Is Flatt USA's best hope for 3 in LA?

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think it is very unlikely that USFS will send anyone to Worlds other than whoever finishes first and second at U. S. Nationals.

True, they re-wrote the by-laws this year to make it more clear that they can send whoever they want, based on how well skaters did at other competitions. But this year they do not really owe anyone any special favors.

Michelle Kwan got a special favor in 2006 because she was Michelle Kwan. Kimmie Meissner got a special favor last year because she was a former World Champion and, in spite of everything, was a better bet than Katrina Hacker to score well at Worlds.

This year, the only way anyone would deserve special consideration is if that skater had a super Grand Prix season, winning some medals and making the finals. It looks like that is not going to happen (go Ashley!) So I can't see any reason why USFS shouldn't just cross its fingers and go with the winner and runner up at Nationals.

One thing they could do, if they were in doubt, is use Four Continents as a final filter for the second spot at Worlds. (Go Alissa! )

Good post. Talking about the possibilies of the USFS and getting 3 skaters to the Olys.The USFS will need to get 13 points from results at LA. At the same time how will they handle the results at Cleveland, as Mathman pointed out and just go with the top 2 places at Nats.

Of course, if all fails, sending two to the Olys isn't the end of the world.

 

[Andalusia]

Rachael looked to me to be having a case of nerves at SA (didn't she say so in the press conferences herself?). Mirai may be having growth spurt issues or just dealing with that ankle. Caroline said she had tendonitis and twisted ankle before SC, and therefore wasn't ready for the competition stamina-wise. In fact, Caroline skated with really low energy, and looked like she was with physical discomfort or mental preoccupation. She was struggling to muscle out those jumps when she looked like she hardly had the stamina to get through the programs, which may be why she reverted to all her worst jumping habits from the days when she was a lot smaller and weaker and needed all that kicking and twisting to get 3 revolutions in. I mean, if she was skating with tendonitis and twisted ankle (or recent aftereffects), it shows just how much determination she had to get through all the triples without a downgrade.

So anyway, it's too early to say what's going on with any of these young ladies. One should at least wait for a couple of performances from each skater before finding a "trend".

Where did you get the information about Caroline?

I'd say Rachael is likely to do the best out of the new American ladies precisely because she's the least heralded. I'm almost certain she'll get a spot at the Olympics. She's the American most likely to end up on the podium if one of the big two slip up. Someone on another board compared Rachael to Sarah Hughes, and I absolutely agree - she's flying under the radar getting the job done and she's always so steady and calm. Plus, she has clean, smooth jumps and no glaring technical issues. It helps that she's quite adventuresome with those 3-3s, too.

I don't know if she's been hit by the puberty bug already, but IMO she doesn't look like the type who'll suffer too much if and when it does. OTOH, I noticed that Caroline is already the same height as both Michelle Kwan and Joannie Rochette!

 

[smaac]

With the chance of the United States losing a spot at Worlds, I cannot understand why the USFS won't step in and get together and for example take a skater like Alissa Czisny, who has tremendous potential to win it all, and get her the best of the best in coaching (i.e the best fit for her based upon her needs with help in jumps), and get a team together that could win the spots for the upcoming season. They have all of these skaters with the potential, but they seem to just stop short of grooming them to take it all. They latched onto Kimmie and branded her as the next star, without what I feel sufficiently grooming her, and helping her advance to he next level. They have all these little girls who are the up and comers, yet none have the whole package.

The federation needs to invest in these ladies, as well as look at the up and comer at the juv, intermediate and novice levels. And they need to look just not at the ladies who make jr. nationals, but perhaps skaters who are identified as having a talent but are still working on particular elements, but just have that 'it' factor.

 

[feraina]

Where did you get the information about Caroline?

I asked her. She said she hardly got to practice lutzes or flips at all before SC (no wonder these look worse than before). She also said she grew another inch since GW (2.5 months ago!), and her LP dress didn't fit anymore. It was a very pretty, sparkly dress, I'm very sad that she outgrew it before her first competition.

 

[Mathman]

...I cannot understand why the USFS won't step in...

For better or for worse, I think USFS is not really in the business of stepping in. Skaters (that is, their parents) hire their own coaches and plan their careers without much guidance or intervention from the Association.

 

[Andalusia]

I asked her. She said she hardly got to practice lutzes or flips at all before SC (no wonder these look worse than before). She also said she grew another inch since GW (2.5 months ago!), and her LP dress didn't fit anymore. It was a very pretty, sparkly dress, I'm very sad that she outgrew it before her first competition.

You get to talk to her personally...you're so lucky!

Could you perhaps suggest to her, albeit nicely , that she seriously needs to work on her off-kilter technique? I wonder how she'll take that, lol. I really do hope she has a better outing at TEB, and that her "spooky like Halloween" jump technique is not repeated there. She had already been making some progress by the end of last season, so hopefully what we saw at SC was a fluke brought on by her tendonitis and other physical difficulties.

And it looks like she's already grown so much...I hope she doesn't get to be too tall! Her sister certainly does look on the taller side to me.

 

[feraina]

Could you perhaps suggest to her, albeit nicely , that she seriously needs to work on her off-kilter technique? I wonder how she'll take that, lol.

I'm sure she knows. She was not anywhere close to top physical condition, she actually popped the 3Z into a single in the LP. Have you ever seen or heard of her popping a jump in competition? I certainly haven't, it's very uncharacteristic, normally she's so tough and she'd rather take a bad spill than popping a jump. Let's wait until TEB and see where she's at by then. In the least, she and her coach are totally aware that she needs to skate faster and with more power. She's been doing a lot more core training than before, and hopefully that will help her with speed and jumps sooner or later.

When you haven't been practicing 3Z or 3F for a month, it doesn't matter what kind of jump technique you have, you are probably not going to land them in a major competition.

And it looks like she's already grown so much...I hope she doesn't get to be too tall! Her sister certainly does look on the taller side to me.

I know! Her sister remarked once that she enjoyed meeting Carolina Kostner: "finally, an elite skater my height." The only public photo I can find of Caroline and her sister is here:
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1240/zhangsisterdocsrc2.jpg
Caroline was maybe 5'2 at GW, so about 5'3 now, and her sister looks about 5'8(?) -- quite tall, but she's also very thin.

ETA: here's a better photo of Caroline with her sister and coach and mother:
http://sports.sohu.com/20071112/n253184966.shtml
from CoC 2007, and I suspect she was wearing her skates in this photo (as she always does).

 

[fiercemao]

Is there any medicine that can help these girls to stop growing? It's so frustrating that the majority of these talented youngsters' jumps have been destroyed by growth spurt.

 

[feraina]

Is there any medicine that can help these girls to stop growing? It's so frustrating that the majority of these talented youngsters' jumps have been destroyed by growth spurt.

Eh... I hope you're kidding!

Anyway, growth may have an adverse effect on young skaters in the short term, but in the long term it may help them. If Caroline can adjust to her new height, she can probably add power and speed to her skating. That would be wonderful!

 

[vlaurend]

I asked her. She said she hardly got to practice lutzes or flips at all before SC (no wonder these look worse than before). She also said she grew another inch since GW (2.5 months ago!), and her LP dress didn't fit anymore. It was a very pretty, sparkly dress, I'm very sad that she outgrew it before her first competition.

I loved her LP dress at GW! It was a gorgeous raspberry color. I was going to ask her why she switched to the yellow dress but now I don't need to. I wonder if the raspberry dress can be altered. . . And yes, as another person who sees and talks to Caroline and Mirai in person, I also like to respect the fact that these skaters all have very qualified coaches already, not to mention all of the other coaches around them who give unsolicited advice to their coaches all the time! I think the last thing they need at this point is our 2 cents.
BTW, I thought her sister was really tall at first, too, but then I realized she's always wearing heels. Kind of like Caroline is always wearing her skates, LOL!
Here's a picture of the raspberry LP dress. Caroline is not really taller than the other girls here, she's just the only one still in her skates.
http://photos-a.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v331/139/29/1091787579/n1091787579_113800_7717.jpg

 

[flying camel]

Caroline said she had tendonitis and twisted ankle before SC, and therefore wasn't ready for the competition stamina-wise. In fact, Caroline skated with really low energy, and looked like she was with physical discomfort or mental preoccupation. She was struggling to muscle out those jumps when she looked like she hardly had the stamina to get through the programs, which may be why she reverted to all her worst jumping habits from the days when she was a lot smaller and weaker and needed all that kicking and twisting to get 3 revolutions in. I mean, if she was skating with tendonitis and twisted ankle (or recent aftereffects), it shows just how much determination she had to get through all the triples without a downgrade.

Well this is the first I have heard that Caroline had an injury. That's too bad. I wonder why she just didn't pull out.

 

[Spun Silver]

Here's a picture of the raspberry LP dress. Caroline is not really taller than the other girls here, she's just the only one still in her skates.
http://photos-a.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v331/139/29/1091787579/n1091787579_113800_7717.jpg

Amazing. Our little Caroline grew up. And so fast!

 

[ks777]

Amazing. Our little Caroline grew up. And so fast!

I know! Our Mirai is growing up fast too!

by the way which one is Caroline in that pic? hard to tell.
just kidding!

 

[PolymerBob]

Tendonitis, sprained ankle, an inch in 2 months? The more I read, the less surprised I am she did so poorly and the more surprised I am she did so well.

As for Worlds, there really isn't much USFSA can do. All the girls are age eligible. So it's like a "hail Mary" pass in football. Just throw the top 2 girls from Nationals into the competition .............. and pray.

And whatever happens, we are pretty much guaranteed gold at Junior Worlds.

 

[Eddie Lee]

Flatt is a good skater, but honestly, she's slow and boring. I think her posture is worse this season.

At least she's consistent with her jumps, though.

I agree...I think Flatt is a wonderful skater. I believe she has the ability to make the podium at the senior level, interntaionally--at her very best, with others failing. I believe the languid nature of her skating will limit her to the lower podia, however. There's just not enough spark there to get those high PC's, necessary to get the gold with any regularity.

Speaking of PC marks, I have never seen them despensed so freely as in the recent SkateCanada. Reminds me of the second mark in the old 6.0 system. Egregious!

 

[chuckm]

Flatt was slow in her first JGP event last year, and she had problems in her second, but by the JGPF, she had improved immensely, and by JW, there is no way that she could be called slow.

It is NOT important for a skater to peak during the GP. In fact, it's often counter-productive. Just because Flatt is slow in October doesn't mean she will be slow in January and/or March, when the important events take place.

If Nagasu and Zhang are having their problems now, that is a GOOD thing. Better now than later in the season.

Please, folks---cut these skaters a BREAK!

 

[Sylvia]

I think it is very unlikely that USFS will send anyone to Worlds other than whoever finishes first and second at U. S. Nationals.

I agree.

True, they re-wrote the by-laws this year to make it more clear that they can send whoever they want, based on how well skaters did at other competitions.

I think you're referring to the 2010 U.S. Olympic figure skating team selection guidelines, which were revised this past summer? According to the current rules, the 2009 U.S. national champions in the 4 disciplines are still guaranteed a berth on the 2009 World team.

 

[mskater93]

The National Champions are always guaranteed a berth to Worlds/Olympics, it's the other slots that are discretionary

 

[Sylvia]

The National Champions are always guaranteed a berth to Worlds/Olympics, it's the other slots that are discretionary

The 2010 U.S. Olympic figure skating team selection guidelines were revised earlier this summer (I believe this is what Mathman was referring to) and the 2010 U.S. national champions are no longer guaranteed an Olympic team berth, even though it's more than likely the 4 champions will be named to the team (as long as they are age-eligible).

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

^^^

The 4 gold medalists at US Nats will have earned a spot on the Olys, but if there are additional skaters selected for the Olys, it will be by the USFS selection committee, and not necessarily by silver and bronze results at the US Nats. Correct?