2016-17 GPF Pairs SP

[ancientpeas]

C'mon ancientpeas, there are folks who blow it out of your driveway that aren't too expensive. But since the big snow up to the roofline winter in 2008, it's almost impossible to get anyone to take care of the walkways and steps.

And it least one of our kids is missing the snow by the second week of May....and so it's no wonder they spend our short summer inside skating....

We don't hire people. That's lazy. I shovel it. And we have a long driveway. I actually don't mind it if it comes in small amounts at a time. I hate big dumps of snow. I'm on a main road too so the bottom is pretty terrible. The last big snowfall we had snow up to the thigh in a huge, heavy pile at the bottom of the driveway. We shoveled it and the plows came through and dumped it all back in the driveway. *bitter* We need a bitter emoji

 

[Osmond4gold]

C'mon ancientpeas, there are folks who blow it out of your driveway that aren't too expensive. But since the big snow up to the roofline winter in 2008, it's almost impossible to get anyone to take care of the walkways and steps.

And it least one of our kids is missing the snow by the second week of May....and so it's no wonder they spend our short summer inside skating....

TGee, I have one born under the same moon. Gets giddy in September, and asks continually after October 1st, if it's going to snow tomorrow. Cold blooded he is, takes after an in-law on his mom's side.

 

[NanaPat]

Similar for me. Even if people like them as a pair, the fact that Yu was forced to switch partners against her will still really makes me sad for her.

Maybe you can understand it better if you think of the skaters as employees of the skating federation. Employees don't get to choose their co-workers. It's still sad, but you can see how it fits in the Chinese system.

David Wilson talked about it in his recent interview. He says that Yu was unhappy about the switch but he told her that she doesn't have any choice, since the federation pays for everything.

 

[cathlen]

so in light of protocols : P/J lost quite a lot of levels... D/R are level 4 everywhere. So blame the tech panel now

And actually the tech panel gave Meagan a carrot...

I said before, P/J has higher TES than D/R, and of course BV was higher for D/R so only difference in GOE, we all knew that. Nohting to blame panel for, D/R had better spins, and so rightfully higher level and score. Same with DS, I could argue about GOE on StSq, but let give it to D/R. Still, have you seen German judge giving 9.50 in SS, 9.50 in TR, 9.75 (!) in PE and 9.25 for last two notes for D/R? And the same time gave P/J 7.75 for SS, in TR and IN, 8.25 in PE and 8.00 in CO. If you don't think it's ridiculous for these performances, then I see no sense in talking, because you just see what you want to see...

 

[SarahSynchro]

Weren't you the one calling me out on offering to make exchange on par for mrice?

Ummmm.... I'll give you my lawyers phone number.

 

[LadyB]

Well, I didn't see that coming. Everything to play for. Pairs turned out to be a lot more interesting than I'd have hoped for. Great! I'm quite happy with T/M on top at the mo, but it all depends whether they can improve on their FS. I know that many of you hate the programme. I like the song and I like the programme. The only thing is, they haven't displayed enough passion so far to make the whole thing work. Maybe tomorrow... D/R are definitely professional enough to come up with something great tomorrow. I can't wait

 

[friedbanana]

Haven't watched/caught up with the pairs yet, but omg...Duhamel/Radford aren't first. Must have been an interesting competition!

 

[bobbob]

T/M are the surprise of the year in pairs for me. Great skate, huge elements. Their skating is actually quite similar to Y/Z, but they need to get more consistent for free.

Peng and Jin were pretty underscored, I would have them at around 73-74. Again the Chinese federation isn't behind them and would rank W/W higher if they had a choice, but their time will come.

Duhamel and Radford should not have broken 70, but at least the scoring is an improvement from last year, where they skated a similarly terrible program with a fall and stumble yet received practically the same score as a clean S/K and K/S. Right after T/M their lack of grace, skating skills, lines, and refinement were obvious. Peng and Jin may be new, but they exhibit more fun, emotion, performance, and skating skills than D/R. Other than "being world champions", there is no aspect of D/R's skating itself that warrants a higher PCS than P/J, especially if the Chinese are clean.

 

[nevergonnadance]

Not a D/R fan by a long shot but IMO this is the best Megan has ever looked on the ice. That bodysuit, make-up, ponytail look fantastic on her, harmonizes well with Eric and somehow makes their lines and sizes match better. Megan also appears to have become a stronger skater this season. She no longer looks deer-in-the-headlights between the elements (as much). That used to annoy me so much. She would blatantly be either thinking about or prepping for the next element, and not really bothering to skate much, while the choreography had Eric swooping around. Much better this year. Don't get me wrong, she still completely checked out of her skating before the throw, and I think the TES was way too high considering she never got close to landing it - straight to her butt.

ETA - think I know why the bodysuits work. First, they both look great in black. Second, Megan has a very strong build across the shoulders and a much longer torso than legs. Almost every regular skating dress makes her look out of proportion with ridiculously short legs, because the skirt cuts off her legs. The body suit doesn't cut her off and she looks far more proportionate. The top of the bodysuit also streamlines her entire look.

 

[icekiwi]

One of the BESP British guys said this about Yu, " I could watch her all day". That is enough for me.

And yes, 75+ points and in 2nd, YES!!

And yes, Peng/Jin underscored today, should be around 72, just a point and a bit above D/R.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Thrilled for T/M :hap57:

I pray Skate America was the jittery learning experience and are now better equipped mentally to handle the pressure of being the leaders after the SP! They really do have the goods to be OGM

 

[skatemouse]

honestly the hate for Zhang is bothering me so much. He obeyed orders from his fed and did the switch like the 3 others. He just had the bad idea to be quite happy about it so he deserves hate??

It as clear and widely known behind circles that it was actually Zhang that wanted it to begin with and even demanded it.

 

[4everchan]

cathlen, i respect your opinion but at the same time, we are fans, not in the arena and there are a lot of things we cannot assess from online streaming... so my philosophy when looking at scores is to figure out what we can easily understand : levels, goe bullets, BV.... when it comes to PCS, it gets more subjective and Meagan and Eric are two times world champion and have been seen a lot by the judges, and not only that, they have improved every year... it wasn't a flat skate today... it was a skate with mistakes yes, but not tentative like their LP was at NHK... compare this to the new teams that have perhaps never even been seen live by these judges and who are doing, fun for P/J and quite generic for Y/Z (but damn he makes her shine) programs, i can see why they are marked lower and especially in skating skills... I don't buy the Peng is suddenly queen sass... she's fun. She still skates younger than someone like Meagan or Aliona. The impression they leave is not as strong. However, we fans, have taken sides because of the whole switcharoo ordeal and we grew fond of both new pairs really quickly.... In the men, some say that skating skills will be lower if you don't attempt quads... or in the ladies, if you don't attempt a 3-3 combo... these teams, as promising as they are, with their gorgeous twist and throws are using easier material all over the place, with lower levels, lower BV, and lower complexity in the choreography. On top of that, they are struggling wiht unison in the SBS jumps, the SBS pairs and the Steps...

So, don't hear me wrong. I really like both of these teams and I am amazed to see how quickly they seem to have gelled but the level of detail and refinement isn't there yet. THe fact that they are scoring so well already is huge and promising.

And you are correct, I am not interested in judges witch hunt... as i said earlier, I have decided to let them be... it saves me from the wuzrobbed posts or the very aggressive and bitter posts we see in these threads.

YMMV

I said before, P/J has higher TES than D/R, and of course BV was higher for D/R so only difference in GOE, we all knew that. Nohting to blame panel for, D/R had better spins, and so rightfully higher level and score. Same with DS, I could argue about GOE on StSq, but let give it to D/R. Still, have you seen German judge giving 9.50 in SS, 9.50 in TR, 9.75 (!) in PE and 9.25 for last two notes for D/R? And the same time gave P/J 7.75 for SS, in TR and IN, 8.25 in PE and 8.00 in CO. If you don't think it's ridiculous for these performances, then I see no sense in talking, because you just see what you want to see...

 

[yqs100]

It as clear and widely known behind circles that it was actually Zhang that wanted it to begin with and even demanded it.

If you can't prove it, stop the nonsense! Just enjoy the game!

 

[Ilvskating]

I'm so happy for the two Chinese teams! They skated clean and that's what matter to me. Scores are just scores. Happy for T/M too. I think this is the first time I see them having fun with a program although it was like too much fun, a bit high) and it would be too much to say hot mess, but that's kind of the feeling it left, should be better by World, and I think the judges were paying forward for them. The elements are very good, they skated very well, but not 78 well. Honestly I didn't get my stream until S/B, and I thought T/M might have done a 3Ath or something, using a secret weapon somehow

Just wish all skaters have a good LP, and better judging, especially relatively fair marks to everybody's skating; it doesn't matter how high or low marks one team get, as long as it makes sense when putting all teams' scores together I would be happy.

 

[bobbob]

... compare this to the new teams that have perhaps never even been seen live by these judges and who are doing, fun for P/J and quite generic for Y/Z (but damn he makes her shine) programs, i can see why they are marked lower and especially in skating skills... I don't buy the Peng is suddenly queen sass... she's fun. She still skates younger than someone like Meagan or Aliona. The impression they leave is not as strong. However, we fans, have taken sides because of the whole switcharoo ordeal and we grew fond of both new pairs really quickly.... In the men, some say that skating skills will be lower if you don't attempt quads... or in the ladies, if you don't attempt a 3-3 combo... these teams, as promising as they are, with their gorgeous twist and throws are using easier material all over the place, with lower levels, lower BV, and lower complexity in the choreography. On top of that, they are struggling wiht unison in the SBS jumps, the SBS pairs and the Steps...

Sorry to interject, but essentially your argument is that they are new, so they don't deserve higher scores. Well doesn't matter how new they are, if they skate better they deserve higher scores. And no the Chinese teams don't have easier material...their SBS jump was in much better unison than D/R's messy lutz, better twist, far better throw (fall from d/r), harder lift position, ok D/R had better SBS spins... Their lower levels is what we are unhappy about, not a function of their skating skills. What complex choreography do Meagan and eric have? Also, pairs is fundamentally different from single skating, it is more about grace/unison/etc. than jumping ability. Meagan and Eric generally have good unison but lack grace and connection, regardless of number of years together.

And sorry, Meagan is no Aliona. Aliona could probably get a world medal with any male skater. Eric skates with great maturity, though.

 

[yqs100]

I agree. P/J is a bit underscored. I would put them in 3rd over D/R.

I think it's time for D/R to rethink the strategy, I would prefer they polish their program and posture rather than pushing the tech limit. You know you are not a young pair, it's more important to do the things nicely in this level.

It looks like it will be hard for them to be in the last group in worlds with the comeback of SM SK and SH......

 

[4everchan]

Sorry to interject, but essentially your argument is that they are new, so they don't deserve higher scores. Well doesn't matter how new they are, if they skate better they deserve higher scores. And no the Chinese teams don't have easier material...their SBS jump was in much better unison than D/R's messy lutz, better twist, far better throw (fall from d/r), harder lift position, ok D/R had better SBS spins... Their lower levels is what we are unhappy about, not a function of their skating skills. What complex choreography do Meagan and eric have? Also, pairs is fundamentally different from single skating, it is more about grace/unison/etc. than jumping ability. Meagan and Eric generally have good unison but lack grace and connection, regardless of number of years together.

And sorry, Meagan is no Aliona. Aliona could probably get a world medal with any male skater. Eric skates with great maturity, though.

perhaps, if you feel like interjecting, you should read both posts thoroughly and follow the conversation.

I am replying to cathlen who is upset about PCS scores.

I am proposing why some of these can be lower. These teams appear great but they are not as polished as skaters who have been together for a decade... you cannot cheat time.

Difficulty ? Are you kidding me. Sure Meagan and Eric messed up their throw but it's a damn 3A throw.... so do not play silly and saying that a 3loop throw that pair skaters had in their repertoire 20 years ago is the same thing...
3lz?? how many teams land these regularly? versus 3T and sorry but the unisons of Y and Z wasn't great on the take off with Hao's messy entrance in it.... and here, I would need to watch it again but P/J usually jump quite far from one another. It's called SBS for a reason.

Where both chinese pairs really shine is on the twist. Great twists. They got rewarded for that. Cathlen was screaming about PCS which you don't really address in your post. By definition pair skating is not necessarily about grace. I haven't read that anywhere. Unison, sure. Meagan and Eric are shining in this department more and more. If anything you are validating my points because as much as like both new chinese teams, and actually, from the beginning when many were complaining about the evil federation, i said it was actually probably a good fit, they are NEW and have to improve in unison.... not only in rhytmic unison but in line, and in intention. Maybe you see both new teams as skating as one, well I certainly don't. What I see is two new teams with a couple great elements but in between, I see teams that are learning to be teams. Are they fast learners? Better and faster than anyone expected. Are they 9 PCS materials yet. IMHO =NO.

If you think Aliona can get a world medal with any male skaters, I would have a few names to suggest to her... and trust me, she would refuse to be lifted by these guys

 

[bobbob]

perhaps, if you feel like interjecting, you should read both posts thoroughly and follow the conversation.

I am replying to cathlen who is upset about PCS scores.

I am proposing why some of these can be lower. These teams appear great but they are not as polished as skaters who have been together for a decade... you cannot cheat time.

Difficulty ? Are you kidding me. Sure Meagan and Eric messed up their throw but it's a damn 3A throw.... so do not play silly and saying that a 3loop throw that pair skaters had in their repertoire 20 years ago is the same thing...
3lz?? how many teams land these regularly? versus 3T and sorry but the unions of Y and Z wasn't great on the take off with Hao's messy entrance in it.... and here, I would need to watch it again but P/J usually jump quite far from one another. It's called SBS for a reason.

Where both chinese pairs really shine is on the twist. Great twists. They got rewarded for that. Cathlen was screaming about PCS which you don't really address in your post. By definition pair skating is not necessarily about grace. I haven't read that anywhere. Unison, sure. Meagan and Eric are shining in this department more and more. If anything you are validating my points because as much as like both new chinese teams, and actually, from the beginning when many were complaining about the evil federation, i said it was actually probably a good fit, they are NEW and have to improve in unison.... not only in rhytmic unison but in line, and in intention. Maybe you see both new teams as skating as one, well I certainly don't. What I see is two new teams with a couple great elements but in between, I see teams that are learning to be teams. Are they fast learners? Better and faster than anyone expected. Are they 9 PCS materials yet. IMHO =NO.

If you think Aliona can get a world medal with any male skaters, I would have a few names to suggest to her... and trust me, she would refuse to be lifted by these guys

No the Chinese pairs are not 9 PCS material right now, but Meagan and Eric aren't either, so I am unhappy about the Germans' assessment. Meagan and Eric have good skating skills as individual skaters performing in unison but not as a pair performing together. They are actually the exact opposite of skating as one. In terms of lines, refinement, unity (not unison big difference), and flow, I would say were the worst in the field today (other than S/B). The Chinese teams (Yu and Zhang in particular) and Russians are far more polished. No you cannot cheat time, but time doesn't necessarily mean success either.

As for today's performance, a 3LoTh with great height and clean landing is harder to do than falling on a under-rotated 3ATh. A well executed SBS triple toe (I don't see the messy parts you're referring to) has better unison than a barely rotated SBS triple lutz in which one person puts hands down. Twist and lift, better too. This applies for the Russians and both Chinese in comparison to D/R. Again talking about today not in general.

 

[Violet Bliss]

It as clear and widely known behind circles that it was actually Zhang that wanted it to begin with and even demanded it.

So it's basically hearsay by gossip mongers and willing believers.

Coach Zhao said it was he who thought about it for 6 months before implementing it, feeling the necessity to charge up the Chinese Pairs program.