2017 Four Continents Free Dance

[keasus]

I don't get this..but I can admire it's execution. Those twizzles, especially the last ones, were fast.[/QUOTE

Well I'm a big fan of minimalism, and I give them MUCHO credit for this because it ain't easy to dance to something where the music is NOT going to do at least half the work for you.

MUCH MUCH better attack and speed in the first half of the program from earlier in the season. I'll be curious to see the levels.

I don't care if I'm the cheese who stands alone. It's my favorite FD of the season.

Hey Weak Ankles, I am the cracker for your cheese, so you aren't standing alone

 

[ancientpeas]

I have to say on further reflection (and sleep) I think the Shibs were much better today than at Nationals or in the GPF. I might have had them a wee bit closer to V/M as (and I don't really care what the judges said) I still think V/M were a tad sloppy. Really still annoyed at the H/D making silly mistakes problem.

Someone in the SD (Sorry.. I don't remember who but it could have been Mrs. P since that is where a lot of smart ID comments come from) said that Piper and Paul's problem with the bobbles (their second GP, the lackluster nationals and yesterday) are because they are doing elements that they are not skilled enough yet to perform with certainty. This would explain why the mistakes are usually Piper's (as in my opinion she is the weaker of the two). Add competition nerves and I think sometimes they are skating too hard. Here is hoping they get it together for worlds.

Also, if, as some you think, Weaver and Poje are being dumped and don't have a chance at a medal at the Olympics I hope Skate Canada considers having them skate either the SD or the FD in the team event. It would personally make me sad to see these two retire (and I assume they will after 2018) without an Olympic medal or a World Championship.

Best discovery of ID this year for me has been Mr. Sun. What a bright light. Such joy and abandon. I don't really understand some of the technical elements of ID but I do know happiness and commitment when I see it. Well done, sir. I hope we see more of you and the other Chinese ID (and Korean and Australian) on the GP circuit this year.

 

[NoNameFace]

I think my other issue with the "lack of range" claim is that they have done three successful SDs, which by their nature are very different. In fact, I think that is where people have bought into them more. I'd very interested to see how they do with Latin next season...they really struggled with it in 2011-2012, but I think they can make it work much better this time around.

the weird thing for me was that they always had striking Short Dances, very much standing out of the field, looking as a whole and so-so FD I was never able to connect until last year. They were always able to interpret theme/rhythm imposed very well, with strong choreography, great costuming and music. Moreover - for me they always had SDs suiting them to the T, bringing out their best qualities as performers, last year's 'Coppelia' was an exquisite example of that. And yes - in my opinion they've shown a lot of diversity in SD segment, being able to mold themselves, their abilities/qualities to the certain theme, to come up with something standing out, sharply, confidently executed.

Next year will be definitely a challenge I think, but as they found a way this year with Hokuto and Aye involved into choreography, I have a faith that they will take good approach, working for them.

 

[slider11]

Weaver and Poje seemed perplexed. Their fix with Morozov apparently is not working with the judges. I love the intricacies of their FD. That lift at the end where she goes up and down his body is wonderful. The performance was a little stagnant in spots and not as riveting as it could be. It seems everyone is holding their breath for their twizzles to see if they make it through and that detracts from the overall impression. Virtue and Moir certainly have the momentum. shib were fantastic although there were a few sticky spots that otherwise might have gotten them to 116-117. Very glad for Piper and Paul's recovery with that sensational FD. Overall a very good showing by all.

 

[Mrs. P]

I have to say on further reflection (and sleep) I think the Shibs were much better today than at Nationals or in the GPF. I might have had them a wee bit closer to V/M as (and I don't really care what the judges said) I still think V/M were a tad sloppy. Really still annoyed at the H/D making silly mistakes problem.

Someone in the SD (Sorry.. I don't remember who but it could have been Mrs. P since that is where a lot of smart ID comments come from) said that Piper and Paul's problem with the bobbles (their second GP, the lackluster nationals and yesterday) are because they are doing elements that they are not skilled enough yet to perform with certainty. This would explain why the mistakes are usually Piper's (as in my opinion she is the weaker of the two). Add competition nerves and I think sometimes they are skating too hard. Here is hoping they get it together for worlds.

Also, if, as some you think, Weaver and Poje are being dumped and don't have a chance at a medal at the Olympics I hope Skate Canada considers having them skate either the SD or the FD in the team event. It would personally make me sad to see these two retire (and I assume they will after 2018) without an Olympic medal or a World Championship.

Best discovery of ID this year for me has been Mr. Sun. What a bright light. Such joy and abandon. I don't really understand some of the technical elements of ID but I do know happiness and commitment when I see it. Well done, sir. I hope we see more of you and the other Chinese ID (and Korean and Australian) on the GP circuit this year.

That was me who made that comment regarding Paul and Piper! (And you are too kind regarding that my comments are "smart"). I think a constant comment I make about them is-- oh wow, look at that transition! or "that's cool they have so many closed holds! And I think they do make a effort, for better or worse, to do interesting programs (Hitchcock was a huge success for them, the Beatles/waltz thing not so much until they changed it considerably). They have a lot of positive qualities -- they generally don't miss levels (SD here being a notable exception) and they have a speed, but I think the challenge for them is to put it all together in a way that makes them stand out from the PCS side in the world field.

I think their FD today was a huge step forward; I argue it was better than what they did at Skate Canada. I think with the SD, they need to maybe scale it back a little bit---the SD already has a lot of requirements as it is.

 

[Barb]

Weaver and Poje seemed perplexed. Their fix with Morozov apparently is not working with the judges. I love the intricacies of their FD. That lift at the end where she goes up and down his body is wonderful. The performance was a little stagnant in spots and not as riveting as it could be. It seems everyone is holding their breath for their twizzles to see if they make it through and that detracts from the overall impression. Virtue and Moir certainly have the momentum. shib were fantastic although there were a few sticky spots that otherwise might have gotten them to 116-117. Very glad for Piper and Paul's recovery with that sensational FD. Overall a very good showing by all.

I hate the SD of W/P but the FD is good. For me V/M, S/S and W/P are the best teams of the world, but I don´t understand what happens with their twizzles, it never were their forte but it is too much now.

 

[ancientpeas]

That was me who made that comment regarding Paul and Piper! (And you are too kind regarding that my comments are "smart"). I think a constant comment I make about them is-- oh wow, look at that transition! or "that's cool they have so many closed holds! And I think they do make a effort, for better or worse, to do interesting programs (Hitchcock was a huge success for them, the Beatles/waltz thing not so much until they changed it considerably). They have a lot of positive qualities -- they generally don't miss levels (SD here being a notable exception) and they have a speed, but I think the challenge for them is to put it all together in a way that makes them stand out from the PCS side in the world field.

I think their FD today was a huge step forward; I argue it was better than what they did at Skate Canada. I think with the SD, they need to maybe scale it back a little bit---the SD already has a lot of requirements as it is.

I feel like I often learn something reading your posts about the Shibs FD and P/C's FD since neither reaches me on an emotional level. I like bright and shiny. I like glittery and loud. subtle is sometimes lost on me. I also prefer my ID to be passionate and romantic (which is probably why I like B/S more than others do). I wish I'd be around more before the last Olympics (I mostly lurked and only signed up when the rules changed to stop lurking in the competition threads without an account). Maybe you could have helped me with my Davis/White problem. (As in, I totally support them winning and I admired their technical abilities a lot but I felt nothing. NOTHING when they skated.)

 

[ancientpeas]

I hate the SD of W/P but the FD is good. For me V/M, S/S and W/P are the best teams of the world, but I don´t understand what happens with their twizzles, it never were their forte but it is too much now.

And it's usually Andrew that messes them up. Alex S. should have a summer boot camp. He could make a fortune.

You wouldn't put P/C in the best category? they aren't really my thing but I get why the judges love them.

 

[nocturnalis]

Weaver and Poje seemed perplexed. Their fix with Morozov apparently is not working with the judges. I love the intricacies of their FD. That lift at the end where she goes up and down his body is wonderful. The performance was a little stagnant in spots and not as riveting as it could be. It seems everyone is holding their breath for their twizzles to see if they make it through and that detracts from the overall impression. Virtue and Moir certainly have the momentum. shib were fantastic although there were a few sticky spots that otherwise might have gotten them to 116-117. Very glad for Piper and Paul's recovery with that sensational FD. Overall a very good showing by all.

Because the choreography was never the problem. They won when they did well and lost when they didn't. The logical conclusion would have been to do well at Worlds, but they decided to blow up their team so their failures fall at their feet.

 

[Barb]

nobody (esp not TSL) will care b/c a russian is not participating here

don´t be so sure, if it is for bash to the Shibs they could be interested.

I told you https://twitter.com/SkatingLesson/status/832611137631944704

 

[SnowWhite]

I have to say on further reflection (and sleep) I think the Shibs were much better today than at Nationals or in the GPF. I might have had them a wee bit closer to V/M as (and I don't really care what the judges said) I still think V/M were a tad sloppy. Really still annoyed at the H/D making silly mistakes problem.

Someone in the SD (Sorry.. I don't remember who but it could have been Mrs. P since that is where a lot of smart ID comments come from) said that Piper and Paul's problem with the bobbles (their second GP, the lackluster nationals and yesterday) are because they are doing elements that they are not skilled enough yet to perform with certainty. This would explain why the mistakes are usually Piper's (as in my opinion she is the weaker of the two). Add competition nerves and I think sometimes they are skating too hard. Here is hoping they get it together for worlds.

Also, if, as some you think, Weaver and Poje are being dumped and don't have a chance at a medal at the Olympics I hope Skate Canada considers having them skate either the SD or the FD in the team event. It would personally make me sad to see these two retire (and I assume they will after 2018) without an Olympic medal or a World Championship.

Best discovery of ID this year for me has been Mr. Sun. What a bright light. Such joy and abandon. I don't really understand some of the technical elements of ID but I do know happiness and commitment when I see it. Well done, sir. I hope we see more of you and the other Chinese ID (and Korean and Australian) on the GP circuit this year.

I doubt Weapo will end up in the team event. I believe the schedule is going to be the same as in Sochi, which means pairs and men are earlier than ladies and ID. In that case, men and pairs are likely to get the subs, so they couldn't have W/P sub in for dance. Unless Chiddy decides he wants to go for team gold and skate both, which is possible, and then I don't know which they'd sub of ladies or ID. I'd like to see them get a medal one way or another, although I also want Nic Nadeau to make them team and skate in the team event (keeping the Elvis).

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

The thing I loved about Weaver/Poje was how intricate and demanding their choreography was. You could always count on them to provide content and take their choreography to the next level with their performance. Now that Morosov did his generic thing on them and took out what it was that made them special to me, I find they lost what it was about them that I loved. I get why they felt the need to shake things up. They felt they were stagnating with Anjelika and Pasquale, V/M's return put them in a precarious situation, and they started having trouble executing their content so they felt Morosov would help clean up their technique. I'm just not liking their new package as much and them simplifying their routines gets rid of a lot of the advantage they had over teams like C/B, P/C, and the Shibs.

 

[keasus]

I feel like I often learn something reading your posts about the Shibs FD and P/C's FD since neither reaches me on an emotional level. I like bright and shiny. I like glittery and loud. subtle is sometimes lost on me. I also prefer my ID to be passionate and romantic (which is probably why I like B/S more than others do). I wish I'd be around more before the last Olympics (I mostly lurked and only signed up when the rules changed to stop lurking in the competition threads without an account). Maybe you could have helped me with my Davis/White problem. (As in, I totally support them winning and I admired their technical abilities a lot but I felt nothing. NOTHING when they skated.)

Watching D/W always made me feel the same way I feel after watching a great Gene Kelly routine: I want to get off the couch and DANCE, DANCE, DANCE with abandon.

 

[ancientpeas]

I doubt Weapo will end up in the team event. I believe the schedule is going to be the same as in Sochi, which means pairs and men are earlier than ladies and ID. In that case, men and pairs are likely to get the subs, so they couldn't have W/P sub in for dance. Unless Chiddy decides he wants to go for team gold and skate both, which is possible, and then I don't know which they'd sub of ladies or ID. I'd like to see them get a medal one way or another, although I also want Nic Nadeau to make them team and skate in the team event (keeping the Elvis).

I think you are totally correct. I think the order is problematic to be honest. It shouldn't always be pairs first if they have the team event. Gives teams without two strong pairs a real disadvantage. I'd love to see them allow 2 changes for each discipline (yes, I realize that's a lot of skaters but I always want more winners rather than fewer). Then we could have D/R and (I'm assuming) S/B for pairs, Patrick and probably Nam but maybe Kevin (I too liked Nic's performance of Elvis but I think my heart would totally come apart and I'd be a wreck of ugly crying if Balde made the team and won a medal in the team event-yes I know this won't happen), V/M and W/P for dance and Kaetlyn and Gabby for women.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Maybe you could have helped me with my Davis/White problem. (As in, I totally support them winning and I admired their technical abilities a lot but I felt nothing. NOTHING when they skated.)

I'm not a big fan of D/W either. To me, they are an example of an Igor team circa Belbin/Agosto. I feel the same way about Chock/Bates, but I will give C/B credit for finding new choreographers to improve that part. I don't deny D/W's wins because they performed their elements well, performed with full abandon, and made their elements look almost dangerous which brought excitement. But to me, they lack the necessary dance ability that I love in my ice dance teams. Honestly, D/W's dominance is why I think so many people fell in love with Papadakis/Cizeron. P/C seemed to put much more emphasis on dance and interpretation of music and bringing in-depth character back into ice dance, which I felt was missing with D/W. V/M IMO were always the superior dancers and skaters to D/W but they had issues with element execution and their discomfort all season with "Seasons" made it hard to deny D/W even if I felt V/M were needlessly punished for that with the SD which I felt was much superior to what any team was doing that season and should not have been close with anyone else in scores.

 

[ancientpeas]

Watching D/W always made me feel the same way I feel after watching a great Gene Kelly routine: I want to get off the couch and DANCE, DANCE, DANCE with abandon.

No, see I get this. That's why I call it my Davis and White problem. The problem is me not them. I just never could get into their programs. Maybe it's because it was always so perfect that there was no drama? (just a theory)

 

[ancientpeas]

I'm not a big fan of D/W either. To me, they are an example of an Igor team circa Belbin/Agosto. I feel the same way about Chock/Bates, but I will give C/B credit for finding new choreographers to improve that part. I don't deny D/W's wins because they performed their elements well, performed with full abandon, and made their elements look almost dangerous which brought excitement. But to me, they lack the necessary dance ability that I love in my ice dance teams. Honestly, D/W's dominance is why I think so many people fell in love with Papadakis/Cizeron. P/C seemed to put much more emphasis on dance and interpretation of music and bringing in-depth character back into ice dance, which I felt was missing with D/W. V/M IMO were always the superior dancers and skaters to D/W but they had issues with element execution and their discomfort all season with "Seasons" made it hard to deny D/W even if I felt V/M were needlessly punished for that with the SD which I felt was much superior to what any team was doing that season and should not have been close with anyone else in scores.

I do see what you mean about P/C. It's totally different from D/W. Like apples to lychee.

 

[Mrs. P]

I feel like I often learn something reading your posts about the Shibs FD and P/C's FD since neither reaches me on an emotional level. I like bright and shiny. I like glittery and loud. subtle is sometimes lost on me. I also prefer my ID to be passionate and romantic (which is probably why I like B/S more than others do). I wish I'd be around more before the last Olympics (I mostly lurked and only signed up when the rules changed to stop lurking in the competition threads without an account). Maybe you could have helped me with my Davis/White problem. (As in, I totally support them winning and I admired their technical abilities a lot but I felt nothing. NOTHING when they skated.)

I think Davis and White are far more impressive live then they are on television. I also feel this way about Chock and Bates.

I always found it interesting that Shibs fans tended not to be huge fans of Davis and White, cause I don't fit in that mold. While I was not an uber, I generally enjoy their skating. What I like about them was this cerebral passion they had for each other, which is different than the traditional romantic connection we see with a lot of ID couples. They are both driven and passionate people and it showed in their programs. Their skill set was extremely high -- I'd argue few of the teams in the field, if any, would be able to do some of the lifts, such as the one they had for their Sczherazade program.

That said, that style is SO different from Virtue and Moir I totally get why people didn't like it. It's a you either love it or you don't situation.

Speaking of Bobrova/Soloviev, I used to dislike them greatly until I saw them live at Skate America in 2012. Their speed is incredible and yeah....they do the Russian drama SO well.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I told you https://twitter.com/SkatingLesson/status/832611137631944704

I wouldn't consider that as a bashing of Shibs. I mean, they are just talking the truth. Many of us consider it laughable, too

 

[ancientpeas]

I think Davis and White are far more impressive live then they are on television. I also feel this way about Chock and Bates.

I always found it interesting that Shibs fans tended not to be huge fans of Davis and White, cause I don't fit in that mold. While I was not an uber, I generally enjoy their skating. What I like about them was this cerebral passion they had for each other, which is different than the traditional romantic connection we see with a lot of ID couples. They are both driven and passionate people and it showed in their programs. Their skill set was extremely high -- I'd argue few of the teams in the field, if any, would be able to do some of the lifts, such as the one they had for their Sczherazade program.

That said, that style is SO different from Virtue and Moir I totally get why people didn't like it. It's a you either love it or you don't situation.

Speaking of Bobrova/Soloviev, I used to dislike them greatly until I saw them live at Skate America in 2012. Their speed is incredible and yeah....they do the Russian drama SO well.

I have never noticed that Shib fans aren't D/W fans before. That is interesting.
I never doubted that D/W worked really hard, were super committed and very, very skilled. I just couldn't connect with them. I realize (and yes this super idiotic of me) now that part of it was Charlie's hair. He never looked like anything other than a petulant teen to me. Meryl was lovely and sophisticated and Charlie looked like he should have a skateboard and a Mr. Slurpee to hand. Now that he's cut the cherubic locks he no longer looks like a valentines day cupid and looks like an actual adult male. I wonder if I saw them skating together now it would make enough of a difference to change my mind. I know it's a stupid thing to get hung up on but I just couldn't get past it sometimes. He was like a goldendoodle. Loveable, sweet and loyal but for a woman (me) who likes German Shepherds, Rotties and Dobbies it's all a little too tame and cute. I get though that this isn't an issue for most people.