59th ISU Congress: Watch and Discuss

[TallyT]

She's 20, but besides the point. There is so much stylised movement (also to the genre of the song) in this routine that it's very difficult to miss, in my opinion.

As you brought up her age and gender - Is that one of the things important to you to see connection to the music? Did you also have difficulty finding the connection to the music in for example Brown/Brown's "Nothing else matters" because it's actually a love song and they are siblings, as well as being in their mid-teens when they skated to the music? Would a male skater doing "Black Swan" be difficult to connect to for you?
Does something like this connect better with you if you know that she lost the Olympic gold with the routine before and almost didn't do this routine because she was so devastated? (The music used is "Valse Triste" - sad Waltz)

Is there music that is impossible to really connect a routine (if in gymnastics, figure skating or dance) to because of its story, or can any character be portrayed by a person and if so, is the age and gender of a person important in portraying a story?

Oh dear. I did NOT intend to start an argument on the worth or appeal of gymnastics (I was just commenting on the costumes and logos, truly! - heaven knows it would be a duller world if only sports I liked were played) so I apologise for any derail.

 

[saine]

On edge? The woman from Ireland started the problem by shouting fire and she was wrong to begin with. Secret anything is not the right thing to do. And whatever articles get written because of the lack of transparency, they will surely deserve.

If the delegates are concerned about how the issues are being voted on, it is better to take their time to vote on it and make sure that no one has any reason to object. That's not a lack of transparency on the delegates part. Just because you do not agree with it does not mean that their concerns should be dismissed. They need to be assured that the votes are being counted in a transparent manner and that the totals make sense to them. If a secret vote accomplishes that, then so be it.

 

[Karoltyna]

She's 20, but besides the point. There is so much stylised movement (also to the genre of the song) in this routine that it's very difficult to miss, in my opinion.

As you brought up her age and gender - Is that one of the things important to you to see connection to the music? Did you also have difficulty finding the connection to the music in for example Brown/Brown's "Nothing else matters" because it's actually a love song and they are siblings, as well as being in their mid-teens when they skated to the music? Would a male skater doing "Black Swan" be difficult to connect to for you?
Does something like this connect better with you if you know that she lost the Olympic gold with the routine before and almost didn't do this routine because she was so devastated? (The music used is "Valse Triste" - sad Waltz)

Is there music that is impossible to really connect a routine (if in gymnastics, figure skating or dance) to because of its story, or can any character be portrayed by a person and if so, is the age and gender of a person important in portraying a story?

I wrote very long comment about how figure skaters are actors and there is a storytelling in fs and no acting or storytelling in RG - at least in this particular routine and this comment got somehow deleted. Probably for the better, so we can end this offtopic here.
Yes, she is 20, my mistake.
But I'd like to see male Black Swan, it would be refershing.

 

[Arigato]

If the delegates are concerned about how the issues are being voted on, it is better to take their time to vote on it and make sure that no one has any reason to object. That's not a lack of transparency on the delegates part. Just because you do not agree with it does not mean that their concerns should be dismissed. They need to be assured that the votes are being counted in a transparent manner and that the totals make sense to them. If a secret vote accomplishes that, then so be it.

I never said anyone's concerns should be dismissed. My post was about secrecy vs transparency. And if someone can't understand that the total votes don't have to be the same total as the number of people in the room since you can't force MORE people to vote, there is a problem. Furthermore, far worse than the woman from Ireland not understanding simple logic were two USA guys who seem to think the entire sport should eat crow for the benefit of a single American male. As an American, it was embarrassing. There was far more going on in that room and the world needs to be able to see it and hear it. Not hide it.

 

[Mathman]

Don't want to step on your toes, but can you please just try to explain what about for example this routine is disconnected from the music? I'm genuinely asking.

That was a great routine Perfectly in character with the music. Plus, the performer looks like a healthy young athlete. I can remember the days when rhythmic gymnasts were expected to look like walking skeletons and the positions seemed merely grotesque.

 

[FlossieH]

I watched rhythmic gymnastics once. My soul writhed in agony. I have no desire to watch ever again. I certainly didn't see any connection between what they were doing and the music, not like when as a young pup I watched Toller and immediately felt and saw that visceral connection.

That said, different strokes for different folks, and let them do whatever they do . Jumping off, and not directed at this comment, I don't have a problem with a commercial logo. I do love costumes, and if a tasteful initials or some such logo gets a discount or a free costume for a skater, I'm all for it.

You might enjoy Nicole Ruprecht's work. She was outperformed technically by other gymnasts, but her artistry and performance skills always stood out to me because she put more emphasis on interpretation. I think rhythmic gymnastics is starting to evolve again at the moment because the new scoring system has added a separate mark for artistry which is forcing gymnasts to think more about how they are interpreting the music. Previously it had just been difficulty and execution.

 

[Arigato]

Skating goes behind closed doors in 2024. News at 11.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

I wrote very long comment about how figure skaters are actors and there is a storytelling in fs and no acting or storytelling in RG - at least in this particular routine and this comment got somehow deleted. Probably for the better, so we can end this offtopic here.
Yes, she is 20, my mistake.
But I'd like to see male Black Swan, it would be refershing.

Yes, let's end this here. However, I just want to say, that I don't agree,
And we are back to the age-old story of "What is artistry?", I guess What is storytelling and is it necessary to tell a story to be artistic, or are there other kinds of artistry - Reflecting the character of the music like traditional dances for example, or expressing an emotion without having a specific story attached to it.

For people who want to explore this for themselves, I will leave two routines here that could not be more different. Decide for yourself which one is artistic, if neither of them is, or if both are

Is this routine (only the first) one telling a story? Maybe not, but it expresses a specific character of music and type of movement:


Is this routine telling a story? Yes, at least it is supposed to - The story of different Summer Olympic sports. Can you see it?

 

[Mathman]

But I'd like to see male Black Swan, it would be refershing.

Here's Rudy Galindo at 1996 U.S. Nationals. (But he's portraying Baron Von Rothbart, not Odile. )

Rudy Galindo - 1996 U S Figure Skating Championships, Men's Long Program

www.youtube.com

 

[el henry]

I'm surprised that ISU does not have a rule about number of votes/number of persons.

I belong to an organization whose rules forbid "rocket dockets" in instances where multiple persons are running for multiple spots. If there are four open spots, and your ballot does not have four votes, (usually because you want to privilege one candidate by voting only for them) your ballot is discarded. So an organization can indeed "force" people to vote, or have them abandon their right to vote.

But of course that depends on the organization deciding on that rule.

I have never belonged to an organization that did not have votes by secret ballot. But I understand the interest in "How did country X vote" in this instance.

 

[Mathman]

And we are back to the age-old story of "What is artistry?", I guess What is storytelling and is it necessary to tell a story to be artistic, or are there other kinds of artistry ...

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. For me I found the first (solo) performance incredibly artistic

In fact, sometimes trying to tell too literal a story or to portray too detailed a character can detracts from the artistic impact rather than enhancing it.

In the group number, the artistry is in the choreography rather than in the performance. Like synchro figure skating (a wonderful discipline that deserves more attention from figure skating fans, IMHO).

 

[Mathman]

But I understand the interest in "How did country X vote" in this instance.

I think that's the point. Like at a political nominating convention, each delgatation stands up and says. "The great state of Idaho (or whoever) casts 14 votes for the next President of the United States, Senator Sam Snowjob!!!!"

 

[NaVi]

I haven't watched any of the congress, but I saw this on sports.ru.

● “innovative” (this is a quote) tournament formats - they are planning to present them at the Congress;
...
● expansion of the tournament calendar - to minimize the off-season;

Anyone have any more details on this? This is the only place I've seen this mentioned. I personally want to move away from the grand prix format to multiple tournaments that have differentiating rulesets and regional qualifiers.

 

[Mathman]

@NaVi I think that even withput any formal proclamations, the significance and popluarity of, for insyance, the Challenger Series is on the rise.

 

[saine]

I haven't watched any of the congress, but I saw this on sports.ru.

Anyone have any more details on this? This is the only place I've seen this mentioned. I personally want to move away from the grand prix format to multiple tournaments that have differentiating rulesets and regional qualifiers.

From what I watched from the Forum: Vision 2030 presentation, the tournament format they were talking about the most was for Short Track Speedskating. It's the Short Track World Tour. They're planning for countries to have team names (French Roosters for example) and uniforms with team logos. They seemed pretty excited about it.

 

[NaVi]

@NaVi I think that even withput any formal proclamations, the significance and poplualrity of, for insyance, the Challenger Series is on the rise.

I kind of disagree with this. Finlandia is the only Challenger series event that ever felt almost at the level of a Grand Prix and could consistently get an ok crowd and now it's a Grand Prix event.

 

[lariko]

So, they are removing the jumps. Screw them. Maybe I will boycott this season in protest or something. I feel I need to express my anger and displeasure somehow.

 

[TallyT]

There does seem to be an element (from the reports here, I'm not watching it sorry not sorry and thank you to those who are and reporting) that there's a large element of 'throw everything at the wall and see what sticks'.

Which - to be fair - sometimes does work!

 

[Mathman]

So, they are removing the jumps. Screw them. Maybe I will boycott this season in protest or something. I feel I need to express my anger and displeasure somehow.

I think it's going t be OK. For fans who prize rptational jumps above all, it's not the number of jamps that is impressive, but rather the quality and difficulty. We do not, after all, despise short programs for having only three jumping passes instead of 6 or 7.

 

[cheerknithanson]

So, the motion to remove the proposal that reduced the number of jumps failed by 1 vote. As such, the proposal moves forward as a package and will most likely be passed. The proposal that was removed will be voted on tomorrow, 241, focuses on the choreo spin and whether skaters can repeat the same type of jump three times. Before everyone panics, the removal of one jumping pass would mean that Ilia could still do one of every type of quad. Most men will remove a triple flip or lutz, and the women can do a full-triple program and avoid doing a solo double axel or triple sal. This will put more value on each individual jumping pass, so skaters will want to skate cleaner and do more difficult programs with the jumps they do have. Of course, I tend to be a bit of an optimist, and I know lots of people will have strong feelings on this, but I think none of us can fully pass judgement until we've seen it in action.

Does this still mean there might be a chance that the proposal fails and there will still be 7 jumps in a FP?