2023-24 Grand Prix Final Senior Men Short Program

[el henry]

yeah, whenever I force someone to watch a performance they are absolutely clueless about things like rotations - I could sell an underrotated double with a completely wrong edge as something special to them
they love fast spins and will look at the costumes and the music and the (fake) smiles - they will only care about the jump difficulty because of the score box

I have a different experience. Sometimes my boyfriend (representing the general audience) accompanies me to FS competitions and he isn't able to distingiush a quad from a double and doesn't care to. However, he remembers different programs, and often brings up his favourite performances to me years later, asking what became of this or that skater.

Definitely my experience as well, not only with "non-skating" fans, but with myself. I find well executed jumps to be exciting, they are definitely not the most exciting part of a program for me, and the day I write that I am easily counting rotations, you will know I am kidnapped.

I do have one small cavill: there is no such thing, in a good program, as a "fake" smile. A skater with true performance chops can communicate the emotion of the music. And not necessarily just by the gentle lift of the eyebrow, the extension of the arms, the sound of the blades on ice, but also by gasp, physical expression.

That doesn't make the less "sophisticated" expression fake. Or those of us who like those expressions uncultured or unknowledgeable.

 

[Isk]

yeah, whenever I force someone to watch a performance they are absolutely clueless about things like rotations - I could sell an underrotated double with a completely wrong edge as something special to them
they love fast spins and will look at the costumes and the music and the (fake) smiles - they will only care about the jump difficulty because of the score box

My experience as well. Someone I know who is not a fan and doesn't watch figure skating, once went to watch women's SP at Skate Canada with his family, and Satoko Miahara was the only skater he remembered from the event. He said that all the girls did more or less the same things about equally well (probably not true ), but she took two strokes and she was at the other end of the rink, that's what impressed him the most from the whole women's event.

 

[SXTN]

If you want to talk about something else, how about we talk about Kagiyama not doing anything with his arms between his first 2 jumping passes. Literally, nothing. Music's playing, Kagiyama stroking with his feet. That's the choreo we are here for, right?

Or Shoma's choreo. He is skating on two feet throughout the whole program doing (beautiful) crossovers and that's it.

 

[icewhite]

Definitely my experience as well, not only with "non-skating" fans, but with myself. I find well executed jumps to be exciting, they are definitely not the most exciting part of a program for me, and the day I write that I am easily counting rotations, you will know I am kidnapped.

I do have one small cavill: there is no such thing, in a good program, as a "fake" smile. A skater with true performance chops can communicate the emotion of the music. And not necessarily just by the gentle lift of the eyebrow, the extension of the arms, the sound of the blades on ice, but also by gasp, physical expression.

That doesn't make the less "sophisticated" expression fake. Or those of us who like those expressions uncultured or unknowledgeable.

Oh, of course it's not a question of knowledge, in the end it's just a question of taste. I only dislike it when people ask for lower scores because someone does not have extensive facial expressions. Apart from that I treat it like costumes or music. Personally I find it annoying and cringe, at least on tv, when you see it up close, when it's too much or just throughout the program without connection to the content.

 

[SXTN]

...Ilia was amazing technically but please stop rewarding skaters who are weaker in PCS with high scores for no reason. He is working on his PCS scores and improving, but he is not a 44.37 PCS skater, and it is unfair to both the other skaters and him, because he will start to receive hate online (which is absolutely unacceptable) for those scores, which he has little control over, and it disincentivizes improvement. I guess I don't agree with the point differential between Ilia and Yuma/Kevin, there is just over a point of PCS difference which is... not correct lol

Figure skating is an unfair corrupt sport, deal with it.

If we apply overall fair judging to everybody, Shoma's tech would be significantly lower because his 4T was < and his 4F is an invalid element because technically it is not even a Flip, let alone it is called "quad" with only 3,25 revolutions.

 

[cheerknithanson]

Sad to see that some people are never going to be happy.

 

[Skating91]

Sad to see that some people are never going to be happy.

I just feel bad for Ilia.

 

[cheerknithanson]

I just feel bad for Ilia.

He's clearly trying to be better at performing.

 

[lariko]

I just feel bad for Ilia.

Yeah, me too.

 

[ChiGal]

Just an observation here, and a bit off-topic so hopefully the mods will allow? What is with the flower/toy girls handing toys directly to the skater, even before they get off the ice? I find it annoying, and I am sure the skaters do to, especially if you had a not-so-great skate. Don't the flower/toy girl supervisors go by the unwritten rule--never approach the skater while they are on the ice? When Adam SIAO HIM FA exited the ice after his short, a clueless flower/toy girl skated directly in front of him as he got to the exit. Could have caused a collision...are they just looking for a TV moment? After a tough skate or even a good one, the last thing you want is someone shoving stuffed animals at you.

 

[Skating91]

He's clearly trying to be better at performing.

I agree. I think he's fantastic. The performances have improved. People are unnecessarily hard on him (just my opinion). He gets shown no mercy.

 

[Skating91]

Just an observation here, and a bit off-topic so hopefully the mods will allow? What is with the flower/toy girls handing toys directly to the skater, even before they get off the ice? I find it annoying, and I am sure the skaters do to, especially if you had a not-so-great skate. Don't the flower/toy girl supervisors go by the unwritten rule--never approach the skater while they are on the ice? When Adam SIAO HIM FA exited the ice after his short, a clueless flower/toy girl skated directly in front of him as he got to the exit. Could have caused a collision...are they just looking for a TV moment? After a tough skate or even a good one, the last thing you want is someone shoving stuffed animals at you.

The whole aspect of some kind of substance could be planted on a toy by someone with malicious intent should be considered as well. It could be absorbed by the skin, they might rub their lips with a contaminated finger, rub their eyes, etc.

 

[Isk]

I find it a little bit phoney , when Shoma points fingers at random spectators in the beginning of the program to "I love you". I think this program might have been nicer had they used Clair de Lune throughout. It would give Shoma a chance to do a program to a fully impressionist romantic classical music piece (which I think he's never done), it would go well with his skating style.

Son Lux, Ryan Lott and Ian Chang (whoever they are) win today's prize for the most repetitive love confession.

 

[Mathman]

No reason to feel sorry for Ilia. He skated great and is leading.

 

[Skating91]

No reason to feel sorry for Ilia. He skated great and is leading.

He did. But he shouldn't be under as much pressure going into tomorrow because he did his job while another skater failed on most of his jumps but has almost the same score. This is not right to me. I accept that the scoring of the 4A is hugely prejudicial and he knew the risk/reward going into it and attempted it anyway because he wants to be a champion that pushes the sport to new heights, that's not my issue. I just want the judging to be honest, if a jump is not rotated then penalise it. Because the officials didn't follow the rules now Ilia is under unnecessary pressure.

 

[Jeanie19]

He did. But he shouldn't be under as much pressure going into tomorrow because he did his job while another skater failed on most of his jumps but has almost the same score. This is not right to me. I accept that the scoring of the 4A is hugely prejudicial and he knew the risk/reward going into it and attempted it anyway because he wants to be a champion that pushes the sport to new heights, that's not my issue. I just want the judging to be honest, if a jump is not rotated then penalise it. Because the officials didn't follow the rules now Ilia is under unnecessary pressure.

I don't think Ilia is under extra pressure. His tech content in the long program is a lot, his combos are unbelievable. The short program there isn't much more he can do and he is in the lead.

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

I've noticed that there seems to be a lack of nuance in regards to the PCS discussion. For example, Yuma and Shoma do a lot of two-foot skating, yes, but the speed they generate with few crossovers and their edges, as well as the combinations of turns in their step sequences, are the best in the field. Ilia has lots of transitions and facial engagement in his programs, but his skating skills are the weakest of the field. Kao has fantastic speed, but that is often sacrificed for depth of edge. Kevin is an amazing performer, but it sometimes comes in and out while he's focusing on the jumps. All of the skaters here are good at specific PCS categories, and have weaknesses in others. And they should be scored as such; skating skills doesn't affect performance (in this case), and vice versa. I wish judges would employ a wider range in the scores to reward skaters in what they excel at, and fans to apply the same logic. Yes, component scores form one total point score, but we should acknowledge the variations within that score rather than flat-out say it's wrong. We also need to look at point differential rather than combined score - numbers mean nothing across competition. What do the marks say about how this skater compares to another? And finally, we need to remember that judges are human. One likely forgot to change his -5 for Ilia's 4A and initally marked it as an invalid element - it sucks but it happens. Karen Chen's layback spin got a -5 from a judge at (I think it was the Olympics) for no reason besides what I will assume was a judge oopsie. They were probably excited to witness a history-making moment, which does contribute to PCS interpretation. And harping on PCS for days on end changes nothing, because so much of this is subjective and it's also a bit rude to the skaters. The scoring is done, now let's move on to tomorrow.

 

[lariko]

I don't think Ilia is under extra pressure. His tech content in the long program is a lot, his combos are unbelievable. The short program there isn't much more he can do and he is in the lead.

That what bothers me. The guy literally pulled out all the stops, maxed out everything humanly possible (okay, 4Lz+3Lo was a king of kings kind of possibility)...and that gave him a less than 1 point lead? There's something rotten in the Kingdom of Denmark, I say.

Someone said they don't do him any favors by scoring his PCSs in the 9s, but they do him even less favors by pushing him to compete in a different playing field than everyone else because he doesn't sit as low in the knees as naturally as the other boys. Like, if any of the other five in that final would have suddenly landed 4A, they would have been in the lead by over 5 points if not more, I am sure of it. And if Malinin fell on his attempt, they wouldn't score him at 90.

 

[SXTN]

harping on PCS for days on end changes nothing, because so much of this is subjective and it's also a bit rude to the skaters. The scoring is done, now let's move on to tomorrow.

You have started the discussion with your early post where you complained about Malinin's PCS score in comparison to the japanese skaters, calling it "unfair". Just to remind you of your own action that caused some reactions. Don't project your own behavior onto others.

 

[YuBluByMe]

You just LOVE to hate on Kao!
The way he skates, his jumps, the way he (under)performs, the competitions he assigned to, his scores...he's never worthy
For someone who thinks Kao is so inadequate and undeserving, you sure pay a lot of attention to him

He’s competing at a competition that I am watching . Therefore, he’s open to any criticism. I pay him no more attention than I do most other skaters since I’ve only ever had anything to say about him at a competition . I’ve said very little about him at this particular one so I hope you recognize the irony of you paying too much attention to my posts. You’re also exaggerating as I absolutely do not complain about Miura’s jumps. His jumps are the last thing I’ll have complaints about. I even said once said his 4T combo was the best in the world. Surprised you missed that. Also, I appreciate it if you don’t put words in my mouth. I’ve not once said that he’s inadequate or undeserving. Thank you in advance.

One would think he was consistently being egregiously overscored and robbing your favorites of medals and opportunities

My favorite skaters are beating him, though, so surely one shouldn’t be thinking that.

You have the right to your opinions and I respect that
If his skating is not your cup of tea, fine...you don't have to watch him
But give the kid a break~

Yes, I do have a right to my opinions and I will keep expressing them, even the negative ones. You’re sensitive to what I say about Miura because you’re a fan. That’s fine. But you’re going completely to the left. I don’t criticize him more than any other skater (it just seems that way to you) and believe me…what I say about him is actually mild by my standards. It’s completely fair for me to say that I think Miura should be scored below Aymoz after what he put out on the ice. And, by the way, (since you made a few wrong assumptions), I prefer Miura’s SP to Aymoz’s.