But is it too much difference? I think so. I see Kim's GOE's maximized where possible and Mao's minimized where possible. Of course it's totally within the rules... but.............
Ladies' SP
- Thread starter MikiAndoFan#1
- Start date
But is it too much difference? I think so. I see Kim's GOE's maximized where possible and Mao's minimized where possible. Of course it's totally within the rules... but.............
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Well, she was 15 on June 10th, so conceivably a skater could come along whose birthday falls between June 11 and June 30.
Playoff rules: You get 120 degrees instead of only 90, before they downgrade you. :yes:
I don't want to be too critical about any skater at the Olympics, it's an honour for any skater to make the olympics. But i do not see much quality in Kostner's skating at all. I havn't seen a good skate from her since at about 2004 Worlds. Why she is still considered one of top skaters in the world is beyond me.
First of all, I am always somewhat flabbergasted by the fact that Mao's double after her 3A is ratified this often. It's barely 1 1/2 rotations, let alone two. I think she gets a free pass for the second jump but gets dinged a bit in the GOEs instead. Moreover, she telegraphs for a full 5-6 seconds before going into her 3A - no choreo or arm-movement...just standing as she goes across the ice.
I can't speak for Mao's 3F, though - I thought it was nailed here. Perhaps speed and musical timing? Yuna's flip comes at this exciting flourish in the midst of her music, it's excellent timing musically, while Mao's choreography doesn't always sync so well with her music.
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2005
Not even the playoffs. Until they fix the scoring system so that skaters don't take a massive, crippling deduction for a jump downgrade (just look at Miki), they shouldn't downgrade anything that's less than 180 short.
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2005
In my opinion, the higher GOE's for Joannie tonight especially came from what is going on in her personal life... she even had the highest GOE's for her Spiral Sequence and she doesn't even come close to the extension, turn-out, or flow of some other ladies. She is a fantastic skater, a bit overmarked tonight, but deserves a standing o for just getting out there after the death of her mom.
As for Mao's low GOE on jumps, you can blame that a bit on her jump history with her trouble on edge calls, etc. Yu-Na's 3Lz+3T is a fantastic combo that already sets her up in the mind of the judges to "see" a better jump. If you truly "believe" someone is better at a certain type of element (jumps, spins, steps), it's hard to see it otherwise. Yu-Na has proved herself a fantastic jumper time after time after time, while Mao has had some trouble recently, and although it shouldn't, history does reflect in the GOE scores in the same way that competitive history reflects in the PCS scores.
I agree that had Mirai skated later, her PCS scores probably would have been higher (not by much... I would say maybe a 1.5 points or 2 tops). Mirai skated before we saw one after another after another European lady mess up on her jumps... Mirai also had trouble with her first jump, which probably gave the judges "justification" for giving her a lower PCS score. She also has had a poor season in the GP, and a skater's competitive history is definitely reflected in PCS scores.
Agreed. Also if they had marked Rachael's 3F+3T combination as underrotated, the judges would have had hell to pay for not marking Yu-Na's as underrotated as well. Both of them touched down in that gray area where a strict tech panel might ding it as a UR, but it could be marked as clean as well without too much fuss. Letting them both slide definitely takes away any potential controversy that could have come up if Yu-Na's was given full credit and Rachael's wasn't... you know people would have been comparing their combinations right, left, up, down, forwards, backwards and sideways had they not either been moth marked as clean or both marked as UR-ed.
Minimized?? I don't think so. Her PCS increased a lot compared to her previous international competition whereas Yuna's stayed almost the same. GOEs were fair too in my book. People say her 3A combo should get more GOE but given her trejectory and transition to her second jump (which is double, not triple), I think 0.6 is fair. Yuna's comb has more speed, ice coverage, almost equal hights on both jumps, and it's worth more points.
ita.
About Ando vs. Rochette... it really looked on the replay that Ando's 3Flip was underrotated in addition to the combo (even worse, in fact). She was not called on it though. While I do think all of the top 3 scores are a bit unreasably high (due to the way this system works to create such leads for clear frontrunners)... there is still rightly a significant gap between 3rd and 4th here. I won't get into first and 2nd. I do think Yu-Na was clearly superior, though with a touch of caution in her expression, compared to her usual standard.
I am a Korean who lives in America and can speak fairly fluent Japanese, and it is very amusing to see TOTALLY different reactions to the scores from Korean and Japanese Internet boards. Basically, they are:
Korea - *** Mao was overscored! She is super slow and that program is totally empty, no choreography at all. Of course she has to be able to "interpret" the program, because she's been skating it two years in a row as a total recycle. 3A? Ha, that jump isn't worth as much as Yuna's 3-3, so of course she can't expect to beat Yuna with just that jump. The point difference should have been bigger than merely 5 points. All Mao did today was skate clean, nothing more than that.
Japan - *** *** *** *** *** (they are clearly more mad...) Granted that Yuna did well, but there shouldn't be 5 point difference between the two! Mao has 3A! That jump is difficult! Skaters should get credit for doing difficult elements!
Well, more than a few Japanese have more outrageous opinions that include Yuna buying off the entire judging panel with her sponsorship money, but I don't want to go there. I actually think both are correct, which is the most amusing part. (Now if only they will listen to each other... but of course this is Olympics and we are talking about Korea and Japan here.) Hearing opinions from both sides after actually watching the programs convinced me that judging, at least for these two skaters, was pretty fair! They are both mad, so something must have been done correctly.
Thanks for the post. This is very telling. The debate after the final will dwarf, who should have won debate between US (Lyscek) v. Russia (Plushy). No matter what happens in final, they will go back to SP.
As for me, I want them to both skate clean.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2006
Another good night of skating!! (well, with a few falls..Cynthia's random one was especially disappointing)
I hope Joannie hangs on for the bronze, or even silver. I think gold is unattainable for her, unless Yuna has a major meltdown. Miki could challenge though. I don't think the American girls can move up THAT much. Kostner is no longer a contender either, IMO. It's disappointing how much worse she's got over the last couple of years - not that she was bad before, but her progress has been downward. Leonova was interesting to watch and seems to have such joy when skating. Rachael too!
I hope Joannie hangs on for the bronze, or even silver. I think gold is unattainable for her, unless Yuna has a major meltdown. Miki could challenge though. I don't think the American girls can move up THAT much. Kostner is no longer a contender either, IMO. It's disappointing how much worse she's got over the last couple of years - not that she was bad before, but her progress has been downward. Leonova was interesting to watch and seems to have such joy when skating. Rachael too!
See you tomorrow or at least Thursday. Good night.- Joined
- Dec 12, 2005
My idea stands that that to improve difficulty in skating and making risks worth while, for difficult jumps or combinations (quads and 3A+3T/Lo combinations for men; 3F/3Lz+3T/3Lo, solo 3A's, and 3A's in any combination for ladies), skaters should be given one of two choices.
1. Do the jump under normal CoP rules and gain the opportunity to earn positive GOE's (secure jumps for a skater)
OR
2. Have a multiplier added to the jump in case of UR, BUT if the jump winds up being completed perfectly, you forfeit the chance for any +GOEs (less secure jumps for the skater)
Also, the choice must be stated to the tech panel and judges before the program starts... here is a link to a thread with the idea in more detail and with examples: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?31182-A-way-to-make-it-worthwhile-to-try-the-quad
Minimized meaning they gave her the minimal mark they could....... This is referring to GOEs not PCS scores.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2004
ITA. i thought mao and yuna should have been closer ... joannie and miki closer :think: just my opinion
I think I explained about GOEs too. All the top ladies got similar GOEs so unless you want to see 3s all over Mao's protocol it's fair.
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2009
Agreed. Too many cross overs leading to the jumps too.
I thought flutz is when a wrong take off edge is used, outside instead of inside. I am not a skater so someone could correct me. I don't understand what "too much time" has to do with it, unless this affects the take off edge. May be someone can clarify Mao's jump or what flutz is exactly
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2005
Under the system right now, I think the PCS scores for Mao and Yu-Na were fair. As far as Mao's 3A+2T combination goes... the most realistic way of making it "fair" is for the ISU to understand that the 3A is a much more difficult, and much less tried, jump for ladies than it is for men, and by that reasoning, give the 3A a higher base value for ladies than men. The amount of female skaters that have attempted 3F/3Lz+3T/3Lo (ie. a 3+3 combination with the flip or lutz as the first jump) is much higher than those that have attempted the 3A or 3A in combination. It makes logical sense to boost the value of the 3A in ladies skating, because it does contain a higher degree of difficulty for ladies than men... unless you are Lambiel (hehe), you can't be a top male skater without a 3A. The base score of the 3A in ladies and mens skating should reflect that fact.
Similar threads
