He won 2 worlds with 2 VERY bad skates in the LP, that's exactly why it is so revolting. If falls are appealing to you, go watch Kim Kelly in 1990 chuchini cup on youtube, she falls in every tumbling pass, it's beautiful.
2013 Worlds Men LP
- Thread starter BlackAxel
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He won 2 worlds with 2 VERY bad skates in the LP, that's exactly why it is so revolting. If falls are appealing to you, go watch Kim Kelly in 1990 chuchini cup on youtube, she falls in every tumbling pass, it's beautiful.
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- Jun 16, 2010
if Kim Kelly were a figure skater under COP though she would have won 3 or 4 World AA titles, as that is what COP rewards in the sport now for singles skaters.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
If Denis had not of done the 2F+2T and did a triple combo instead and still came second I would have been annoyed with the result. However I still think the best skater of the competition is Patrick. Due to the great short!
Remember Chan may have made a lot of mistakes but he racks up a lot of points for those 2 quads. Also his in between skating is a lot better, he may not show to much emotion in his skating but it isn't an acting competition. It should come down to who is better at skating, which is CHAN.
Remember Chan may have made a lot of mistakes but he racks up a lot of points for those 2 quads. Also his in between skating is a lot better, he may not show to much emotion in his skating but it isn't an acting competition. It should come down to who is better at skating, which is CHAN.
And there we go again. *yawn*
Two falls don't mean everything else doesn't count.
A great competition for Denis but his skating is nowhere near Chan's level and both of his programs were quite bland and generic.
A bit of crap event with a lot of errors. The most impressive performances came from the guys lower down the rankings. Liebers and Rogozine were both amazing and gave me goosebumps.
Joubert frustrates me. His technical content is not at the level of the other men and it's just not possible for him to earn a lot of points even if he skates clean (which he didn't).
Sorry but this is generic ranting without any actual thought in it. It basically says: 'I am angry.'
The suggestion that ISU should do something just because people are incapable of critical thinking and do not understand neither figure skating, nor the judging system is laughable.
Yes, let's let the angry mob dictate the results, that would be much better.
Two falls don't mean everything else doesn't count.
A great competition for Denis but his skating is nowhere near Chan's level and both of his programs were quite bland and generic.
A bit of crap event with a lot of errors. The most impressive performances came from the guys lower down the rankings. Liebers and Rogozine were both amazing and gave me goosebumps.
Joubert frustrates me. His technical content is not at the level of the other men and it's just not possible for him to earn a lot of points even if he skates clean (which he didn't).
Sorry but this is generic ranting without any actual thought in it. It basically says: 'I am angry.'
The suggestion that ISU should do something just because people are incapable of critical thinking and do not understand neither figure skating, nor the judging system is laughable.
Yes, let's let the angry mob dictate the results, that would be much better.
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2013
Modified COP according to this thread
TES
A. Increase fall deduction and -GOE for quads
B. 4t fall< good 3lz or 3f
C. Put +GOE for triples back to +1, +2, +3
D. GOE bullets: meets all for +3, 3/4 for +2, and 1/4-1/2 for +1
E. Fall GOE is -3 regardless of other factors
F. No postive GOE for visible errors
PCS
G. Cap PCS depending on errors (ie minor errors capped at 8, 1 fall 7.5, ect)
H. Eliminate the corridor
General stuff
I. Get rid of anonymous judging
J. SP has set TES, elements rotate each year
K. SP PCS is .8x for all
TES
A. Increase fall deduction and -GOE for quads
B. 4t fall< good 3lz or 3f
C. Put +GOE for triples back to +1, +2, +3
D. GOE bullets: meets all for +3, 3/4 for +2, and 1/4-1/2 for +1
E. Fall GOE is -3 regardless of other factors
F. No postive GOE for visible errors
PCS
G. Cap PCS depending on errors (ie minor errors capped at 8, 1 fall 7.5, ect)
H. Eliminate the corridor
General stuff
I. Get rid of anonymous judging
J. SP has set TES, elements rotate each year
K. SP PCS is .8x for all
So I guess folks like Todd Eldridge, Johnny Weir, and Christina Gao just don't understand good skating? The issue here is many think that multiple glaring errors should effect your results. Feeling this way doesn't mean you don't understand the sport. Its not like Patrick had one fall and was brilliant elsewhere.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
I'm normally on your side in this debate. I just don't think I am now. I have no problem thumbing my nose at the apostate mob, but I don't think you have to be incapable of critical thinking to find this result spurious at best. It wasn't just the two falls, in my mind.
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2009
I love Canada! How can you not love the federation who is so good at politiking for their skaters in every dirty way possible. I wouldn't be that sure on D/W fans' place with FD outcome. SC is probably preparing the bed for Voir now to let them rest before each lift. And then there is Osmond..
Ten should have won. But what is some Kazakhstan on ISU books.
Watching Hanyu after he finished his FS was the most painful thing that I have ever seen in fs. I thought he would need an oxygen tank to breathe and some assitance to leave the ice. When they showed the overjoyed Orser I almost puked. On the other hand, maybe like a true Canadian patriot he was indeed happy. Afterall thanks to his coaching policy one of PChan's rival was removed from the medal scene.
Dai- take a rest I would say. But he is already scheduled for a charity show in Kobe, and then WTT, then again ... It's gonna be the last competitive season for him so everyone is trying to get as much cash as possible from this milch cow. It's impossible to deal with this reality in Japan where Dai didn't have any holiday off-season. Perhaps NM was right afterall when he said to R-radio that next season Dai will be spending much time in Novogorsk, i.e. far from all this crap and JSF.
Schizophrenic event in general. :disapp:
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2010
This kind of snobbish holier than thou and close minded attitude will only help further turn fans away from the sport and help to kill an already dead sport. Like it or not figure skating needs casual fans and tons of them, and if they continue to be alienated and mystified by what is going on, figure skating will be taken off the life support it is already on completely.
That would mean skaters would take much less risks and we would see easier programs.
And then people would complain about the lack of difficulty.
I agree. But quads are only so overvalued because everybody whined about them not being rewarded enough.
Well, you got what you wanted, people.
Why? I think quality should be rewarded over difficulty.
No element could ever get +3 then, really. But I do agree judges should be more strict and not hand out those marks like candy.
You should consider everything and not just the landing.
Just because some errors are visible and others aren't doesn't make give them greater magnitude. And you should consider EVERYTHING when judging an element and not just the errors.
This way you are punishing the skaters twice. Elements are elements, presentation is presentation.
Definitely. It means judges are marking as they expect others to mark and not what they see.
That would make the politics ten times worse. Do people really not understand that? It would create deals, tit for tat (you marked our skater low, you're screwed), etc.
I think that FS should probably carry a little more weight, yes.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
OK, so after a good night's sleep here is what I think.
There is no point in blaming Patrick Chan for anything. He tried his best; it wan't his day.
There is no point in blaming the judges. They gave their marks according to the rules.
Figure skating has flushed itself down the toilet in the last decade. Apologists for the CoP say this is a good thing, offering the same lame excuses season after season. You reap what you sow.
There is no point in blaming Patrick Chan for anything. He tried his best; it wan't his day.
There is no point in blaming the judges. They gave their marks according to the rules.
Figure skating has flushed itself down the toilet in the last decade. Apologists for the CoP say this is a good thing, offering the same lame excuses season after season. You reap what you sow.
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But errors do affect your result. And yes, other than the falls, Chan did skate really well.
Errors do not mean everything else suddenly stops to count. There's loads of things that were excellent about Chan's skating (those two quads were just perfect, for example, I have never see a quad executed so well before).
I understand your point but this is sport and not an entertainment show. People would always complain about the results, whatever the judging system, just because they liked Skater A more than Skater B.
I don't really see how this problem could get resolved.
I really wouldn't like to see skating simplified and bad skating being rewarded. And by bad skating, I don't mean mistakes. I mean poor technique, lack of difficulty and so on and so forth.
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- Feb 4, 2012
Who knows what would've happened if Yuzuru had stayed with Nanami Abe. I don't think he will leave Orser, though. Poor Daisuke, so much to do, he should rest. While I think it's good for him to go to Russia and get away from it all, I'm conflicted. It might be good for Sochi that he is with NM. But in reality I just want Dai to leave him, and think the decision to go back to NM was a bad one.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I don't see why punishing skaters twice is so bad in itself. You have to look at whether the proposed deductions for major mistakes are going to be more accurate in reflecting what the skater produced over what we have now.
I just it's funny that some are so nonchalant about big falls in a routine (and multiple falls) and can live with a performance that is mired in them winning a competition, but once you talk about underrotation and fluting or lipping, then it's the end of figure skating.
I mean, is anyone complaining that transitions are basically being rewarded twice (in jump GOE and in a separate category in PCS)?
I just it's funny that some are so nonchalant about big falls in a routine (and multiple falls) and can live with a performance that is mired in them winning a competition, but once you talk about underrotation and fluting or lipping, then it's the end of figure skating.
I mean, is anyone complaining that transitions are basically being rewarded twice (in jump GOE and in a separate category in PCS)?
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2011
Well Ziggy, you have to admit that what I wrote about falls vs. under-rotations and pops has been borne out by what happened.
Also, I don't agree that removing the anonymity and holding judges accountable for their scores would "make the politics ten times worse." The unspoken assumption you are making is that the amount of politicking/deal-making is significantly lower now, but is that indeed the case? I don't know, but I don't think you can assume it is. The point is with anonymous judging we never will know.
Also, I don't agree that removing the anonymity and holding judges accountable for their scores would "make the politics ten times worse." The unspoken assumption you are making is that the amount of politicking/deal-making is significantly lower now, but is that indeed the case? I don't know, but I don't think you can assume it is. The point is with anonymous judging we never will know.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2011
How can you not love the federation who is so good at politiking for their skaters in every dirty way possible. I wouldn't be that sure on D/W fans' place with FD outcome. SC is probably preparing the bed for Voir now to let them rest before each lift. And then there is Osmond..
D/W will have to be squeky clean in the FD, they will be nitpicked in every move, one small lift mistakes could cost them the Gold medal
then there is Osmond who is a lock for the bronze medal skating in Canada
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2013
My responses in bold
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2004
OK, so after a good night's sleep here is what I think.
There is no point in blaming Patrick Chan for anything. He tried his best; it wan't his day.
There is no point in blaming the judges. They gave their marks according to the rules.
Figure skating has flushed itself down the toilet in the last decade. Apologists for the CoP say this is a good thing, offering the same lame excuses season after season. You reap what you sow.
There is a lot of truth in your post Mathman, 71 pages and 1061 posts and still counting. lol
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