2025 World Championships Women's Short Program

[FlossieH]

I see there have been a lot of comments about the women's short program. After seeing the results of this first segment, I really did not have a good feeling about judging in the rest of the disciplines. And I was right, especially about pairs. Oh boy! It looks like Japan and Italy federations are working overtime politically to set up their favored skaters for the Milan Olympics. There's a lot going on here, and most of it involves politics and favoritism.

I don't think the Italians were given any favourable treatment in pairs. I'm not keen on Conti/Macii, but they earnt that bronze on merit based on how they skated in the two programmes. They were helped by some of the other pairs underperforming. Gilardi/Ambrosini were slaughtered by the judges, and rightly so, because both their skates were poor - their reputation for good performance skills did not save them. However, I am still a bit mystified at how the Japanese stayed ahead of Hase/Volodin.

The ladies free is where the judging seems to have been more problematic. I am genuinely perplexed at some of the marks.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I don't necessarily buy into full blown conspiracy, but I do think the major Feds have influence with which of their skaters get a more favorable view.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'full-blown conspiracy.' There is definitely political maneuvering that goes on bts always. There is federation politics that occurs both domestically and internationally. Politicking has always existed in figure skating. Ever heard of 'European bloc-judging'? Ever heard about the Russian toe-tapping cheating judges?

Of course federations have influence over who among the skaters they send to Worlds are heavily supported. That is clearly on display with Kaori being well-placed with a less than stellar performance; Chiba being over-rewarded with a juniorish performance; and Wakaba being low-balled in 4th place with an absolutely brilliant sp.

We have only to look at the pairs results to notice how the overly favored Miura/Kihara got an inflated high score in the sp and then with a messy fp were able to edge a brilliant fp performance by Hase/Volodin. Meanwhile, H/V were the only top pair team to skate two clean performances. In the sp, H/V were unfairly edged out of second by boring, subpar Conti/Macii. That's Italy fed politics and Japan fed politics at work, setting up their skaters for Milan Olympics.

Even in the men's sp, Shun Sato was overly scored, especially on PCS! Daniel Grassl should have been behind Roman Sadovsky, instead of percentage points ahead. Vlad Livintsev was brilliant technically and should have placed ahead of Jason Brown, instead of behind. As much as I love Jason, he should probably have received around 82+ rather than 84+. Deniss Vasiljevs was so low-balled on PCS at only 41+. That's preposterous! Meanwhile, Shun Sato was given 42+ on PCS!!! Jason received 44+ which means Deniss should have been no lower than 43! This sport sucks so much. It's disappointing and disillusioning.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I seem to be a misfit as a figure skating fan. I do not see any evidence of Italian and Japanese politics and favoritism. The Japanese and Italian skaters have skated well. I do not see anything "going on."

Did skater X deserve a point higher and skater Y a point lower in the opinion of fan Z? OK. What I saw was a few skaters skated well and are bunched at the top, a few made mistakes and ended up farther back than they hoped for. Someone will win the free skate and the title of World Champion. That's OK, too.

Look, to each their own views and skater preferences. I am not talking about any skaters personally. I am talking about their performances, capabilities, and the clearly inconsistent and faulty judging that is politically influenced and obviously massaged and manipulated via PCS scoring for placements. Hase/Volodin were clearly the best team in pairs, but were edged out in 3rd for sp and second overall after the fp. Unfairly.

For sure, there is U.S. politicking afoot as well, but the U.S. is not that good at politics and tend to rely more on their skaters earning their way on merit. Albeit that Alysa did not deserve to be in first in the women's sp. I also think Levito is overrated.

Obviously, anything can happen in figure skating. A lot does depend on the performances, but the judging is simply consistently not good and usually unfair. Politics is rampant in figure skating, and it always has been, which has absolutely nothing to do with so-called 'conspiracies.'

 

[Joekaz]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'full-blown conspiracy.' There is definitely political maneuvering that goes on bts always. There is federation politics that occurs both domestically and internationally. Politicking has always existed in figure skating. Ever heard of 'European bloc-judging'? Ever heard about the Russian toe-tapping cheating judges?

Of course federations have influence over who among the skaters they send to Worlds are heavily supported. That is clearly on display with Kaori being well-placed with a less than stellar performance; Chiba being over-rewarded with a juniorish performance; and Wakaba being low-balled in 4th place with an absolutely brilliant sp.

We have only to look at the pairs results to notice how the overly favored Miura/Kihara got an inflated high score in the sp and then with a messy fp were able to edge a brilliant fp performance by Hase/Volodin. Meanwhile, H/V were the only top pair team to skate two clean performances. In the sp, H/V were unfairly edged out of second by boring, subpar Conti/Macii. That's Italy fed politics and Japan fed politics at work, setting up their skaters for Milan Olympics.

Even in the men's sp, Shun Sato was overly scored, especially on PCS! Daniel Grassl should have been behind Roman Sadovsky, instead of percentage points ahead. Vlad Livintsev was brilliant technically and should have placed ahead of Jason Brown, instead of behind. As much as I love Jason, he should probably have received around 82+ rather than 84+. Deniss Vasiljevs was so low-balled on PCS at only 41+. That's preposterous! Meanwhile, Shun Sato was given 42+ on PCS!!! Jason received 44+ which means Deniss should have been no lower than 43! This sport sucks so much. It's disappointing and disillusioning.

I can't prove anything, but I can't disagree either. Especially when it gets to where you can kind of predict things by looking at the politics. Remember the last time Kaori didnt get point inflation and win at World's,she finished behind Karen Chen in the pre Olympic year. Lol And as you say, if you watch Japanese media coverage this season, its clear they are pushing Mone over Wakaba.

 

[Mathman]

Daniel Grassl should have been behind Roman Sadovsky, instead of percentage points ahead... This sport sucks so much.

One fan says Grassl should have been ahead od Sadovsky. Another says that Sadovsky should be ahead of Crassl. One commentator points out something good about Grassl's performance. Another points out something good about Sadovsky's. The judges give X nimber of points to Grassl and Y number of points to Sadovsjy.

To me, this does not support the conclusion that figure skating sucks.

For me, I really, really enjoyed Isabeau Levito's SP performance, The judges liked it pretty well, too, but not as much as I did. OK.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I don't think the Italians were given any favourable treatment in pairs. I'm not keen on Conti/Macii, but they earnt that bronze on merit based on how they skated in the two programmes.

You see something I did not see. Conti/Macii are very slow, lack transitions and their programs are not that interesting. They should not have placed ahead of Hase/ Volodin in the sp. That they did is pure politics.

C/M have worked hard to improve in some areas, but they are still slow, despite having good skating skills. H/V were brilliant, but it's quite clear that M/K and C/M were being favored in prep for Milan. Okay, enough here from me about pairs.

 

[Joekaz]

Look, to each their own views and skater preferences. I am not talking about any skaters personally. I am talking about their performances, capabilities, and the clearly inconsistent and faulty judging that is politically influenced and obviously massaged and manipulated via PCS scoring for placements. Hase/Volodin were clearly the best team in pairs, but were edged out in 3rd for sp and second overall after the fp. Unfairly.

For sure, there is U.S. politicking afoot as well, but the U.S. is not that good at politics and tend to rely more on their skaters earning their way on merit. Albeit that Alysa did not deserve to be in first in the women's sp. I also think Levito is overrated.

Obviously, anything can happen in figure skating. A lot does depend on the performances, but the judging is simply consistently not good and usually unfair. Politics is rampant in figure skating, and it always has been, which has absolutely nothing to do with so-called 'conspiracies.'

I think the biggest advantage the Americans get is the ISU greatly values increasing popularity in America for obvious financial reasons. And in the US, traditionally the most popular event in the Winter Olympics is the Women's Figure Skating Championship.

 

[Joekaz]

One fan says Grassl should have been ahead od Sadovsky. Another says that Sadovsky should be ahead of Crassl. One commentator points out something good about Grassl's performance. Another points out something good about Sadovsky's. The judges give X nimber of points to Grassl and Y number of points to Sadovsjy.

To me, this does not support the conclusion that figure skating sucks.

For me, I really, really enjoyed Isabeau Levito's SP performance, The judges liked but pretty well, too, but not as much as I did. OK.

I think that this blog is good for an opinion based sport like figure skating to have. Its good to know if other people share your opinions on particular skaters. The bad part is when it is obvious the opinions are purely based on national pride.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

One fan says Grassl should have been ahead od Sadovsky. Another says that Sadovsky should be ahead of Crassl. One commentator points out something good about Grassl's performance. Another points out something good about Sadovsky's. The judges give X nimber of points to Grassl and Y number of points to Sadovsjy.

To me, this does not support the conclusion that figure skating sucks.

For me, I really, really enjoyed Isabeau Levito's SP performance, The judges liked but pretty well, too, but not as much as I did. OK.

I like Levito's sp, and I admire her grit for skating well in big moments. Her form and jump technique are not great. But well, she did receive an ! (Attention) from the judges on her lutz takeoff. It's nice that you try to stay neutral and sympatico. But honestly, this sport has lots of issues that go unexamined. I am sure there are some current fans and some former fans who have similar disappointed and disillusioned feelings about figure skating.

There are a number of issues that need addressing, but the sport is largely run by an organization that was created specifically for speedskaters. Figure skating has always been a revenue generator and at the same time a looked down upon stepchild of the ISU.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I think the biggest advantage the Americans get is the ISU greatly values increasing popularity in America for obvious financial reasons. And in the US, traditionally the most popular event in the Winter Olympics is the Women's Figure Skating Championship.

Actually, the U.S. had more sway and leverage that they still didn't know how to use during the era of big U.S. network television contracts. These days the biggest revenue leveraging federation is Japan. And Italy, due in large part to $peedy Cinquanta's long ISU reign, has deep political influence in the sport.

Again, the U.S. has some influence, too, but conversely, the U.S. has never been very good at politics. U.S. fed relies more on the star factor of their top skaters whose talent they may or may not have nurtured. In some cases, U.S. skaters' talent blossoms despite not being particularly favored by U.S. fed. The fed just comes around after some skaters excel on their own.

I do not see figure skating regaining huge popularity in the U.S. If that's happening, it's proceeding quite slowly and largely unnoticeably. Ilia Malinin's success (and to an extent, Amber Glenn's recent success) is bringing some renewed attention, of course, but I am not sure that will be translating into anything lasting or substantial.

 

[Joekaz]

I like Levito's sp, and I admire her grit for skating well in big moments. Her form and jump technique are not great. But well, she did receive an ! (Attention) from the judges on her lutz takeoff. It's nice that you try to stay neutral and sympatico. But honestly, this sport has lots of issues that go unexamined. I am sure there are some current fans and some former fans who have similar disappointed and disillusioned feelings about figure skating.

There are a number of issues that need addressing, but the sport is largely run by an organization that was created specifically for speedskaters. Figure skating has always been a revenue generator and at the same time a looked down upon stepchild for the ISU.

Plus when they actually did get caught cheating, instead of removing all the leadership and cleaning house, they just changed the scoring system and hid their arbitrary decisions behind a jumble of numbers that are solely opinion based. Changing the system doesn't make a crook honest. Lol

 

[Joekaz]

Actually, the U.S. had more sway and leverage that they still didn't know how to use during the era of big U.S. network television contracts. These days the biggest revenue leveraging federation is Japan. And Italy, due in large part to $peedy Cinquanta's long ISU reign, has deep political influence in the sport.

Again, the U.S. has some influence, too, but conversely, the U.S. has never been very good at politics. U.S. fed relies more on the star factor of their top skaters whose talent they may or may not have nurtured. In some cases, U.S. skaters' talent blossoms despite not being particularly favored by U.S. fed. The fed just comes around after some skaters excel on their own.

Actually skating in Japan has been over saturated and attendance is declining. I would say that Japan has more internal influence as to which skater gets preference, but that once the US decides who they are backing they have more sway with the ISU than Japan does. Usually its Russia, US, Japan in that order. Of course Russia is too busy to partake right now. Lol

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Actually skating in Japan has been over saturated and attendance is declining. I would say that Japan has more internal influence as to which skater gets preference, but that once the US decides who they are backing they have more sway with the ISU than Japan does. Usually its Russia, US, Japan in that order. Of course Russia is too busy to partake right now. Lol

Yeah, true. I still would not underestimate Japan's influence, though. Their singles skaters have a dominating presence in the sport. And their beloved and coddled pairs team are being positioned to take the gold medal at Milan Olympics.

Plus, Rusfed has long tentacles and are still working quietly and urgently bts. Make no mistake about that!

 

[Joekaz]

Yeah, true. I still would not underestimate Japan's influence, though. Their singles skaters have a dominating presence in the sport. And their beloved and coddled pairs team are being positioned to take the gold medal at Milan Olympics.

Plus, Rusfed has long tentacles and are still working quietly and urgently bts. Make no mistake about that!

One good thing is that the competition is close enough tonight that influence probably won't be able to overcome a fall if others are clean.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

However, I am still a bit mystified at how the Japanese stayed ahead of Hase/Volodin.

LOL! I am still unhappy and unmystified about how and why Miura/Kihara were held up and given silver at 2022 Worlds over a better fp performance by James/Radford. Even Safina/ Berulava in 4th place at that event skated better than M/K in both sp and fp! So there is a precedent for M/K being overly favored.

 

[shyne]

I truly hope that before I die, I can witness the replacement of human judging with AI in figure skating and that all skaters will be treated fairly.

 

[Ziotic]

I truly hope that before I die, I can witness the replacement of human judging with AI in figure skating and that all skaters will be treated fairly.

Unfortunately even AI is biased. It makes decisions based on information it’s given.

Sure it can mathematically tell when a jump leaves the ice and when it lands or how many rotations a spin is, but it can’t assess the quality of a crossover objectively

 

[TT_Fin]

Wrong thread

 

[anonymoose_au]

Pops in briefly to say: Gooooo Kaori!