Could Lysacek repeat as Olympic Champion? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Could Lysacek repeat as Olympic Champion?

So you were disssapointed in the quality of competition in Vancouver? Fine. But it has only gotten alot worse since then. :laugh: Chan can fall 5 times and win every event now, he made less mistakes in Vancouver than he is making on the GP so far and only came 5th. Some improvement we see now.
 
pangtongfan said:
So you were disssapointed in the quality of competition in Vancouver? Fine. But it has only gotten alot worse since then. :laugh: Chan can fall 5 times and win every event now, he made less mistakes in Vancouver than he is making on the GP so far and only came 5th. Some improvement we see now.
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Debate or no debate, that is the question
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous falsehoods,
Or to take arms against a sea of distortions
And, by opposing, end them.
 
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Chan at his first GP event had 4 falls and won easily. In Russia he in reality had 6 or 7 falls worth of mistakes. His quad was downgraded and he had a combo completely discounted. Showing he would have won there with 5 falls, possibly 6, if no other mistakes. So nothing I said is false. That is the standard now, Chan can win every event with atleast 5 falls. If that is the standard Evan doesnt have much to worry about should he return. And the skating in Vancouver was bad when Evan won what would one call the skating now which is 3 times worse than in Vancouver.
 
ImaginaryPogue said:
gmyers, a lot is said here, so I'm gonna try to parse it a little.

a) The reason quads didn't matter wasn't because of COP. It was because the quad skaters were either too injured (Takakashi, Lambiel) or prone to making mistakes (Joubert, Takahashi, Verner) or ignored virtually everything else about skating (Plushenko).

b) The ISU really didn't like the fact that the champion didn't have a quad. So they made the quads worth more, some other triples a little less and penalized the mistaken quads a little less as well.

c) Question: Do they backtrack now? I don't think they do. Two skaters (Brezina and Reynolds) have talked about doing TWO quads in the short program, and Reynolds' has clearly attemtped to do that. Skaters that didn't have the quad and maybe still don't are working their collective tale to get it. Mroz is now a Nationals contender because he has the quad. We'll see at the GPF. The top four men could land quads.
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When I was writing what I wrote before I was thinking of how things can change over the course of 4 years. I mean now there is a quad boom but I don't really think any season matters until the 2013-2014 one. Maybe from worlds 2013 to Olympics 2014 is what matters. You are right that the people who kept the quad think going from 2006 up until worlds 2008 had massive problems and maybe that wont happen in the years from 2010 to 2014. You mentioned Takahashi and Lambiel and Verner all screwed up royally at worlds 2008. And Joubert with his mistakes. Lambiel didn't even had his head in the game that season. So obviously that was a pivotal season and changed the whole of mens skating before the 2010 Olympics. Basically I think my thinking was quads now don't matter. Maybe the system has changed to make them matter more from 2010 to 2014 and they can't nearly vanish from the world champions programs like they did from 2006 to 2010.
 
The winner at the 2014 Games unless Evan returns in strong form is Patrick Chan so whether a guy wins in 2014 without a quad or not is dependent on what Patrick Chan is doing one at the 2014 Games or not. Most likely he will fall on his quad and a bunch of other jumps and still win, unless Evan is there and back at his best.
 
gmyers said:
When I was writing what I wrote before I was thinking of how things can change over the course of 4 years. I mean now there is a quad boom but I don't really think any season matters until the 2013-2014 one. Maybe from worlds 2013 to Olympics 2014 is what matters. You are right that the people who kept the quad think going from 2006 up until worlds 2008 had massive problems and maybe that wont happen in the years from 2010 to 2014. You mentioned Takahashi and Lambiel and Verner all screwed up royally at worlds 2008. And Joubert with his mistakes. Lambiel didn't even had his head in the game that season. So obviously that was a pivotal season and changed the whole of mens skating before the 2010 Olympics. Basically I think my thinking was quads now don't matter. Maybe the system has changed to make them matter more from 2010 to 2014 and they can't nearly vanish from the world champions programs like they did from 2006 to 2010.
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Yeah, I should've fully read your post before responding. That was my error. You're such a proponent of the quad that I can definitely see why you're nervous, especially if the top men implode, but I think there's reason to be optimistic.
 
If Evan wants to try, I'd like to see him try. This isn't sarcasm; I think it'd be interesting to watch. :)
 
NO. Evan skated well at the right time. Everything worked out peachy for him...they rules about the quad, his winning the world championship in '09. Everybody and their brother is trying the quad now and many are suceeding even in the SP. Evan is done, I don't think he will come back to competitive skating and certainly not hold out another 4 years. Really why would he? what has he got to prove. 1 olympic gold is enough for most.
 
I can't believe some here are *underestimating* Evan's will & drive to win! I'm not his biggest fan, Zhenya's always been my favorite, but even I don't underestimate Evan. Just tell him he can't do it, and he will prove you wrong. Lol, and I actually love that attitude! :love:

Seriously, who else presently skating can defeat him? Nobody, that's who. They are either too inconsistent, or else don't have what it takes. The only one who has a chance is Evgeni, and he's not competing either this season.

Regards quads, please, just another splatfest like before. None of them is consistent with the quad. Rather just skate clean programs and earn points by backloading the program, tacking on doubles here & there (and I'm not being facetious), and working on the *overall* program, including transitions, skating skills, spins, footwork, et al. This is what will win, not attempting inconsistent quads (which will lose you points), when one can make up for a quad with what I just talked about up above.

Quads only mess up an otherwise clean program. And I honestly would rather see a clean program than a fall. I hate falls, it's heartbreaking. I'd rather see a clean program any day. Doesn't mean I don't love the quad, but none of the men competing nowadays is consistent with them (even my other favorite, Kevin Reynolds, has been messing up on his specialty), so I say skate what you can cleanly, learn by Evan's example, and you will win, especially if you have the complete overall package like Evan had at the Olympics. And this is the truth, I was there at the Olympics, Evan was FAB! It was his overall better program than Zhenya that earned him the title imho. It's not just about jumps, but more importantlty the program, that's where Evgeni went wrong imho.
 
Nadine said:
Seriously, who else presently skating can defeat him? Nobody, that's who. They are either too inconsistent, or else don't have what it takes. The only one who has a chance is Evgeni, and he's not competing either this season.
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Exactly. Of the current skaters the only ones who could beat him are Takahashi and Chan if they could actually skate clean, which they never do.
 
The difference between Patrick and Evan is that Patrick's skating has substance beyond jumps, and Evan's skating is empty beyond the jumps. Patrick can rely on high PCS to hold him up if he falters, but if Evan falls, so does his PCS.
 
boo69 said:
The difference between Patrick and Evan is that Patrick's skating has substance beyond jumps, and Evan's skating is empty beyond the jumps. Patrick can rely on high PCS to hold him up if he falters, but if Evan falls, so does his PCS.
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As Evan's scores last season show the judges do not share your perspective. So what if he couldnt get away with 5 falls a competition like Chan does, Evan doesnt fall all over the ice in every competition the way Chan does anyway.
 
pangtongfan said:
The winner at the 2014 Games unless Evan returns in strong form is Patrick Chan so whether a guy wins in 2014 without a quad or not is dependent on what Patrick Chan is doing one at the 2014 Games or not. Most likely he will fall on his quad and a bunch of other jumps and still win, unless Evan is there and back at his best.
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One goat just sacrificed for Chan. If this is the case and if Chan is to fall in Sochi( I dont wish this AT ALL but if it is to happen) , i hope at least he falls the right amount of times to be the Olympic Champion, not a time less..
 
I say YES, he can, because pangtong won´t stop the discussion until we say yes. ;) Of course the other contenders must fail absolutely miserably, worse than in Vancouver.:agree:
 
seniorita said:
One goat just sacrificed for Chan. If this is the case and if Chan is to fall in Sochi( I dont wish this AT ALL but if it is to happen) , i hope at least he falls the right amount of times to be the Olympic Champion, not a time less..
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If Evan is back then he cant afford any falls if Evan skates well. That is the great thing if Evan were to return. No more Chan winning with 5 falls or more.
 
That is the great thing if Evan were to return. No more Chan winning with 5 falls or more.
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I cant wait, looking forward to seeing him winning again, this is the only thought that will keep me warm as a skating fan till Sochi.:) Satisfied?
 
pangtongfan said:
If Evan returns to competitive skating what are his chances of defending his Olympic title in 2014. I personally think he would have a great chance and probably be the skater to beat.
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No way. No. No. Button at least had a name- Dick. Evan has nothing. Checked.
 
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