2015 US Nationals Senior Ladies FS Jan 24 | Page 64 | Golden Skate

2015 US Nationals Senior Ladies FS Jan 24

I hope so, but the internet memes with her KandC reactions so far have proven otherwise. I actually like her and hope she can medal.

I don't agree at least about the K&C. She was happy to get such a big score from her federation, sure. But she'd seen Chen get 135 so obviously she expected a big score. Being happy to get a monster score from your federation does not mean you expect to get it elsewhere. Haven't' seen most of the interviews yet so will withhold comment until I do. As for memes, people make them to be funny/clever. They are more of a joke than an indication of the real mindset of the person in them.
 
Mohammed Ali called himself "The Greatest" and many people felt he was entitled because he delivered.

Such bragging is much better accepted in more macho sports and the athletes work to earn the bragging rights.
Ali also said: "I am the Greatest, I said that even before I knew I was." :)
Some want to give their best possible performance and some others (like Ashley, obviously) want to win. Didn't she say: "I want MY title back!" ?
I find it impressive, when an athlete is able to deliver like that.
 
I'm here (I'm a "he", BTW)...I was following along on Twitter and trying to capture the action...still more editing left to do tomorrow but glad the feed was mostly clean, only cut out shortly a couple of times...

Onto the skating...first, I want to say this: Wow, what a women's event we had tonight. So many great performances, redemption skates, etc.

This Karen Chen girl, we might be onto something here. She is small yet skates big - she has a lot of confidence - she stands out. And she skated really well...yet another surprise medalist after Edmunds came out of nowhere last year. This year, it's Chen. And she's even too young to go to Worlds so Edmunds in 4th lucks out with another (likely) trip to worlds this year, hope she makes the most of it! Only thing is that I want to caution people against anointing Chen- she WILL grow and she WILL go through some rough patches. Are we going to give her some space and let her develop or are we going to burden her with expectations and then get all mad if/when she doesn't live up to them immediately?

Nagasu - You know, I get the feeling I'm more emotionally detached watching skating then the average skatefan. It takes a LOT to make me feel much of anything. Yet, for the first time I really felt for Nagasu here. Even more so than last year, because she'd already been to the Olympics after all - I saw a LOT of skaters skate very close to the walls here in Greensboro but she's the only one that actually caught the end and fell. An awkward fall, too...busted her knee, looked to be in serious pain and it took her out of the performance. She was doing so well up to that point and then a freak accident like that happens. Can't catch a break, just bad luck again for yet ANOTHER year. But I know she'll be the stronger for it in the end - she fought through the rest of the skate and she needn't feel sorry for herself. There's always next year.

Good for Cesario for coming back after her shaky SP - one of many redemption skates we had tonight. Gao (who skated much earlier) had another one.

Too bad for Hicks - this was really her time to shine and she squandered a GREAT opportunity to get on the podium. Just wasn't her night, and after a killer SP it was rather disappointing. Because, outside of the Big Two, a solid Hicks is probably the next best thing to have at Worlds. Unfortunately Hicks just can't seem to get it together at the big events and it continues to hurt her.

Wagner - I don't even know where to start...You know, we fans who have followed skating have known of Wagner since 2008, and it feels like she's been on the scene a long time. Yet, every time she appears to be regressing or stagnating after a great prior skate and people start to count her out, she somehow manages to pull a rabbit out of a hat and take things to the next level. I guess passion and dedication have no bounds. First, I thought 2012 worlds was the best it was gonna get for her...then 2014 Olympics...then 2014 Worlds...and then finally, 2014 GPF. But no, she continues to raise the bar of what we all thought was possible from her. I mean, who would have thought she would do a clean 3-3? A lutz-toe at that? Two of them (even if one is a sequence)? That FS was probably the first time I've seen her truly give a world-class skate. One of the best National performances I've seen in a long time, especially from ladies. I actually had flashbacks to Kwan in 2004 at the end, it was that good. Do that at Worlds and you just may have yourself a medal, assuming you haven't buried yourself with yet another mediocre SP...Wagner got a huge, HUGE monkey off her back tonight. She actually delivered the goods when it counted most, and at Nationals to boot, her weakest event traditionally. Well-deserved winner, even if the score was a bit :eek: But I will hold off on the anointing once again - ice is slippery, and I find myself doubting that she can do it again at Worlds. But hey, she's on a roll here proving people wrong with great skates, why not once more?

Gold - Considering the position she was in, I think she actually did really well. Fall aside, she didn't let the task of skating after Wagner overwhelm her and she held it together. It's like Sochi when she followed Sotnikova's skate (sorry to bring her up again) and did decently there, too. That said, I think Gold's weaknesses were accentuated skating immediately after eccentric Wagner. To me, Gold's performance, although technically solid minus a fall, fell flat. There really was no way Gold was going to beat Wagner that night even if clean - forget the 5 point SP lead - it was one of those nights that just belonged to Wagner and no one else. Still, Gold goes to Worlds and call me crazy if you want, but Gold is STILL very much a contender for a World podium spot, and Gold is STILL the best the US has to offer when she is on, although I must say Wagner is closing the gap very quickly(!). Don't count Gracie Gold out yet, guys. I get the feeling she's not done yet...it's gonna be a great rivalry between her and Wagner as long as both can stay healthy and keep their level.

Edmunds - Decent effort here too, although the fall likely cost her bronze. Not that it matters that much, given that Chen isn't old enough for Worlds anyway. Got a monkey off her back too, clean SP finally followed by a FS where she didn't fall apart.

So...definitely an exciting night - and hopefully the tone was set moving forward. I would like for one (or both, even!!) of Wagner and Gold to finally end our 8-year drought of world medals...it IS possible...and doable...they just need to execute...the Russians, although tough, aren't invincible, as we have seen...

:agree:
 
I don't agree at least about the K&C. She was happy to get such a big score from her federation, sure. But she'd seen Chen get 135 so obviously she expected a big score. Being happy to get a monster score from your federation does not mean you expect to get it elsewhere. Haven't' seen most of the interviews yet so will withhold comment until I do. As for memes, people make them to be funny/clever. They are more of a joke than an indication of the real mindset of the person in them.

I was not talking about this event.
http://i.imgur.com/ykaNr6d.jpg
 
For some reason, the "he" amused the crap out of me... must be the sleepies but spot on analysis (aside from the Kwan comparison, no need to be as overblown as the scores...) and here's hoping for worlds...

Ashley or Gracie really could end the drought - now the story might be a lot harder if Russia was allowed to have five ladies but only three so yes, There is a chance for sure.
 
I loved Ashley's performance last night--the woman is spunky and fierce as all get out! :love:

I must say that I find criticism of Ashley being too outspoken and "cocky" very troubling. I have a nagging feeling that if she was male, many of those critics would find the self-confidence and outspokenness simply the sign of a tough athlete. Well, she is. These women are hard-working athletes and fierce competitors. As Johnny put it so well last night, ladies' figure skating is "brass knuckles under velvet gloves".

Stay true to yourself Ashley, and let your confidence and competitiveness shine! :cheer:

:agree:
 
I don't agree at least about the K&C. She was happy to get such a big score from her federation, sure. But she'd seen Chen get 135 so obviously she expected a big score. Being happy to get a monster score from your federation does not mean you expect to get it elsewhere. Haven't' seen most of the interviews yet so will withhold comment until I do. As for memes, people make them to be funny/clever. They are more of a joke than an indication of the real mindset of the person in them.

Everyone has missed the obvious regarding Ashley's reaction in the K&C. The big deal is that she knew, especially with the lead that she had going in, that she had slammed the door and the title was hers.

Gracie and Polina could have skated the most magnificent programs ever skated, and it wouldn't have been enough.

I don't recall any chatter from her regarding scoring. She was all about regaining the title and shutting up the critics. Good job on both counts.

Likewise, Gracie put up a monster score... probably a PB... but not much of a reaction. She knew she had lost the title.
 
The score is a joke. So far US is beating Russia with their inflated marks(not on the Italia level though with C/L scores:rolleye:)
Happy for Ashley though after last year's 4th place, she is a fighter.

Yep, Italy wins gold for inflation with USA in second - dang so close to that top spot on the podium LOL. AShley is ranked no. 1 in the world for pcs and has the maturity (which sadly tells you the state of ladies or girl's skating as it may be. She is no Yuna, Carolina, Kwan or Rochette. Her programs are a bit empty and contrived as well. However, with the highest pcs y ou can go far ie. Hanyu, Chan and most notably Kostner. Ashley or Gracie for that matter could be on that world podium - the odds are one of the Russians will falter and the Americans can clearly beat the Japanese who in some ways appear right now a bit blah though with some hope.
 
What Mrs. P said. I don't understand how something from over a year ago at an international event can be said to make a case that Wagner doesn't 'get' Nationals inflation. In addition I stand by my comment that memes, while often funny, are essentially useless as indicators of anything.

I did not make such an argument.
 
One thing to remember is PCS is always scored on a relative basis. The field of competition is a big factor. The judges are not thinking "how is Ashley doing in this area relative to past skaters at this competition?" So it makes sense that Ashley would score 75 runs points when the field includes lower-ranking/skilled skaters.

I know ISU provide personal best components in the bios, but I don't think ISU judges say or think, "Ashley sucks compared to these past champions so I should dock her scores."
 
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Yep, Italy wins gold for inflation with USA in second - dang so close to that top spot on the podium LOL. AShley is ranked no. 1 in the world for pcs and has the maturity (which sadly tells you the state of ladies or girl's skating as it may be. She is no Yuna, Carolina, Kwan or Rochette. Her programs are a bit empty and contrived as well. However, with the highest pcs y ou can go far ie. Hanyu, Chan and most notably Kostner. Ashley or Gracie for that matter could be on that world podium - the odds are one of the Russians will falter and the Americans can clearly beat the Japanese who in some ways appear right now a bit blah though with some hope.

I am pretty sure we won't have all Russian podium this year. So yes, one of the Americans is more likely than any of the Japanese.
 
I did not make such an argument.

I said: Just like us, they get that they would not receive these scores internationally and that Nationals inflation exists..
You said: I hope so, but the internet memes with her KandC reactions so far have proven otherwise.

You then said you were talking about the meme/K&K from Olys. So I do have to point out it does actually look like you were arguing that that meme/competition 'proved' that Ashley did not understand Nationals inflation.

I don't really care to keep going back and forth so this will be my last post about this, but if you'd like to keep discussing via PM feel free to PM me :)
 
Can you really argue she deserves more than an 8 for SS or more on any of the other components actually. These are very good components, there's no way she should be in the 9s for anything, and her transitions are definitely 7 level. Honestly I'd have given her a 7.00 for choreography.

In a competition that Karen Chen got 64 for PCS, there is nothing wrong with Ashley's PCS. With a skate like that on international stage, Ashley's score would be something between 136-142.
It was not only Ashley who earned big scores, everybody earned.
 
Akiko Suzuki got like 144 points when she won Japanese nationals. She didn't do a 3-3, just a 2a-3t. i don't think a country has a hold on inflation, it varies from year to year. Last year Gracie did far more-3-3 and 2a-3t and "only "got 139.

I still was happy Akiko got the win and I shed tears of joy after watching that program. Again another example of someone who persevered though so much.
 
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She lost to Russian skaters her age on the junior grand prix. And she is underrotating jumps already at age 15. She is not the whole package, a label that has been applied far too liberally to skaters in the past, to their detriment. People used to say Nagasu and Zhang were the whole package...

Before we crown Chen a future Olympic champion, we might want to wait until she goes thru puberty.
 
Without having read the whole thread, I sense that the discussion of ego and swagger has focused mostly or entirely on Wagner??

I'm surprised/confused that Gold's own ego and swagger do not receive equal scrutiny.
Gold is just as naked in her ambition, and just as open with her self-back-patting.

That said, I don't mind either lady -- or any athlete -- talking a good game.
Just don't understand the contrast in how the two ladies seem to be perceived.
 
Wow, had no idea Wagner was planning to do 4CC as well. I think she needs to be careful about pacing herself, particularly at her age. OTOH, it's a great idea for Gold to go, given that she missed the GPF.

But if Wagner does go to 4CC, she does get to test her FS in front of an international panel and see how they call it. From there, she can strategize for Worlds (leave the 3Z in there and chance it? Or go back to 3F?)
 
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