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- Dec 4, 2004
I think so too...and kids mix it with alchohol which worses its effects...I think the ancient Egyptians used it for embalming but I am not sure about that...
2016 Cup of China Ladies SP
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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I think so too...and kids mix it with alchohol which worses its effects...I think the ancient Egyptians used it for embalming but I am not sure about that...
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- Feb 24, 2012
I was disappointed in Ashley's program/performance but she still has fight and is in it. I really admire Rad for fighting so hard despite puberty and despite Russian stars all around her.
Nice work from all the Japanese ladies - Rika is hit or miss if you like her == but I do appreciate her skating. I don't think she was really undermarked.
I really hate the hate for Osmond. I don't think it is deserved. People need to remember at one point she looked like she might be a podium contender in her future (early on in her senior career then injuries derailed her. We will see if she is the real deal in this competiiton but she has wonderful speed, power, and is solid in everything with great personality too. She is like Rochette - some how the forgotten star. But there is a sense of genuineness about her prerformance and joy unlike sadly Ashley who is a wonderful performer but it is not within her when she skates. She has confidence and power but it is not from within. Still she has such confidence and fight. I just don't think the Osmond hate is required or fair.
Nice work from all the Japanese ladies - Rika is hit or miss if you like her == but I do appreciate her skating. I don't think she was really undermarked.
I really hate the hate for Osmond. I don't think it is deserved. People need to remember at one point she looked like she might be a podium contender in her future (early on in her senior career then injuries derailed her. We will see if she is the real deal in this competiiton but she has wonderful speed, power, and is solid in everything with great personality too. She is like Rochette - some how the forgotten star. But there is a sense of genuineness about her prerformance and joy unlike sadly Ashley who is a wonderful performer but it is not within her when she skates. She has confidence and power but it is not from within. Still she has such confidence and fight. I just don't think the Osmond hate is required or fair.
Osmond has joined the upper echelon of the ladies and unfortunately for her fans, that comes with increased scrutiny like all skaters in that realm for all disciplines are under. And as is expected for virtually every upper-tier skater, people will criticize Katelyn's federations for inflation. How many times have we heard accusations of the Russian federation cheating or the US propping up their skaters? Newsflash: Canada isn't exempt.
I also don't understand this whole victim complex that so many fans of certain countries have, namely those from Canada and Russia. I've observed quite often on several boards and social media that many criticisms thrown at skaters from these countries tend to elicit a reaction of anti-[insert country] sentiment. "Oh, you think Katelyn is overscored? You must hate Canada!" "You think Medvedeva's jump technique is terrible? Looks like we have an anti-Russian here!"
It's funny because I don't recall any American claim that someone is anti-USA because they say Ashley has no transitions in her program or that the Shibutanis are boring. As someone who grew up in Norway and was subjected to the "USA! USA! USA! LET'S GO POUND SOME FOUR LOKO AND FLIP SOME BURGERS AS WE WAVE OUR AMERICAN FLAG ON THE FOURTH OF JULY!" nonsense, it's kind of fascinating to see that Americans tend to be the least patriotic ubers across several international sports.
On the other hand, Russians and Canadians tend to back their skaters with complete fervor. How many times have we seen an American Gracie fan throw Ashley under the bus? Or a Shibs superfan hate on Chock & Bates? It's quite rare to see a Russian or a Canadian bash one of their own in favor of a personal favorite.
Sorry for the off-topic post. It was just an interesting observation.
It could be how figure skating is seen by one country's fans/skaters. Kori Ade talked about this on her TSL co-hosting segment--how skaters/parents from Russia accept that their kid might be weeded out for the good of the overall program, while in the U.S. parents are more focus on their kid's progress, almost to the detriment of their long-term prospects, both individually and for the federation. We have seen that happen with some skaters.
Of course there are notable exceptions.
Also with the exception of soccer and maybe Olympics-- there isn't really a ton of opportunities to get into the "rah-rah USA spirit." Most of the popular sports in the U.S. are team sports -- so they back a specific team/city.
Interesting thoughts.
Yes, but the key words you used is "up to the beginning of the event". Likewise in figure skating, the ISU weeds out and seeds skaters with rankings, minimum scores, etc. up to the competitions. However what was implied in the original post was, the judges should/are also factoring history/reputation into the PCS scores "on the day of the event".
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- Jul 9, 2014
Ohhhhhh, well that's different. Believe me, I have never been in favor of skaters being "Held Up" by the judges. I know I've said this before but, IMO, Michelle was one of the most "Held Up" skaters, especially during the 1998/1999 season. Even when she lost to Maria at Worlds, she was IMO, gifted the Silver. Michelle was admittedly suffering from the effects of theFlu and did not skate well in either portion of the event. Here's Maria Butyrskaya's SP from the Japan Open in 1999. She skated very well and nailed all of her jumps. You can here Peter mention that Michelle had doubled her Solo Jump and she STILL beat Maria. This just proves that you never know what the judges will do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cht_9tFzq-Q
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- Apr 5, 2016
I think the reaction you guys are seeing from Canadian fans is a response to comments disparaging not just about the judging at Skate Canada but the fans in attendance and the country itself. Coming up with conspiracy theories. People going out of their way to make impolite comments, even about people who weren't on the podium like Alaine Chartrand. Now we won't insult posters by naming names. Calling out people is :roll5: But surely people can vent some frustration, no? Kaetlyn could be at 68 or 78 and you'd get similar responses.
I'm personally still bleeding for Rika. The girl works so hard even in practices that I'm super disappointed by what happened to her here. The small comfort she has is that her PCS went up and she's still at level 4 everything else. I hope she's clean at Japanese Nationals. But it does look like she may get left behind in the mad dash that is the senior podium race in Japan. Those Japanese junior ladies are coming out strong. The depth of the Japanese ladies' field is going to crush some seniors, alas.
I'm personally still bleeding for Rika. The girl works so hard even in practices that I'm super disappointed by what happened to her here. The small comfort she has is that her PCS went up and she's still at level 4 everything else. I hope she's clean at Japanese Nationals. But it does look like she may get left behind in the mad dash that is the senior podium race in Japan. Those Japanese junior ladies are coming out strong. The depth of the Japanese ladies' field is going to crush some seniors, alas.
What is about the hate on Osmond ? I think the score maybe was a point or two too big, BUT so are the scores for russian girls with small jumps without good flow
she skates mighty fast, powerfull, she has huge jumps, fantastic presentation ( a lot more than any russian girl), she is a woman on the ice
she skates mighty fast, powerfull, she has huge jumps, fantastic presentation ( a lot more than any russian girl), she is a woman on the ice
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2015
Osmond has joined the upper echelon of the ladies and unfortunately for her fans, that comes with increased scrutiny like all skaters in that realm for all disciplines are under. And as is expected for virtually every upper-tier skater, people will criticize Katelyn's federations for inflation. How many times have we heard accusations of the Russian federation cheating or the US propping up their skaters? Newsflash: Canada isn't exempt.
I also don't understand this whole victim complex that so many fans of certain countries have, namely those from Canada and Russia. I've observed quite often on several boards and social media that many criticisms thrown at skaters from these countries tend to elicit a reaction of anti-[insert country] sentiment. "Oh, you think Katelyn is overscored? You must hate Canada!" "You think Medvedeva's jump technique is terrible? Looks like we have an anti-Russian here!"
It's funny because I don't recall any American claim that someone is anti-USA because they say Ashley has no transitions in her program or that the Shibutanis are boring. As someone who grew up in Norway and was subjected to the "USA! USA! USA! LET'S GO POUND SOME FOUR LOKO AND FLIP SOME BURGERS AS WE WAVE OUR AMERICAN FLAG ON THE FOURTH OF JULY!" nonsense, it's kind of fascinating to see that Americans tend to be the least patriotic ubers across several international sports.
On the other hand, Russians and Canadians tend to back their skaters with complete fervor. How many times have we seen an American Gracie fan throw Ashley under the bus? Or a Shibs superfan hate on Chock & Bates? It's quite rare to see a Russian or a Canadian bash one of their own in favor of a personal favorite.
Sorry for the off-topic post. It was just an interesting observation.
I applaud your comment. Thank you.
Hello everyone, I've been lurking around this forum for a while now and there always seems to be cries of overscoring after an event. So inspired by the above post, I wanted to see if this was true at the Ladies short program here. I calculated the would-be scores from each judge and plotted their deviation from each skater's mean score on 2 charts, one with all 12 ladies scores and another with just the Top 8 since the scoring for the bottom 4 was quite erratic for a few judges.
http://imgur.com/a/Prt71
For those who can't look at the chart for whatever reason, my conclusions are as follows:
- Kaetlyn's actual score is very close to her mean as the high scoring by the Canadian judge is counteracted by low scoring from China. Therefore, you could say she was scored correctly.
- Elena's score is actually 0.41 higher than her mean because the judges were mostly in agreement other than the Australian judge really really not liking her (65.84 :eeking
so I suppose her scores always got thrown out. - The Canadian judge generally scores people higher than the other judges, being consistently over the mean for most skaters. However, she DID give Kaetlyn a slightly bigger boost compared to other skaters.
- The Russian judge is very good at getting close to the mean but she also gives the Russian skaters a bit of a boost. It's not very noticeable for Elena because Japan and Hong Kong gave her similar scores but her score for Elizaveta was noticeably higher than other judges who were all pretty close to the mean.
- The USA judge gave Karen a boost but didn't prop up Ashley or Courtney.
- China and Australia have wildly varying scores but USA, Russia and Italy are pretty consistently around the mean. Sweden is also very consistent except for not liking Rika and Mai.
- Hong Kong, Sweden and China are hard to please (ie, they generally give lower scores)
Personally, I thought Kaetlyn's score was about right since she has wonderful speed going into jumps and her spins are among the fastest. I thought Elena would get slightly higher to be honest but looking back, she does look more cautious than usual at the start.
Gosh that was a lot longer than expected, sorry about that.
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- Mar 29, 2016
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Judging by your chart it seems like ITA, USA, HNK and RUS judges were a bit less deviating from the mean score than others aka "more fair in average". And all judges tends to be a bit more generous for "their national" skater. RUS judges seems to have a bit softer spot for Tukti than to others. Tukti seems to have the fairest score (lowest number of deviation) across all judges (except a bit more generous RUS judge). At least judges have consensus on her.
Amazing job, keep it coming. This is extremely interesting. Not to start another heated war, but at least people will have more objective hard numbers behind their accusations. Thanks! Welcome to the forum. Please post more and often. *handshake*
Tukti seems to have the fairest score (lowest number of deviation) across all judges (except a bit more generous RUS judge). At least judges have consensus on her. Amazing job, keep it coming. This is extremely interesting. Not to start another heated war, but at least people will have more objective hard numbers behind their accusations. Thanks! Welcome to the forum. Please post more and often. *handshake*
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- Jan 11, 2014
That's very nice work you did there. Thanks for the info. 
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2015
it's infuriating how Rika Hongo never gets the credit she deserves.
for example, in the SP one judge gave her -3 for her almost perfect flip that had so much speed, good height and landing with nice flow? seriously what is this Australian's problem?
so the goe for her flip ranges from +2 to -3
also, her Layback spin below was so well executed with zero travelling (except the entry part) , perfect positions, enough rotations although it didn't have crazy fast speed, for me it should get mostly 2s and few 1s but her calculated GOE for the spin was only 0.43!
https://youtu.be/euyOpRqUQQA?t=59s
and her 2A had nice speed going into it and looked big and had nice flow but still the GOE is only 0.57
and I noticed her posture improved so much since last year and she looks much more fluid now..
getting consistently underscored like this must have crushed her self esteem a lot
it's sad that she's not one of the chosen ones by judges
for example, in the SP one judge gave her -3 for her almost perfect flip that had so much speed, good height and landing with nice flow? seriously what is this Australian's problem?
so the goe for her flip ranges from +2 to -3
also, her Layback spin below was so well executed with zero travelling (except the entry part) , perfect positions, enough rotations although it didn't have crazy fast speed, for me it should get mostly 2s and few 1s but her calculated GOE for the spin was only 0.43!
https://youtu.be/euyOpRqUQQA?t=59s
and her 2A had nice speed going into it and looked big and had nice flow but still the GOE is only 0.57
and I noticed her posture improved so much since last year and she looks much more fluid now..
getting consistently underscored like this must have crushed her self esteem a lot
it's sad that she's not one of the chosen ones by judgesSimilar threads
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