2016 Junior Worlds Mens Free Skate

[gmyers]

I'm not saying that it's okay to be inconsistent, my point was that generalizing 'Russian men' doesn't mean a lot. IIRC, Pitkeev was injured at JW last season, Petrov was ill there, Samarin placing 4th here is a major improvement from the 11th last season, and Dima placing 6th at his first JW is nothing bad to my standard. Meanwhile, Deniss also had a disappointing FS compared to what he showed in other events this season. These situations are hardly be generalized as 'Russian men are...'.

BTW, the above comment was specifically directed to gmyers who have already made so many pessimistic comments about Russian men, not to you at all. I do respect your comments.

Its not pessimistic if you try to offer solutions to real problems. If so much of the problems are just based on injury and illness then maybe a solution is to better find ways of avoiding those things. I know they all so that now but then that needs reform. Samarin's place improved but he went from a winning position to no medal and that's not good.

I don't think the Russian men are doing badly, but they aren't reaching the potential they each have.
It could be a matter of time, or some other mitigating circumstance, but Russia has got some well-rounded and technically proficient skaters in their ranks with quads and interesting programs, that just aren't putting it together when it counts.

Saying it's ok to be inconsistent because all the guys are inconsistent isn't what any athlete aims for.

I agree with this. It gets right to the point.

Look at Samohin and how he performed at Euros.
Look at Deniss and how he performed at JW.
Look at Shoma and how he performed at 4CC.
Look at Yuzu and how he performed at the Nats.
I mean, look at Yuzu and Patrick and how they performed at Sochi.
Then, look at Nathan, Dima, Sota, Samohin, Vince and Roman and how they performed at JGPF.

I'm not very familiar with hiphop but will this make a good rap??
Because this is all I can offer to a defeatist like you.

I know skaters can be inconsistent. This is the second year in a row two russian men in the top 3 after the sp didnt end up medaling. 3rd time in 4 years with no medal. I would like to know what's going on that's causing this. What can be done to change it. The talent is there. Something isn't working.

It does not depend on gender, it depends on people, every single athlete. Also it does depend on those who work with them on the way they express themselves, most guys prefer to skate Plushenko style, they don't really like to be balletic. Perhaps it would sound strange but its the reality. And when you see someone like Kolyada- trust me- most Russians feel lucky to have him representing the country on ice. Because guys like him are quite rare find.

Most of the men aren't skating how plushenko usually skated. They seem to have chosen plushenko in Turin but without the jumps mostly being there.

 

[Mrs. P]

So check out this photo gallery from 2013 U.S. Nationals Novice division -- it features two of our medalists!
http://web.icenetwork.com/photos/41075064

 

[deedee1]

Well done again, Japanese boys!; Daichi moved up one in the standing , Kazuki up 5 places! , and Shu kept his standing from SP. :agree: A bonus is securing 2 spots for next year.

but tell the truth, I stopped following online results right before Shu, due to nervousness and stress, switched to APT Tennis semi final Rafa Nadal-Kei Nishikori on TV, and went back to check the final results afterwards.

 

[deedee1]

ETA to Samohin's TES! and winning the title from 9th place SP! Congrats to him! :hap85::hap85:

 

[Chemistry66]

ETA to Samohin's TES! and winning the title from 9th place SP! Congrats to him! :hap85::hap85:

Yeah, it was a weird event. Combination of some of the top 10 skaters doing well in the FS and the top 3 having definite issues.

 

[Sorrento]

Most of the men aren't skating how plushenko usually skated. They seem to have chosen plushenko in Turin but without the jumps mostly being there.

But they can't be him, right? He is one of the most gifted athletes of all times and yet his main talent was jumps and that is what he will be remembered mostly for. His presentation skills are really good but he lacks in balletic department as well as most of Russian skaters who don't really like to look like they like to dance even if it is not ballet. That is my point, they fear to look less manly if you get what I mean. To me those who don't really care about this usually perform much better, they are fun to watch, they have great lines etc etc.

 

[plushyfan]

I am one his old fans so there is no need to recommend me go and rewatch anything from him really. He is not balletic no matter who did choreo for him. I can tell the difference between him and Lambiel, Aaron and Machida. It's obvious.

Yes, I can see the difference, of course. I didn't say his every program and skaing is balletic or his style is balletic. But he has balletic programs, he can do it if he wants. And he can do it on the floor, too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELud8GUfpdQ

-------------------------------

We took many pictures after all competitions I will upload them!

 

[dorispulaski]

It may be that Russian guys and US girls have the same problem:
the weight of the shadow and legacy of a hugely talented and consistent retired champion is too heavy and nerve-wracking.

I.e. Plushenko (RUS) and Kwan (USA)

Some journalist or commentator proclaiming they are the next Plushenko or next Kwan, and the debilitating fear of not measuring up.

 

[gmyers]

But they can't be him, right? He is one of the most gifted athletes of all times and yet his main talent was jumps and that is what he will be remembered mostly for. His presentation skills are really good but he lacks in balletic department as well as most of Russian skaters who don't really like to look like they like to dance even if it is not ballet. That is my point, they fear to look less manly if you get what I mean. To me those who don't really care about this usually perform much better, they are fun to watch, they have great lines etc etc.

I don't think what you describe here is really the problem. Even if you don't think plushenkos tribute to a ballet star was balletic obviously there was no problem with acknowledging ballet and famous stars and moves. I think the issue really is IJS and not going for what works in getting the highest marks.

It may be that Russian guys and US girls have the same problem:
the weight of the shadow and legacy of a hugely talented and consistent retired champion is too heavy and nerve-wracking.

I.e. Plushenko (RUS) and Kwan (USA)

Some journalist or commentator proclaiming they are the next Plushenko or next Kwan, and the debilitating fear of not measuring up.

This is a big problem too. You know it caused major problems with gachinski for fact. Before him there was others like Borodulin or Grigoriev. Where do all these people go? Its a pressure cooker or meat grinder!

 

[Osmond4gold]

Wow, this is one unique storybook! Tomoki, being the replacement for Nathan Chen, who was supposed to have it be his year to win Jr. Worlds, goes in, no one knowing how he'll do, and he comes in and gets bronze!

Nicolas didn't even make the FP last year was the only man from Canada to compete and he ends up with silver and maybe bringing the spots for Canada from 1 to 3 all by himself.

And Daniel Samohin, who got 9th in the SP, skated a monterously awesome FP with 3 quads and got a new personal best. And he won gold and became the first Israeli to win Jr. Worlds!

What a storybook!

So proud of Nicolas Nadeau...what a skate and the best 3A around. Can you imagine what team Canada will look in a few with Chan, Nguyen and Nadeau! Wow!!!

 

[silverfoxes]

It may be that Russian guys and US girls have the same problem:
the weight of the shadow and legacy of a hugely talented and consistent retired champion is too heavy and nerve-wracking.

I.e. Plushenko (RUS) and Kwan (USA)

Some journalist or commentator proclaiming they are the next Plushenko or next Kwan, and the debilitating fear of not measuring up.

But according to gmyers, North American coaches are the greatest so I wonder what his(?) excuse is for the girls doing so poorly every year. At least the Russian men kept 3 spots. And for all the hype about Japan's "deep field," they didn't even have one skater in the top 10. Yeah, Sota would've made it, but nobody chooses to get sick or injured and the Russian guys last year fought as well as they could. Bad luck and timing happen to people all the time in this sport.

The Russian men are doing just fine, as far as I can see. Samarin was less than half a point from bronze. They collectively scored higher than the 2nd and 4th place finishers from 2014 - it's just that the bar has been set higher each year with guys doing multiple quads. I think being 1st after the SP was a lot of pressure for Dmitri at his first JW and dealing with that is something everyone has to learn through experience. Plushenko was 6th at his first JW, too, by the way. Daniel was 12th at his first one.

 

[gmyers]

But according to gmyers, North American coaches are the greatest so I wonder what his(?) excuse is for the girls doing so poorly every year. At least the Russian men kept 3 spots. And for all the hype about Japan's "deep field," they didn't even have one skater in the top 10. Yeah, Sota would've made it, but nobody chooses to get sick or injured and the Russian guys last year fought as well as they could. Bad luck and timing happen to people all the time in this sport.

The Russian men are doing just fine, as far as I can see. Samarin was less than half a point from bronze. They collectively scored higher than the 2nd and 4th place finishers from 2014 - it's just that the bar has been set higher each year with guys doing multiple quads. I think being 1st after the SP was a lot of pressure for Dmitri at his first JW and dealing with that is something everyone has to learn through experience. Plushenko was 6th at his first JW, too, by the way. Daniel was 12th at his first one.

The North American coaches can't do what the Russian coaches can with the ladies and the jumps. But I am talking about men's skating. All the best men in the world are in North American but the non russian ladies really don't go to Russia. This is exactly the thing people are talking about. Why is it russian men coached by Russians in russia cant do what the ladies are? Why did both Samarin and aliev collapse and savosin didn't even register? Russia has three next year but I hope there is some lead in to compete and controlling nerves because there's a hue problem that's not getting better at all. Moving to better coaches for all might be a fix. Preferably outside of Russia as training in Russia is not working at all.

 

[cheerknithanson]

Who else besides me is still over-the-moon about the FP yesterday?

 

[Layback11]

Who else besides me is still over-the-moon about the FP yesterday?

Me! What a rush...

Who else besides me is still more than a little shocked that L/L-G's "marriage" has been almost completely confirmed? ...

 

[invisiblespiral]

Me! What a rush...

Who else besides me is still more than a little shocked that L/L-G's "marriage" has been almost completely confirmed? ...

Me.

 

[cheerknithanson]

Me.

Ditto.

 

[Layback11]

Me.

Okay, you have got to write more about this...your first story was hilarious and I would just DIE if you wrote something about their wedding and/or them finding out all these people on the Internet are going nuts with wild speculation about whether or not it's true. :yes:

 

[Osmond4gold]

The North American coaches can't do what the Russian coaches can with the ladies and the jumps. But I am talking about men's skating. All the best men in the world are in North American but the non russian ladies really don't go to Russia. This is exactly the thing people are talking about. Why is it russian men coached by Russians in russia cant do what the ladies are? Why did both Samarin and aliev collapse and savosin didn't even register? Russia has three next year but I hope there is some lead in to compete and controlling nerves because there's a hue problem that's not getting better at all. Moving to better coaches for all might be a fix. Preferably outside of Russia as training in Russia is not working at all.

To give credit where credit is due, all the best men in the world and their coaches are in Canada, just as the best ladies and their coaches are currently in Russia.

 

[LadyB]

To give credit where credit is due, all the best men in the world and their coaches are in Canada, just as the best ladies and their coaches are currently in Russia.

Well spoken!

 

[gmyers]

To give credit where credit is due, all the best men in the world and their coaches are in Canada, just as the best ladies and their coaches are currently in Russia.

I include Ten so have to say North America.