Ladies' SP

[ehdtkqorl123]

I have a few problems with Yu Na's program:
She waits way too long after footwork to do her flip.
Her layback leg position is atrocious.
She under-rotated her second triple on the 3-3.

Not a huge deal, but if she's going to get such an insane score, everything should be perfect.

Ok, I'm done with my nitpicking for the night.

Great job, Ladies!!! Especially proud of our Americans!

And more problems..
Her 3-3 jumps are too fast.
Her ice coverage is too huge.
Her speed before 3-3 is too fast so it makes audience nervous.
She smiles a lot during the program - figure skating is not about facial expression!

and so on.. blah..

 

[edge31]

Yes there is lol Look at the components and GOEs. That is waht protocol is for.

I think I explained about GOEs too. All the top ladies got similar GOEs so unless you want to see 3s all over Mao's protocol it's fair.

Obviously they didn't all get similar GOE's because the point spread is pretty large for similar skaters. I agree that Yu Na should be in first but again the disparity is a little large in my opinion.
Your explanation is your explanation. My question obviously centers around opinion as the GOE's are just that. I believe that they should be within 3 point of each other, not 5. And this does not mean that Mao should get all 3's either.

 

[aftertherain]

And more problems..
Her 3-3 jumps are too fast.
Her ice coverage is too huge.
Her speed before 3-3 is too fast so it makes audience nervous.
She smiles a lot during the program - figure skating is not about facial expression!

and so on.. blah..

She's just stating her opinion. You could have just said that you disagree.

 

[bethissoawesome]

I thought flutz is when a wrong take off edge is used, outside instead of inside. I am not a skater so someone could correct me. I don't understand what "too much time" has to do with it, unless this affects the take off edge. May be someone can clarify Mao's jump or what flutz is exactly

A flutz is a lutz that takes off of the wrong edge. The F in flutz comes from it resembling the flip (since everything about the take-off is the same except for the edge). So a lutz that doesn't have a clear outside edge is called a "flutz" and flip without a clear inside edge is called a "lip". As far as Mao is concerned though, the problem was always the edge of her lutz (which she did often flutz, but has worked on correcting)... the edge on her flip jump has never been a problem.

 

[ehdtkqorl123]

Under the system right now, I think the PCS scores for Mao and Yu-Na were fair. As far as Mao's 3A+2T combination goes... the most realistic way of making it "fair" is for the ISU to understand that the 3A is a much more difficult, and much less tried, jump for ladies than it is for men, and by that reasoning, give the 3A a higher base value for ladies than men. The amount of female skaters that have attempted 3F/3Lz+3T/3Lo (ie. a 3+3 combination with the flip or lutz as the first jump) is much higher than those that have attempted the 3A or 3A in combination. It makes logical sense to boost the value of the 3A in ladies skating, because it does contain a higher degree of difficulty for ladies than men... unless you are Lambiel (hehe), you can't be a top male skater without a 3A. The base score of the 3A in ladies and mens skating should reflect that fact.

If I compare Yu-Na and Mao to men, I'd say

Yu-Na : Mao =
3-3 and no 3A : technically difficult 3A =
Evan : Plushy

only in context of the type of attempted jump (not quality or any other elements)
If you don't agree, simply ignore this post

 

[enlight78]

Could you imagine if sasha cohen had yu-na jumps; that would be a monster;

 

[taaak]

I think elene g, was very underscoed, she should be ahead kostner, rachael, leonova and even miki ando. her steps were fabolous and jumps were good too.

good luck in fs!

 

[CassieH]

I thought flutz is when a wrong take off edge is used, outside instead of inside. I am not a skater so someone could correct me. I don't understand what "too much time" has to do with it, unless this affects the take off edge. May be someone can clarify Mao's jump or what flutz is exactly

Mao just goes across the ice for 5-6 sec before she jumps. no choreo, do nothing.

 

[treshot]

Could you imagine if sasha cohen had yu-na jumps; that would be a monster;

Oh, that would've been just unfair! I don't think huge jumps and flexibility usually go together - for whatever reason, skaters with great positions and lines just don't seem to be able to put together top-notch jumps, and vice versa. That's why I thought Mao was so special... I still think Mao circa 2007-2008 season was the most complete skater that I've ever seen, in terms of total package. There wasn't one thing that you could point as something she doesn't do well - her only problem was the mental part. I sometimes daydream about "what if Yuna had Mao's flexibility" and "what if Mao had Yuna's calmness"

 

[bethissoawesome]

If I compare Yu-Na and Mao to men, I'd say

Yu-Na : Mao =
3-3 and no 3A : technically difficult 3A =
Evan : Plushy

only in context of the type of attempted jump (not quality or any other elements)
If you don't agree, simply ignore this post

I would agree too (yes, only in context of type of jumps attempted). Also, the 3A is a jump that is important to Mao, like the quad is important to Plushenko (although Mao doesn't push that "everyone should be doing it"); but from all of Mao's interviews, she makes it clear that she needs to have the 3A mastered and in her program to truly feel like she is skating to the best of her ability. She can do 3-3 combos... she's done the 3F+3T, 3F+3Lo, 3Lo+3Lo, and only Mao knows what else she has done in practice... but for her, the 3A is a must.

It will be interesting to see how people react in the LP if both skate clean... Yu-Na has a great opening combo (just like Evan hehe), but she also three 2A's in her program while Mao has two 3A's. I really hope both have a clean LP, because the outcome will say a lot about the current judging system.. a much better example than Evan vs. Plushy, since Mao and Yu-Na are both the same age, have been skating under CoP for the same amount of time, have similar PCS scores, and both have programs designed to cater to CoP.

 

[stickle]

I am a Korean who lives in America and can speak fairly fluent Japanese, and it is very amusing to see TOTALLY different reactions to the scores from Korean and Japanese Internet boards. Basically, they are:

Korea - *** Mao was overscored! She is super slow and that program is totally empty, no choreography at all. Of course she has to be able to "interpret" the program, because she's been skating it two years in a row as a total recycle. 3A? Ha, that jump isn't worth as much as Yuna's 3-3, so of course she can't expect to beat Yuna with just that jump. The point difference should have been bigger than merely 5 points. All Mao did today was skate clean, nothing more than that.

Japan - *** *** *** *** *** (they are clearly more mad...) Granted that Yuna did well, but there shouldn't be 5 point difference between the two! Mao has 3A! That jump is difficult! Skaters should get credit for doing difficult elements!

Well, more than a few Japanese have more outrageous opinions that include Yuna buying off the entire judging panel with her sponsorship money, but I don't want to go there. I actually think both are correct, which is the most amusing part. (Now if only they will listen to each other... but of course this is Olympics and we are talking about Korea and Japan here.) Hearing opinions from both sides after actually watching the programs convinced me that judging, at least for these two skaters, was pretty fair! They are both mad, so something must have been done correctly.

Hah! Thanks for posting your observations. It's very interesting to hear what the coverage is in various parts of the world. Nationalistic fervor can be fierce, can't it? :

 

[adoreyuna]

Could you imagine if sasha cohen had yu-na jumps; that would be a monster;

LoL ! I will bet it is more frightening that if Alissa had Yu-na's insane jumps.

 

[Juli®]

Yu-Na was fantastic. She's only 19 age, but no pressure for her. She skating with confidence. Mao... those 3A are killing her pcs. She's not have transitions anymore!

 

[yangjie]

Ok.

maybe if the scores and the places were like this, everybody would agree with me

1st yu-na 77
2nd mao 74
3rd rochette 71
4th miki 66

 

[prettykeys]

I am still rocked by the enormous emotional weight of Joannie's SP. The aura and expression of her skating tonight was far better than what I've seen from her before.

 

[nghtvsn]

Mao just goes across the ice for 5-6 sec before she jumps. no choreo, do nothing.

She had footwork steps going into the flip and spread eagle into the double axle. Nothing into the 3a.

 

[SerpentineSteps]

I am a Korean who lives in America and can speak fairly fluent Japanese, and it is very amusing to see TOTALLY different reactions to the scores from Korean and Japanese Internet boards. Basically, they are:

Korea - *** Mao was overscored! She is super slow and that program is totally empty, no choreography at all. Of course she has to be able to "interpret" the program, because she's been skating it two years in a row as a total recycle. 3A? Ha, that jump isn't worth as much as Yuna's 3-3, so of course she can't expect to beat Yuna with just that jump. The point difference should have been bigger than merely 5 points. All Mao did today was skate clean, nothing more than that.

Japan - *** *** *** *** *** (they are clearly more mad...) Granted that Yuna did well, but there shouldn't be 5 point difference between the two! Mao has 3A! That jump is difficult! Skaters should get credit for doing difficult elements!

Well, more than a few Japanese have more outrageous opinions that include Yuna buying off the entire judging panel with her sponsorship money, but I don't want to go there. I actually think both are correct, which is the most amusing part. (Now if only they will listen to each other... but of course this is Olympics and we are talking about Korea and Japan here.) Hearing opinions from both sides after actually watching the programs convinced me that judging, at least for these two skaters, was pretty fair! They are both mad, so something must have been done correctly.

I mean, obviously you're going to be biased if you're Korean-American. That, in combination with your admittedly fairly fluent Japanese, makes your observation of the emotional undertones to these message boards less than reliable. I guess we'll just have to find a Korean-speaking Japanese-American on the board!

 

[SerpentineSteps]

Could you imagine if sasha cohen had yu-na jumps; that would be a monster;

I feel like sasha cohen with arnold schwarzenegger's guns and anthony hopkins' face would be more monstrous.

 

[bethissoawesome]

Oh, that would've been just unfair! I don't think huge jumps and flexibility usually go together - for whatever reason, skaters with great positions and lines just don't seem to be able to put together top-notch jumps, and vice versa. That's why I thought Mao was so special... I still think Mao circa 2007-2008 season was the most complete skater that I've ever seen, in terms of total package. There wasn't one thing that you could point as something she doesn't do well - her only problem was the mental part.

ITA I'm very flexible, and when learning my jumps... for me, flexibility was a bit of a problem because it was so easy to hammer toe jumps like the lutz and flip without even realizing it and then winding up with a wonky, inconsistent air position. I never "felt" like I was lifting my leg up very far, because lifting it to that extension required no extra effort; I'd only realize what I had done once I saw it replayed. It took quite a while to correct. (not that it matters now... stupid meningitis )

Mao was amazing that season... I think her mental lapse was the fact that she thought she was going to lose her 3A, the single most important thing in figure skating to her. I hope she continues to skate after this season, because now that she knows she has it back and doesn't need to prove it to herself and the world again, there will be more versatility from her, and she could return to being that skater she was in the '07-'08 season.

 

[miki88]

Under the system right now, I think the PCS scores for Mao and Yu-Na were fair. As far as Mao's 3A+2T combination goes... the most realistic way of making it "fair" is for the ISU to understand that the 3A is a much more difficult, and much less tried, jump for ladies than it is for men, and by that reasoning, give the 3A a higher base value for ladies than men. The amount of female skaters that have attempted 3F/3Lz+3T/3Lo (ie. a 3+3 combination with the flip or lutz as the first jump) is much higher than those that have attempted the 3A or 3A in combination. It makes logical sense to boost the value of the 3A in ladies skating, because it does contain a higher degree of difficulty for ladies than men... unless you are Lambiel (hehe), you can't be a top male skater without a 3A. The base score of the 3A in ladies and mens skating should reflect that fact.

I agree with you. I think I finally understood why Mao is choosing to do her 3A-2T even if the base value is less than a 3-3. Because if she gets a UR on the 3-3 like Miki did then she will be so behind. Of course the 3A is risky as well but I think Mao is more comfortable with that jump than her 3-3.