2024-25 Senior Grand Prix Final Men's Free Skate

[Mathman]

I thought that the scoring of the top two was quite interesting. Malinin got negative GOE on all seven of his jumping passes. He also got the longest string of q's, and <'s that I ever remember seeing on an ISU protocol, plus a fall. He got positive GOE on all of his spins and steps, but that's chiump change in the iJS. When it was all tallied up. Yuma won the LP but Ilia's SP lead held up.

I seems like there should be some sort of moral to the tale. But I guess not. Score as many points as you can and hope that it's more than the other guy.

 

[museksk8r]

The question now is whether he dials it back or cleans it up at US Nats and in Boston.

Unfortunately, Ilia hasn’t skated a clean FS at Nationals since 2022 where he competed against Nathan Chen and Vincent Zhou. He hasn’t had to be clean at Nationals to win or podium since then, so I don’t expect him to dial back or clean things up for Nationals, but for Boston, yes, I would think he wants Worlds to go a lot smoother than today went.

 

[4everchan]

Ilia had the highest PCS in the short program, and the second highest in the long. So you got your wish.

LOL please don't twist my words. I don't think Ilia should get PCS near Yuma's anytime.

Look, the guy isn't ever going to be the artiste some think he should become, but that doesn't mean he's not delivering his own brand in terms of components. As much as I'm not a big fan of the music, at least he's being authentic to himself. As so long as he's hitting the PCS criteria, he's going to be fine, and rightfully so.

he can get points for presentation if you wish for that... but skating skills ? composition when it's a jumping drill ? sorry but not in my book...

And by PCS criteria, I do not mean "the type of skating I enjoy the most." Ted and Mark expounded on this in the free dance when discussing the Italians' robot program. Essentially, it doesn't matter what individuals may prefer, it's about whether they hit the PCS bullet points.

The Italians are a good example of composition gone wrong leading to a bad Free dance but they have great skating skills and they sell their composition... and there is a composition... so yes, they hit the PCS requirements.. (bullet points are for GOE)

 

[Arigato]

Congrats to Ilia for second place in the free, but I prefer Shaidorov's history-making 3A+4T with positive GOE this season. That kid needs some funding for training.

 

[TontoK]

he can get points for presentation if you wish for that... but skating skills ? composition when it's a jumping drill ? sorry but not in my book...

Your book is meaningless. My book is meaningless. The rule book matters.

You've been abundantly clear. You don't appreciate Malinin's skating. We get it. I promise, we get it.

And it's fine. Because there are plenty of competition-successful skaters and fan favorites that I don't enjoy. It's part of being a fan of the sport.

 

[4everchan]

Your book is meaningless. My book is meaningless. The rule book matters.

the rule book keeps changing so it's fair that some of us feel like sharing what we'd like in that rule book

You've been abundantly clear. You don't appreciate Malinin's skating. We get it. I promise, we get it.

i like his jumps... when he performs them well.. i wouldn't say I dislike him completely. Don't slim pick I have shared a million times how exciting his worlds performance of his LP was... I stood up and cheered loudly I give props where props are deserved.

And it's fine. Because there are plenty of competition-successful skaters and fan favorites that I don't enjoy. It's part of being a fan of the sport.

that is very true. Sometimes we like the underdogs... Sometimes it evolves... I didn't like Papadakis and Cizeron at first... and in the last few years of their career, I got to appreciate them better and better and better until I completely was moved by their Fauré FD. It sometimes takes one program to become an unconditional fan....

I think skating fans are sometimes thinking way too much about this : I follow tennis... There are players I like in the top ten and others i don't like... and it's just personal... it has nothing to do with "artistry" sometimes it's on court persona... sometimes it's how they act in interviews... sometimes it has to do with how they won a match and fought and ran each ball... sometimes it's random... and sometimes, even, it has to do with a certain look nothing about PCS here... just personal preference. I have a long list of male skaters I really like. Ilia is just not on it though I respect and value what he has brought to the sport.

 

[Arigato]

I thought that the scoring of the top two was quite interesting. Malinin got negative GOE on all seven of his jumping passes. He also got the longest string of q's, and <'s that I ever remember seeing on an ISU protocol, plus a fall. He got positive GOE on all of his spins and steps, but that's chiump change in the iJS. When it was all tallied up. Yuma won the LP but Ilia's SP lead held up.

I seems like there should be some sort of moral to the tale. But I guess not. Score as many points as you can and hope that it's more than the other guy.

Boyang Jin tried that in 2016. He still lost to Patrick Chan who jumped half the number of quads. Lesson? Just learn to skate well. It takes time and effort.

 

[noskates]

I like Ilia and I liked his programs and I think the judges were out to get him on anything they could. Why? Probably for the same nonsensical reason people are criticizing him in this thread. He isn't a Jason Brown - let's agree on that. But not all past men's champions have been outstanding in presentation. The one that comes to mind immediately is Elvis Stojko! In fact, Nathan Chen wasn't the most lyrical skater. For whatever it's worth, Ilia is one of the more exciting male skaters to come along in a while. Maybe he doesn't produce the warm fuzzies that some are stuck on, but you can't say he's boring. And he has brought a lot of attention to the sport (more so than Daniel Grassl's tired white t-shirt) there are always people that are going to hate on someone who is talented and successful and tear them down. Whatever!

 

[4everchan]

I like Ilia and I liked his programs and I think the judges were out to get him on anything they could. Why? Probably for the same nonsensical reason people are criticizing him in this thread. He isn't a Jason Brown - let's agree on that. But not all past men's champions have been outstanding in presentation. The one that comes to mind immediately is Elvis Stojko! In fact, Nathan Chen wasn't the most lyrical skater. For whatever it's worth, Ilia is one of the more exciting male skaters to come along in a while. Maybe he doesn't produce the warm fuzzies that some are stuck on, but you can't say he's boring. And he has brought a lot of attention to the sport (more so than Daniel Grassl's tired white t-shirt) there are always people that are going to hate on someone who is talented and successful and tear them down. Whatever!

hate is a big word here. expressing preferences doesn't equate to that.
btw, since you mention Nathan, I thought he was wonderful. He always looked good on the ice from every angle. His body awareness was spot on. His lines were refined. Was he the most lyrical ? Nope but what he did, he did with extreme care. That's what artists do in other fields. You may not like all musicians or all painters, but you can appreciate those who put in the extra mile and show refinement. That's what I hope for Ilia, that he finds his way to show attention to detail in his presentation and skating skills.
YMMV

 

[museksk8r]

Artistically, no less than Jean-Luc Baker praised him for developing his artistry so beautifully (while Jean-Luc commented on practices at SA). Then, look what he's done today. He pushed himself technically during the free skate. That's very risky, especially at an important competition like the Grand Prix Final! How many of those harping on what people see as his limitations give him credit for what he DOES do, so brilliantly and so beautifully?

Don’t you think American broadcast commentators are going to promote Ilia in any way possible though? And, yes, he has improved a lot artistically from where he was 2 seasons ago, but let’s be honest, that was an extremely low bar. I’ve seen plenty of junior and novice skaters who skated and presented better than Ilia did two season ago. He’s America’s lone hopeful for a men’s Olympic gold medal, so of course American broadcasters are going to comment that he is improving artistically, which he has, but he has a long way to go before he will be remembered for his artistry. Perhaps that is not his prerogative, and that’s okay for him and his fans. He can be this generation’s Elvis Stojko or Evgeni Plushenko, the athlete supreme. I do give him credit for his technical prowess; becoming the first man in history to land a 4Axel is absolutely phenomenal! I will cheer him on to perform his incredible feats, but I will always want and wish for a complete skater to win. Right now he is so far removed from my style preference, and that’s alright, as long as he is going the journey that makes him happy and he’s having fun and being true to himself, and most importantly, staying healthy. I would never, ever wish for Malinin to attempt to portray ballet on ice.

In 1992, wow, ‘92, so many fantastic skaters, but my favorites did not prevail. I would have wished for any of Christopher Bowman, Kurt Browning, or Paul Wylie to win, but a silver for Paul was sweet. In 1994, I really wanted a win for Browning, but unfortunately, we know what happened there. In 1998, I thought Ilia Kulik was so talented and I was happy for his win, but I, like many others, wanted him to burn his FS costume. In 2002, I was cheering for Alexei Yagudin to win, long before he showed the world how unpleasant he is as a person on Instagram. In 2006, I was cheering for Stephane Lambiel to win, but his Games had a silver lining. In 2010, I was cheering for Daisuke Takahashi to win after Jeremy Abbott’s meltdown, but an Olympic bronze followed by a world gold was a pleasing result. In 2014, yikes, that was such a messy men’s event, I just wanted to forget it, but I was so pleased that Denis Ten medaled. I wanted Patrick Chan to skate cleanly and win, but it wasn’t meant to be. In 2018, I liked all of the medalists, and it was nice to see Yuzuru Hanyu skate better to win. In 2022, I was all about Nathan Chen winning and I really wanted him to have redemption after a really rough 2018 Games. For 2026, I see myself all behind Yuma Kagiyama at the moment, but I would also be pleased to see Adam Siao Him Fa win. As the blade turns, who knows what will happen, but one thing that’s for sure is that it will be too exciting for my nerves to take.

 

[Arigato]

I like Ilia and I liked his programs and I think the judges were out to get him on anything they could.

Frankly, I listed the tech panel in my top 3 favs list for the whole GP event. They didn't miss a hair. This sport should be so lucky to have them at every ISU event.

 

[museksk8r]

hate is a big word here. expressing preferences doesn't equate to that.
btw, since you mention Nathan, I thought he was wonderful. He always looked good on the ice from every angle. His body awareness was spot on. His lines were refined. Was he the most lyrical ? Nope but what he did, he did with extreme care. That's what artists do in other fields. You may not like all musicians or all painters, but you can appreciate those who put in the extra mile and show refinement. That's what I hope for Ilia, that he finds his way to show attention to detail in his presentation and skating skills.
YMMV

Beautifully stated and I wholeheartedly agree!

 

[Arigato]

In 1998, I thought Ilia Kulik was so talented and I was happy for his win, but I, like many others, wanted him to burn his FS costume.

I loathed that yellow giraffe. Worst costume ever.

 

[cailuj365]

Boyang Jin tried that in 2016. He still lost to Patrick Chan who jumped half the number of quads. Lesson? Just learn to skate well. It takes time and effort.

Except the lesson this week is that Ilia still won. Yuma is not Patrick Chan, and Ilia is really not Boyang Jin.

Ilia could have gone out there today and done like 3 quads and idk, 5 triples or something without any underrotations, skated conservatively and probably would have extended his lead, but Ilia is just not that guy at GPF. This is a guy who did 4A in the SP last year without being 100% sure if it would be valid or not. His mentality is beyond what I can comprehend, and that's what makes him special and why he's a star. Like I said before, he's a prototype, the first of his era in skating. The anticipation is very high every time he steps on the ice, and... yeah, you know what, I'm not sure I would like him any better even if he had better skating skills. He's interesting beyond all the normal qualities of what usually make a "complete" skater. The ambition, the confidence, the innovation -- it's why he stands out. Also, at least judging from my Netherlands VPN, he dwarfs all his other competitors in YouTube views, whether he has a bad skate or a good skate, so he's definitely doing something right. The view tracker of the Worlds gala last year from the ISU stream is also pretty illuminating. It's very clear when he's on the ice.

Of course, views and anticipation do not translate to points and scores, and he's NOT a shoe-in for every title. He's not perfect, he's got very good rivals, and so he has got a lot to work on and figure out for the rest of the season.

 

[Ruthypegs]

I don't know. I see a young guy who is doing what he loves and making money out of it.

As Ted said, Ilia mentioned he almost didn't want to compete in Montreal last year.. mental health, fatigue, pressure...
If I were his fan, I would certainly be concerned about worlds in Boston then. The pressure will be much bigger. Same for Amber but she has a different attitude.

Mismanaged talents have happened in the history of figure skating/sport in general (if you follow tennis you know what I am talking about) but I am not thinking it will get that far.

I think at this point, the first bit of the season is over and now the real stuff starts. Let's see what he chooses to do. I wish he would work on his basic skating which is super rough but he won't if the judges give him. 8.5/9s in PCS. So then, he can work on the quality of the elements, because clearly, he got negative GOE on every single jumping pass today.

I wish the judges would mark PCS fairly - awarding Ilia (and other skaters with high technical scores) such high PCS marks means many skaters are focusing on jumps to maximise their marks and programmes are becoming increasingly empty and tedious.

As much as I'm in awe of what these athletes can achieve technically, I'm fast losing interest in singles skating. PCS scores seem to be randomly generated, bearing no relation to performance qualities and awarded only in relation to jumps. The New Zealand judge awarded Ilia 92.40 PCS for the free....

I am not criticising the skaters - they are amazing athletes and are only trying to maximise their chances of success. It's the judging/marking that really needs overhauling.

 

[Olly96]

Shun's FS was an absolute highlight to me. Despite the fall, I have never seen him skate this program better. His speed and precision were wonderful and he was accenuating the music quite nicely. It is amazing to know that he is so dedicated to polishing his skating skills and presentation. So happy he got his first GPF medal!

 

[Karoltyna]

I like Ilia and I liked his programs and I think the judges were out to get him on anything they could. Why? Probably for the same nonsensical reason people are criticizing him in this thread. He isn't a Jason Brown - let's agree on that. But not all past men's champions have been outstanding in presentation. The one that comes to mind immediately is Elvis Stojko! In fact, Nathan Chen wasn't the most lyrical skater. For whatever it's worth, Ilia is one of the more exciting male skaters to come along in a while. Maybe he doesn't produce the warm fuzzies that some are stuck on, but you can't say he's boring. And he has brought a lot of attention to the sport (more so than Daniel Grassl's tired white t-shirt) there are always people that are going to hate on someone who is talented and successful and tear them down. Whatever!

Ilia isn't similar to Elvis. They share the power in their jumps but nothing else. Elvis was a bit stiff untill he completed his quads and combos and then some magic on ice happened and he changed into a different skater - he enjoyed his programs and presented them well. Ilia isn't still nowhere near Elvis when it comes to skating and presentation but I see lots of potential in him. Maybe with differed crew he can evolve to versatile skater.
(yes, I'm long time fan of Elvis)
I think the judging was fair - Ilia wasn't overscored and all his mistakes were noticed. He won bc he was better in SP and Yuma wasn't clean and got lower levels on some elements and this is how it should be. When healthy and not struggling with mental attitude Adam isn't there, Ilia wins even if he doesn't skate the lights out. Period.

 

[Karoltyna]

Ilia is a double gold medalist on the Grand Prix and the best skater in the world. Why on earth would he go to Poland?

Probably bc he wanted to escape his team? He feels they aren't acting in his best interest and probably wants to be remembered as oustanding skater, not just the guy who jumped 4A. He is smart guy and knows what his weaknes is.

 

[Mathman]

Boyang Jin tried that in 2016. He still lost to Patrick Chan who jumped half the number of quads. Lesson? Just learn to skate well. It takes time and effort.

That's why I say that there is no real lesson to be learned. Sometimes the big jumper ends up with the most points, sometimes the skater with other skills does.

 

[Magill]

Your book is meaningless. My book is meaningless. The rule book matters.

The problem starts when the rule book is meaningless, too...