looking at the scores has already soured me on the whole thing.
I'm sure I'm gonna watch it sometime in the next days, but looking at the scores has already soured me on the whole thing.
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I have a different experience. Sometimes my boyfriend (representing the general audience) accompanies me to FS competitions and he isn't able to distingiush a quad from a double and doesn't care to. However, he remembers different programs, and often brings up his favourite performances to me years later, asking what became of this or that skater.
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yeah, whenever I force someone to watch a performance they are absolutely clueless about things like rotations - I could sell an underrotated double with a completely wrong edge as something special to them
they love fast spins and will look at the costumes and the music and the (fake) smiles - they will only care about the jump difficulty because of the score box
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Just to clarify, I wasn't implying that Kao's overall PCS should've been higher than Ilia's just that Ilia should be appreciative of the PCS he was awarded (and maybe he wasIlia should've been happier...he was awarded higher PCS than my child
...waiting for y'all to come at me~
)I rarely complain about Kao's PCS since I usually feel he is adequately evaluated and often generously scored
Between the two, I feel Kao exhibits better SK and I would also give him a slight edge in CO for the simple fact that he's able to cover and utilize so much ice without relying on too many? crossovers to generate speed and flow...so basically SK
However, though I personally connect to Kao's performances (I always have but also know how much effort he puts into them) I realize what he's delivering is just not convincing as wide of an audience compared to Ilia, regardless if this is mainly due to his extraordinary jumps
So Ilia over Kao in PR which for me, evens them out on overall PCS
You just LOVE to hate on Kao!
The way he skates, his jumps, the way he (under)performs, the competitions he assigned to, his scores...he's never worthy
For someone who thinks Kao is so inadequate and undeserving, you sure pay a lot of attention to him
One would think he was consistently being egregiously overscored and robbing your favorites of medals and opportunities
You have the right to your opinions and I respect that
If his skating is not your cup of tea, fine...you don't have to watch him
But give the kid a break~
His skating career was held back for many years...partially due to his own decisions but also factors out of his control
He knows and admits to his areas of incompetency and is working hard to improve
His assignments and scores are determined by others and all he can do is try to perform his best to achieve his goals
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