2016 Junior Worlds Mens Free Skate

[silverfoxes]

Deniss V actually gets high PCS probably mainly because he has exceptional natural talent musically and expressively, plus he possesses a lovely movement quality. Deniss is a rare showman at a young age. Fingers-crossed that Deniss works out strengthening and increasing the difficulty of his technique. :luv17:

Oh, for sure. But gmyers seems to think PCS is all about "location, location, location."

 

[el henry]

Only had time to see the top men's FS, but I want to throw some love Nicolas Nadeau's way. Anyone whose showmanship and verve can overcome those godawful music cuts has my appreciation. I enjoyed his skating the most.

I say this even though Tomoki (what is he, 70 pounds soaking wet?) was throughly engaging as well. Also, hats off to Tomoki for spinning as well as he jumped, which I can't say for Nicolas or Daniel. And also keeping my attention even though if I never see another Chaplin program in my entire life, I will consider it a life well lived.

Daniel: well, he's getting enough love

Congrats to the medalists!:clapper:

 

[MaxSwagg]

That was pathetic! Woooooooow. Dmitry completely bombed this championships! With Nathan and Sota out, it was his to win or lose...and he lost it spectacularly. Such a shame.

LOVED Tomoki's FS though. Great choreography, though could use a little more expression.

 

[gmyers]

LOL. Let's ask Alexei Bychenko if training in the US and skating for Israel has helped his PCS. Or how about the Ukrainian, Taiwanese or Georgian guys who train in the US - look how well they placed here. I think having the backing of a strong federation is clearly more beneficial than coming from any small fed. Btw, Deniss Vasiljevs is Latvian, trains in Russia & gets very high PCS. There is simply no rhyme or reason to your crackpot theories.

The backing of a strong federation should be able to mean money to fund the best choreographers and coaches for high and actually the highest pcs. The Russians here got lower pcs than the leaders. Why are all the world medalists training in North America? Coincidence? Russia is not realizing its ruining all its men. Did bychenko not just beat kovtun? The reputation of Russian men is just at the bottom of its history. Deniss is not russian no one cares in Russia how he skates. But when they do its a mess and ruinous because their ideas are all wrong now.

 

[Art&Sport]

Oh, for sure. But gmyers seems to think PCS is all about "location, location, location."

PCS often tend to be manipulated, and there is undeniably a political factor always present in the scoring. However, it does often make an important difference when skaters can fully live up to their talent and simply focus on the moment rather than becoming overly distracted about judges' scores and placements. Deniss' natural talent and precocious abilities are rather rare and special.

Federation strength and backing are also important factors. I'm not so sure Daniel would have been scored so low in the sp if he was represented by a more powerful federation. I was surprised at his sp scores in fact, since Daniel had a strong fall season, and a fairly successful quad reputation. Although I do think Daniel needs to improve his presentation skills and transitions.

Rather interesting that U.S. junior Andrew Torgashev's parents are also Russian. Andrew is still very young, and so he has more time remaining to shine on the junior circuit after being injured this season and missing-in-action.

 

[gmyers]

Well, the wording of your previous comment seemed to imply that Daniel is Russian, which he simply isn't. And his achievement as the first Israeli skater to win JW should be taken as such. What his roots are is kinda irrelevant.

He's Israeli of Russian heritage. Nothing wrong with including peoples background in discussing them. Like Irish or Italian Americans.

 

[Interspectator]

I'm wondering why a coaching system that is working quite well for the ladies of Russia is not working for the men?

Russian ladies have adequate to excellent PCS qualities and pretty good programs on the whole.

I think it's more a matter of being able to perform consistently under pressure that the Russian men lack right now.

 

[Art&Sport]

^^ Who knows? Lots of pressure involved apparently, as it's almost like a Russian assembly-line with the ladies, and now more talented Russian men are beginning to come back to the fore. I think both Aliev and Samarin are very strong technically but despite both being fair to middling presentation-wise, they are not overall the most well-rounded among the men's field. There are other guys with more sublime skills artistically, which means one can not always rest on technical laurels.

He's Israeli of Russian heritage. Nothing wrong with including peoples background in discussing them. Like Irish or Italian Americans.

Exactly. Many skaters are not necessarily born and raised in the countries they represent. And in addition many people/ athletes come from mixed heritage backgrounds.

 

[Perdita]

But there really is no one who is consistent in the mens field right now, senior or junior. You cannot say Dima or Samarin are more inconsistent than Samohin really... and the fact that Dima and Samarin are incorporating both 3Lz and 3F into LP without getting e or ! just shows how much Russian coaching has improved in the past years (the top Russian ladies competing now are the ones risen up after Russia's financial crisis in 90s and it's no wonder it's taking more time for men). If you take a brief look at all the PCS from JGPS and JGPF, all of the top junior boys have ups and downs (except for Nathan) and Dima is always in the top mix and Samarin's PCS isn't that weak either.

 

[gmyers]

But there really is no one who is consistent in the mens field right now, senior or junior. You cannot say Dima or Samarin are more inconsistent than Samohin really... and the fact that Dima and Samarin are incorporating both 3Lz and 3F into LP without getting e or ! just shows how much Russian coaching has improved in the past years (the top Russian ladies competing now are the ones risen up after Russia's financial crisis in 90s and it's no wonder it's taking more time for men). If you take a brief look at all the PCS from JGPS and JGPF, all of the top junior boys have ups and downs (except for Nathan) and Dima is always in the top mix and Samarin's PCS isn't that weak either.

The thing is Russian men have a history of excellence. So why isn't it coming together for them anymore. Why couldn't a Russian man have been a samohin or one of the other medalists. Why is it two years in a row russian men can't do free skates? That's a bigger issue too. Inability to do free skates at major events with pressure. Its very difficult to be consigned now but there's something going on where russian men can't compete. Look at pitkeev and how he performed in his free skate too at COR.

 

[dorispulaski]

He's Israeli of Russian heritage. Nothing wrong with including peoples background in discussing them. Like Irish or Italian Americans.

Not to mention, his older brother Stanislav used to skate for Russia and was coached by Eteri.
http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00013145.htm

http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00034509.htm

AFAIR, Daniel's parents were coaching in Tel Aviv, Israel, and Daniel was born there.

Stanislav was born in Moscow, Russia.

There are all in the US now at Lake Arrowhead.

 

[Sorrento]

I'm wondering why a coaching system that is working quite well for the ladies of Russia is not working for the men?

Russian ladies have adequate to excellent PCS qualities and pretty good programs on the whole.

I think it's more a matter of being able to perform consistently under pressure that the Russian men lack right now.

It does not depend on gender, it depends on people, every single athlete. Also it does depend on those who work with them on the way they express themselves, most guys prefer to skate Plushenko style, they don't really like to be balletic. Perhaps it would sound strange but its the reality. And when you see someone like Kolyada- trust me- most Russians feel lucky to have him representing the country on ice. Because guys like him are quite rare find.

 

[Sorrento]

I don't get it. Why is it important to switch him to Japan? He's an American citizen and the last time I check the US is in great need of good male skaters.

It's not important. It was just an idea.

 

[Sorrento]

Tomoki is the Mirai of male US skaters.

Maybe you're right.

 

[plushyfan]

It does not depend on gender, it depends on people, every single athlete. Also it does depend on those who work with them on the way they express themselves, most guys prefer to skate Plushenko style, they don't really like to be balletic. Perhaps it would sound strange but its the reality. And when you see someone like Kolyada- trust me- most Russians feel lucky to have him representing the country on ice. Because guys like him are quite rare find.

It's funny. Some Plushenko's programs were made by famous Russian ballet choreographers, dancers. And he skated those programs in balletic style.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...Russian-Men-s-Figure-Skating-2015-2016/page17 read my #248 post. I recommend you to rewatch some Plushenko's program.

 

[Perdita]

The thing is Russian men have a history of excellence. So why isn't it coming together for them anymore. Why couldn't a Russian man have been a samohin or one of the other medalists. Why is it two years in a row russian men can't do free skates? That's a bigger issue too. Inability to do free skates at major events with pressure. Its very difficult to be consigned now but there's something going on where russian men can't compete. Look at pitkeev and how he performed in his free skate too at COR.

Look at Samohin and how he performed at Euros.
Look at Deniss and how he performed at JW.
Look at Shoma and how he performed at 4CC.
Look at Yuzu and how he performed at the Nats.
I mean, look at Yuzu and Patrick and how they performed at Sochi.
Then, look at Nathan, Dima, Sota, Samohin, Vince and Roman and how they performed at JGPF.

I'm not very familiar with hiphop but will this make a good rap??
Because this is all I can offer to a defeatist like you.

 

[Interspectator]

Look at Samohin and how he performed at Euros.
Look at Deniss and how he performed at JW.
Look at Shoma and how he performed at 4CC.
Look at Yuzu and how he performed at the Nats.
I mean, look at Yuzu and Patrick and how they performed at Sochi.
Then, look at Nathan, Dima, Sota, Samohin, Vince and Roman and how they performed at JGPF.

I'm not very familiar with hiphop but will this make a good rap??
Because this is all I can offer to some defeatists like you.

I don't think the Russian men are doing badly, but they aren't reaching the potential they each have.
It could be a matter of time, or some other mitigating circumstance, but Russia has got some well-rounded and technically proficient skaters in their ranks with quads and interesting programs, that just aren't putting it together when it counts.

Saying it's ok to be inconsistent because all the guys are inconsistent isn't what any athlete aims for.

 

[Sorrento]

It's funny. Some Plushenko's programs were made by famous Russian ballet choreographers, dancers. And he skated those programs in balletic style.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...Russian-Men-s-Figure-Skating-2015-2016/page17 read my #248 post. I recommend you to rewatch some Plushenko's program.

I am one his old fans so there is no need to recommend me go and rewatch anything from him really. He is not balletic no matter who did choreo for him. I can tell the difference between him and Lambiel, Aaron and Machida. It's obvious.

 

[Sugarpova]

good thing I wasnt able to watch this live otherwise I may have tore my hair well I hope Alisa comes & tears hair of her bf!

I'm going to kill him.

well its already 3 ppl who will do that with me, u & Alisa!

Congrats Dani!!!!!! at least u didnt disappoint!

It's funny. Some Plushenko's programs were made by famous Russian ballet choreographers, dancers. And he skated those programs in balletic style.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...Russian-Men-s-Figure-Skating-2015-2016/page17 read my #248 post. I recommend you to rewatch some Plushenko's program.

nah dont even bother trying to change someone's mind on that topic
He's a jumper & thats all. we have to deal with the majority.
Same as I have to deal that people thing that Chan is an artist.

 

[Perdita]

I don't think the Russian men are doing badly, but they aren't reaching the potential they each have.
It could be a matter of time, or some other mitigating circumstance, but Russia has got some well-rounded and technically proficient skaters in their ranks with quads and interesting programs, that just aren't putting it together when it counts.

Saying it's ok to be inconsistent because all the guys are inconsistent isn't what any athlete aims for.

I'm not saying that it's okay to be inconsistent, my point was that generalizing 'Russian men' doesn't mean a lot. IIRC, Pitkeev was injured at JW last season, Petrov was ill there, Samarin placing 4th here is a major improvement from the 11th last season, and Dima placing 6th at his first JW is nothing bad to my standard. Meanwhile, Deniss also had a disappointing FS compared to what he showed in other events this season. These situations are hardly be generalized as 'Russian men are...'.

BTW, the above comment was specifically directed to gmyers who have already made so many pessimistic comments about Russian men, not to you at all. I do respect your comments.