2015 Skate America Ladies FS Oct 24

[Hanmgse]

I'm so happy for Gracie, it was a beautiful skate

 

[Violetti]

Gracie's programs are much better than last season. She is not my favourite but she's got something new and is more joy to watch.
Evegenia's tanos do not disturb me as tanos often do in my opinion. I just wonder if it will be more difficult to make tanos with perfect jumps when one grows and body is more grown-up. Serafima's jumps and tanos are not good any more or there are problems there.

 

[Mathman]

I really dislike 3-1-3 combos regardless of who does it. 10 out of 10 casual viewers will say the skater made a mistake after seeing one.

Karen Chen's 2A+1Lo+3S might ber an exception, though. The movement was fluid yet deliberate throughout, IMHO.

There's no scoring benefit for ladies to do 3-1-3 combos instead of 3-3. Only reason to do it is if you're not consistent with +3Toe or if you for some reason find it difficult to do +2Toe+2Loop combos.

Can't it get you put of Zayak jams, or let you eke out a seventh triple in some layouts?

Also, if you do two +3T combos, then you can't double up on two Lutzes and two flips, or two Lutzes and two loops.

 

[Blades of Passion]

What happens with the half-loop combo, for a female program, is the skater replaces a 3Toe and 2Loop they could be doing (base value of 6.1 points) with a 3Loop and 1Loop (base value of 5.6 points). So they are losing out half a point. Repeat the 3Flip instead of 3Loop and you're still behind on base value by .3 points.

If you are bad at doing three-jump combos that use +2Toe+2Loop (and are instead only comfortable with +2Toe+2Toe), then the XXX+1Loop+3Sal combo can save you from a potential zayak problem in comparison to having two +3Toe combos and doubling out on one them them. However, assuming those two layouts are skated perfectly (aka, the "Gracie Gold" layout and the "Radionova" layout) there's still no difference in base value. The XXX+1Loop+3Sal doesn't actually add anything. It's just a better route to take for people who aren't good at doing the standard "Miyahara" layout, which is actually what is worth the highest value.

So it comes down to the skater's strengths. People like Radionova can consistently do the +3Toe combos, and she did the +2Toe+2Loop combos as a Junior without problem, so her current jump layout is basically uglier than it needs to be while also being worth a half point less. I wish she wouldn't do it. For someone like Karen Chen who clearly does have consistency issues with fully rotating that +3Toe combo, the +1Loop+3Sal option is smart.

Then there are the Ashley Wagners who can't rotate either of them consistently and should be doing the smarter option of 3Loop+2Axel and 3Toe+2Axel sequences, while heavily backloading jumps.

 

[Ginask8s]

I agree bout Gracie's program needing more. Something is definitely missing. She is so focused on landing her jumps that she lacks expression and does not perform. It is very tense ( I don't just mean because it is Firebird, I know the music creates tension)but her body is tense and her face is definitely tense.
I am excited to see Ashley's response to 'this is Gracie's year' next week.

I agree.

 

[gravy]

What happens with the half-loop combo, for a female program, is the skater replaces a 3Toe and 2Loop they could be doing (base value of 6.1 points) with a 3Loop and 1Loop (base value of 5.6 points). So they are losing out half a point. Repeat the 3Flip instead of 3Loop and you're still behind on base value by .3 points.

If you are bad at doing three-jump combos that use +2Toe+2Loop (and are instead only comfortable with +2Toe+2Toe), then the XXX+1Loop+3Sal combo can save you from a potential zayak problem in comparison to having two +3Toe combos and doubling out on one them them. However, assuming those two layouts are skated perfectly (aka, the "Gracie Gold" layout and the "Radionova" layout) there's still no difference in base value. The XXX+1Loop+3Sal doesn't actually add anything. It's just a better route to take for people who aren't good at doing the standard "Miyahara" layout, which is actually what is worth the highest value.

So it comes down to the skater's strengths. People like Radionova can consistently do the +3Toe combos, and she did the +2Toe+2Loop combos as a Junior without problem, so her current jump layout is basically uglier than it needs to be while also being worth a half point less. I wish she wouldn't do it. For someone like Karen Chen who clearly does have consistency issues with fully rotating that +3Toe combo, the +1Loop+3Sal option is smart.

Then there are the Ashley Wagners who can't rotate either of them consistently and should be doing the smarter option of 3Loop+2Axel and 3Toe+2Axel sequences, while heavily backloading jumps.

You can't lie with the math, but sometimes it's an aesthetic thing. Very few half loop combinations look good, but the few that do look gorgeous and are worth putting in the program in my opinion (it will cost them points, but whatever).

https://youtu.be/PKUwX55dEew?t=50

 

[Ginask8s]

Karen Chen is going to be a beautiful classic skater.

I agree!

 

[Ginask8s]

Medvedeva scares me when she does that transition single spin with her leg to her head. The same one Cohen used to do. It always looks so unsteady. It was in the SP too. Sasha's looked much steadier

The I position with the 3 turn skid? Awesome!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ginask8s]

I think all the young ladies who are sporting the over the boot tights need to lose them. It ruins the line for me, looks like practice wear, and hides toe point. Evgenia has beautiful legs but the tights made her feet look like blocks on the end. Gracies line looked great with the nice old fashioned white boot! Just my opinion.

 

[EdgeCall]

A little OT, but i think it's funny how the skaters are not only competitive athletes but seem to double as fashion models as well. Every detail of their costumes is closely examined. When will the rinks officially turn into catwalks and fashion houses like Versace or Gucci start to design the costumes?

 

[semosk8tfan]

I think all the young ladies who are sporting the over the boot tights need to lose them. It ruins the line for me, looks like practice wear, and hides toe point. Evgenia has beautiful legs but the tights made her feet look like blocks on the end. Gracies line looked great with the nice old fashioned white boot! Just my opinion.

Totally agree! And Lip's tights only over the back half of her boot drives me really crazy.

 

[Khoai]

I know people dislike Miss Gold's interpretation and her inconsistency. But in my opinion she should have won gold with such a performance. It is not like she bombed in the SP. Looking at the lady in first place, and her jumps, and those ugly tano, I feel bad for the judging.

 

[Jombi]

When will the rinks officially turn into catwalks and fashion houses like Versace or Gucci start to design the costumes?

We've already passed that point, eg. Cavalli designing (gorgeous) costumes for Kostner
http://www.stylosophy.it/foto/roberto-cavalli-carolina-kostner-europei_2602_2.html

 

[chairmanmao]

USFSA needs to figure out how to play the political game because we play by the rules way to much and Russia just craps all over the rules and win.

As if Gold deserved those PCS. The component scores of the top 2 left me wondering if they'll give Mao 75+ PCS each time she skates because those two shouldn't even be scoring over 65+ ever.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

The I position with the 3 turn skid? Awesome!!!!!!!!!

I love that Sasha throwback skid spiral. As Dick Button said its a dangerous move and shows a lot of edge control.

Medvedeva actually has quite a few transitions.

It's evident that the senior B/Japan open helped Medvedeva and Uno... Both had unprecedented PCS scores at Skate America, for skaters in their first senior season.

 

[Sydney Rose]

I think all the young ladies who are sporting the over the boot tights need to lose them. It ruins the line for me, looks like practice wear, and hides toe point. Evgenia has beautiful legs but the tights made her feet look like blocks on the end. Gracies line looked great with the nice old fashioned white boot! Just my opinion.

Evgenia has more than beautiful legs; she has the ability to think on her feet and improvise after falling. She deserved that gold medal.

And I could care less about how any female skater wears her tights. I think most skaters, male and female, show their best lines when they're skating in their black practice clothing.

 

[Jammers]

I see Evgenia struggling with those average jumps as she grow taller and develops and i don't see her doing many tano's when it happens.

 

[Rissa]

I know people dislike Miss Gold's interpretation and her inconsistency. But in my opinion she should have won gold with such a performance. It is not like she bombed in the SP. Looking at the lady in first place, and her jumps, and those ugly tano, I feel bad for the judging.

I came to like Gracie, but ugh, that Firebird lacked fire something fierce. I actually liked her SP much better despite the jump mistake. I don't think she was robbed at all. Evgenia deserved that first place, I even would have put her ahead in the free, but since I'm finding the final standing just, I don't mind.

Medvedeva actually has quite a few transitions.

It's evident that the senior B/Japan open helped Medvedeva and Uno... Both had unprecedented PCS scores at Skate America, for skaters in their first senior season.

Good for them, I think. Young skaters shouldn't be held down on PCS just because they're new to the senior circuit.

I hope the same will happen for Daniel Samohin next season. He's capable of medaling at Europeans, I think, and that should make judges sit up and pay attention.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Good for them, I think. Young skaters shouldn't be held down on PCS just because they're new to the senior circuit.

I hope the same will happen for Daniel Samohin next season. He's capable of medaling at Europeans, I think, and that should make judges sit up and pay attention.

I thoroughly agree with this. But mid-80's and mid-60's for programs with errors is rather high. By the end of the season will a clean Medvedeva be in the 70's or a clean Uno in the 90's? I would hope not - and I say that as huge fans of theirs. I still don't think they're good enough or their programs complex enough to get those types of PCS scores at this point. They do, however, deserve an opportunity to win just like the next skater - and not have to fight to make the podium just because they're getting junior-level PCS.

 

[Rissa]

I thoroughly agree with this. But mid-80's and mid-60's for programs with errors is rather high. By the end of the season will a clean Medvedeva be in the 70's or a clean Uno in the 90's? I would hope not - and I say that as huge fans of theirs. I still don't think they're good enough or their programs complex enough to get those types of PCS scores at this point. They do, however, deserve an opportunity to win just like the next skater - and not have to fight to make the podium just because they're getting junior-level PCS.

I don't think so... They got those high PCS with very good performances so I don't think they'll go up much more, not this season. I think it will be different when they are put next to the real PCS juggernauts: Mao for Evgenia and Chanyu for Shoma.