2016 Skate Canada Ladies FP

[taltaltel]

Anyone could tell me why Satoko's entire step sequence got invalidated?

 

[Fetinia]

Good for you. I'm a New Yorker and I'm incredibly offended by it. "Cheap" meaning: lazy, exploitative, insensitive, inconsiderate, thoughtless, tactless, trauma porn.

I am a New Yorker and experienced 9/11 first hand escaping downtown Manhattan with many other people. An I appreciate the way this Russian girl pays a tribute to this tragic event in her program.

 

[AC96]

I am a New Yorker and experienced 9/11 first hand escaping downtown Manhattan with many other people. An I appreciate the way this Russian girl pays a tribute to this tragic event in her program.

Please see my earlier comment about how this program is not serving as a tribute.

 

[luckyguy]

Please see my earlier comment about how this program is not serving as a tribute.

I think you should learn to accept that there are people who have a different opinion than you.

 

[AC96]

I think you should learn to accept that there are people who have a different opinion than you.

Fetina was the poster who originally quoted me, and thus engaged me in a conversation that I was choosing to contribute to. I did not solicit it. I think you should learn how intellectual discourse works.

 

[[email protected]]

Just read the last page to understand that I don't want to read the whole thread because I know what is in there. I might get in the mood to reply and bring negativity to some people I never saw and likely will never see in my life. They might reply bringing negativity to me. It is not worth it. Someone is offended - fine with me, we already discussed it here on many pages in different threads. Judges were not offended and the audience who gave standing ovation were not offended as well. There is a thread in politics section about indignation, "how she dared?!", etc. It is better to leave these discussions there, I think.

Medvedeva was just brilliant. This is a performance you see in the shows but with all the difficult elements. Whatever people say it is not the same program from the last season. A great actor can say exactly the same line bringing opposite emotions. Last year program was lyrical but light. This year program is dark and gloomy. And Zhenya is perfect portraying both moods. Why would a 16 year old girl tell the world that it is not the safe place? I don't know. Why a 6 year old Harvey Stevens played devil in Omen (1976), played so well that I was blatantly scared? That's the job of the artist to be perfect in the realization of the director's ideas. And Zhenya was perfect in that respect. She was not perfect technically with a couple of stumbles. I don't know if it is nothing or an early warning. The season is long - she may start to grow during it. And how it will affect her consistency, who knows? I am still waiting to see healthy Radionova this season.

Osmond was OK for me tonight. I enjoyed her SP but FP was sort of forgettable. Skating wise and spin wise she is very good. Once again, while their style is kind of similar, I would prefer clean Kaetlyn over clean Gracie and I am very glad she is doing that good.

Satoko....sigh. I always said that she was overscored and that I did not like her programs. But now that she is hit that hard I think it is unfair. It deprives a skater of the understanding of the reality. If you receive one week 208 and the other week 192 for basically the same clean skating you may be just overwhelmed. There is something wrong with judging. And in fact I liked her FP. I saw the story she was trying to tell and how she connected to the story. It was anything but boring.

 

[luckyguy]

Fetina was the poster who originally quoted me, and thus engaged me in a conversation that I was choosing to contribute to. I did not solicit it. I think you should learn how intellectual discourse works.

Sorry, I do not see any intellectuality in your words like "Cheap" meaning: lazy, exploitative, insensitive, inconsiderate, thoughtless, tactless, trauma porn.

You do not need to answer.

 

[CeCiLiA]

Medvedeva is very consistent, with almost the same line up of the last year the muscular memory work better. But i don' like her skating coreography, i don't like the obvious and the pantomimic for a second season, is not my cup of tea at all.

 

[AC96]

Sorry, I do not see any intellectuality in your words like "Cheap" meaning: lazy, exploitative, insensitive, inconsiderate, thoughtless, tactless, trauma porn.

You do not need to answer.

My apologies for not using 4 syllable words and PhD level philosophical theories when describing a program - accurately and truthfully, I might add.

 

[whatif]

My apologies for not using 4 syllable words and PhD level philosophical theories when describing a program - accurately and truthfully, I might add.

You do act like one.

 

[millie]

I experienced 9/11 in a different way..I was on the other end of the spectrum. My town of Gander's population doubled in a matter of hours. When the UNited States airspace was closed to all air traffic, all the planes were diverted to Gander, People of all different races, religions and color were all housed together in our schools, centres and any place that they could lay their heads. We fed them, gave them clothes and all the necessities for live. We had a population of about 6000 people with approx. another 7000 stranded passengers. Go to Broadway to see the upcoming production "Come from away'

This is figure skating and people are bickering over a skating program....go figure

Oh I forgot to mention this little island is the home of Kaetlyn Osmond.

 

[MalAssada]

I try to stay out of the 9/11 debate because I thankfully never went through anything like it: I was a kid when it happened, and all the other attacks happened far away from Brazil, so as much as I was exposed to pictures, scenes and debates, it simply is not the same.

So, leaving the content of the program out, I will say that I am disappointed in Medvedeva's programs this season. I am not a fan of hers, but I would always watch the programs because I love the music she skates to - in fact, I still want to know what the second half of her LP in the 2013-2014 is called - and this years' just was not up to what she skated to, so far.

Her team seems to be working with the approach of "Don't fix what is not broken". I wish she would try the "improve before it breaks", sometimes.

 

[Alexz]

I experienced 9/11 in a different way..I was on the other end of the spectrum. My town of Gander's population doubled in a matter of hours. When the UNited States airspace was closed to all air traffic, all the planes were diverted to Gander. People of all different races, religions and color were all housed together in our schools, centres and any place tha they could lay their heads. We fed them, gave them clothes and all the necessities for live. We had a population of about 6000 people with approx. another 7000 stranded passengers. Go to Broadway to see the upcoming production "Come from away'

This is figure skating and people are bickering over a skating program....go figure

Oh I forgot to mention this little island is the home of Kaetlyn Osmond.

Thanks for sharing this! Seriously, it recovers my faith in humanity again.

 

[Barb]

I try enjoy and appreciate Evgenia´s skating because I am 99% sure that she will lost her jumps at 1 or max 2 years but her choreography is simply so cheap

 

[Johns]

What we saw this afternoon was instead a fairly blatant attempt at sticking to a formulaic style to score avant garde risk-taking points with judges without actually taking a risk.

Please don't say we, speak for yourself. It's your opinion! And clearly, majority of people and professional judges enjoyed he programm very much and praised it. It's all over the Internet and we saw the standing ovation at the rink after Evgenia's performance. I, personally, find the programm one of the best.

 

[TheGrandSophy]

Hey, I'm a Jew and I would be ok with it. It's not like we should hate all Germans now for no reason. The problem was not Germany and not even ideology of nationalistic supremacy, but the dirty politics and unfair situation German nation was put into after WW1, which surely led to WW2. Med's program is not just about 9/11, but if you like hating - hate not the choreographer, not the coach, not the program and not the young skater, but hate terrorists and politicians who sponsoring them. Art is the most important thing that brings freedom and unity to our world, and yet you along some others are advocating against freedom of artistic expression and trying to introduce censorship. Trust me not everything on this planet is about you and you shallow bubble of small world you live in. I know you better than that, just look on this program from other people's perspective. They also lost their people in other countries tries due to terrorist attacks too.

1. At what point was my comment about hating Germans, Medvedeva or anyone? Straw man.
2. Nowhere have I or anyone else
advocated censorship. You have the right to skate it. I have the right to hate it. And express it. It, btw, IT. Not HER.
3. Can you be any more patronising? I do not live in a shallow bubble. I will leave it with that simple statement because any more to that comment and I'd end up banned.

We should ban all the movies which "based on true events" now too. With all due respect, don't be silly. It's not the sounds or skating choreography who made 9/11 tragedy happen, but the terrorists. I personally see no disrespect in this program towards anyone. On contrary it shows the struggle of suspense, when good or bad news are expecting to come.. I personally don't see this program as a masterpiece, but it has all the rights to exist and be performed. It's tacky? Yep, in some way. It's tear-jerking gimmicky? Yep. Cheesy? Not really, it covers a serious topic - losing the loved ones to terrorist attack, and 9/11 does not hold monopoly on this this here. Terrorism is international biggest problem #1. Why hate the figure skating program and don't hate terrorism?

My God. You do love a straw man, don't you? Yes, I hate a FS programme. Ergo, I must not hate terrorism. Of course.

It´s extremely sad to see people hate a skater for an expressive program, that is supposed to send a message, but I am afraid that message can no longer be heard, as propaganda has taken over the hearts of many at this forum and all around the world. Don´t you even realize, how angry and full of hate you are? Job well done, by the politicians who put the seed of hate into your all hearts, it´s so sad.

You know, we had several programs in the past, where skaters talked about things that really happened in life, be it the Tsunami victims, Holocaust or sinking of the Titanic.

If we look at the most successful music and Hollywood productions, then they are almost always about a dramatic scenario of the past. Titanic, James Ryan - both award winning movies that everyone has seen and I bet, nobody of those who hate on the Russian now, has ever cared about any victim of the second world war or the sinking. Yes, people died there too, my grandfather was shot, my grandmother put into a labor camp - so what, does this mean, I have to hate Americans for these movies who cash in on the tragedy of the European continent, that I have to hate Russians because of things their grandparents might have done?

Seriously,

Evgenias programs were not created to offend anyone, they were created to send a message, each program of her is real, I can identify myself with each one, the loss of hearing is so real for all of us that make music, the threats of terror, the change from dark to light, something that happens almost every day in our society - we had weeks in Europe, where almost daily a terror attack was committed, it´s all there, it´s the world we live in and it get´s worse every day, as people are so stubborn and dumb to believe everything that politicians say. I am glad that she is so brave to skate meaningful programs, that are not about "lalala, we are all happy". She is going a different path and I support that.

That being said, if what I saw today and also yesterday, is really what this forum will be all about this season, then I will pass, thank you.

When do you get off telling people they have hate in their heart? I mean... wth? Secondly, she can skate to whatever she wants. If she wants to skate a programme about every atrocity under the sun, go for it. Tano her way to points. Just don't put real life footage in or, if you do, expect people to say it is offensive.

There are many movies and documentaries on subject of tragedy/conspiracy around 9/11. IMHO, this figure skating choreography is not that bad comparing to some. Could the music be better and has less SFX? Yeah, but I still can't see how people can be offended by ... what excatly? .... sounds? We are not offended by shameless lies of our dirty crooked politicians, we are not fighting barbaric terrorists, but we should be offended by sound snippets from newscasts of the past? C'mon, people. This program is not about people dying in NYC, it was made in honor to all relatives who lost their friends and loved ones. The way I see it this choreography does not glorify or celebrate death, but shows the feelings of people who are about to receive the bad news (or not). A little courage here? It is extremely easy to get offended if one is looking for a reason to get offended. With all respect to all victims and relatives of 9/11 and many other tragedies of the past century.

Could this choreography be better? Yes. Is it a bit exploitative ? Yes, in a way, but so is all other art - it touches strings of our inner world and feelings. Art should make people feel, it should acres not only the pleasant and happy emotions, imho. It just should make you feel.

There are people who have experienced some of the most traumatising events in modern society. They don't need to hear this at a flipping FS contest. How do you have the right to tell people actually there what they find distressing?

Here. You feel offended. Art can be provocative too. If this program and choreography are so discussable and controversial - Averbukh reached his goal to start people discussing the issue of terrorism. Certainly, your feeling IS valid, but that only means that silly Averbukh got what he wanted by his oh-not-so-perfect choreography - he made you feel. Since you just can't shut it for another good hour after the Med's skate is over. And Averbukh is probably happily asleep right on another side of the planet. And yet here you are so "offended" and vocal here. I say his goal is reached?

You will be surprised ho many more provocative art out there in modern world now. Just go to the closest art expo. Start with some controversial photographers first and move your way slowly into indie cinematography.

Omg, you've reached peak patronising. Yes, I've been to art shows, thanks. She's tano-ing her way over ice in a sequinned dress. This ain't art. It's mediocre mime with jumps thrown in. Averbukh didnt make me feel a damn thing with this programme. It's cut and paste from last year with a phone call thrown in, for heaven's sake. The girl skated well. She makes her jumps and does some decent skating. She deserved to win. But please. Art, IMO, it ain't.

 

[TMC]

Thanks @TheGrandSophy

 

[Alexz]

@TheGrandSophy you are so right and I'm so wrong. Let it go. It will make your life easier.

 

[avantgardener]

Here. You feel offended. Art can be provocative too. If this program and choreography are so discussable and controversial - Averbukh reached his goal to start people discussing the issue of terrorism. Certainly, your feeling IS valid, but that only means that silly Averbukh got what he wanted by his oh-not-so-perfect choreography - he made you feel. Since you just can't shut it for another good hour after the Med's skate is over. And Averbukh is probably happily asleep right on another side of the planet. And yet here you are so "offended" and vocal here. I say his goal is reached?

You will be surprised ho many more provocative art out there in modern world now. Just go to the closest art expo. Start with some controversial photographers first and move your way slowly into indie cinematography.

I'd have SO MUCH MORE respect for this program if it *were* trying to be (or to say something) provocative... It's mendacious to suggest that what's "controversial" here = the artistic statement Averbukh is trying to make about terrorism. I *wish* the reason this program were so controversial was because it challenged us / forced us to confront and grapple with his artistic commentary on the 9/11 tragedy. THAT = a lofty (and I do think worthwhile) artistic aim.

But let's be real... What people are finding controversial and "so discussable" = the too challenging/provocative and deep artistic vision communicated via the choreography. Rather, it's the glibness / LACK of depth —> it's using the very specific tragedy of 9/11 as a backdrop for a program that tells a shallow / gimmicky 'story' without meaningfully engaging with the tragedy itself... It's one thing to have a program that tries to communicate an abstract idea about tragedy in general (or even just tell a more obvious/literal story like the one in this program)... but when you make the program about a specific national tragedy by using actual media sound bytes from that tragedy, but then don't actually grapple with anything real/meaningful about 9/11 itself —> it makes the whole thing feel a bit hollow...

To put it another way: instead of making us feel something and breaking our hearts through the choreography itself, it's using the 9/11 tragedy as a shortcut to give the program an emotional heft—that it doesn't actually earn... And don't get me wrong —> lots of programs sort of 'cheat' in this way (i.e., exploiting things beyond the choreography / presentation to generate emotion; it's why we have warhorses like "Carmen" and "Phantom") —> but to use the 9/11 tragedy in this way (i.e., drawing on our outside memories / experiences of the tragedy) strikes many here as being offensively exploitative. A better and more artistically ambitious program would try to evoke in us those feelings through the choreography and skating itself—and it wouldn't need to rely on cheap tricks like using sound bytes from a specific recent tragedy to make us feel the feels...

So I sincerely don't think this controversy = just all part of Averbukh's profound artistic vision —> ha, unless perhaps he intended to provoke a very meta discussion about where we should draw the line in recent-historical-tragedy-themed programs between respectful/tasteful vs. offensive/exploitative...

[And just speaking of sincerity... For a program like this to work, you need not only a choreographer's artistic vision but also an authenticity and commitment from the skater to convey this kind of deeper message —> and while I do give Medvedeva much credit for commitment to the story she's telling, particularly in the compellingly-acted opening and closing moments... I also just don't buy that a primary aim with each performance of this FS = conveying to the audience some kind of deeper commentary on 9/11 or terrorism in general. (And I don't fault her for that at all —> I think she's so much better than the material she was given here)].

(Ha, and apologies for writing so much!! I promise to now go sit quietly in the corner for a while... )

 

[TheGrandSophy]

@TheGrandSophy you are so right and I'm so wrong. Let it go. It will make your life easier.

Nope, obviously not reached peak patronising. Tell people they're shallow, don't understand Art with a capital A and they have hate in their hearts, and, when they get mad, pat them on the head and tell them to let it go. After all, they are just sooooo emotional. I don't want my life 'easier'. I'll stand up for what I think is right any day, thanks. I will agree taking this conversation any further will not be productive though. That is one thing we can agree on now, I think. Good night.