2017 Four Continents Men FS

[chairmanmao]

You obviously don't want your pointless questions to be answered. You just want to spout erroneous claims because you are pissed. Accept the new reality.

I sincerely believe my question was done in the way of enlightening some things. Scores will always be discussed and dissected so I can say for certain the pointless thing is arguing for people to accept scores at face value and hoping people won't make so much noise. As an example I was a very passionate defender of Adelina when Yuna's very vocal fans were so adamant their queen won and I definitely enjoyed the banter. Nathan's uber fans should also have that same generosity in receiving criticisms for their favorite skater unless they think their arguments rest on shaky grounds and are as vacuous as Chen's LP.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

yeah but the thread is over 100 pages my dear.. you can't expect that everyone is reading the entire thing...

Oh, with somebody who tries to find anything to jump on, I kind of do.

But the main point for that was actually that IMO, it proofed my point about why I brought it up in the first place. You know, what you tried to twist into something it wasn't in the least.

 

[Art&Sport]

Wow, you totally missed the point, A&S.

I think what beki was referring to is the state of race relations in the U.S. It is a totally valid concern. Just look at what happened at the Grammy's last week. People of color still manage to be less marketable even if they're the most talented/skilled/charismatic.

That said, I think figure skating is a different realm and AAPI are all over figure skating and Michelle Kwan is a legend. I think Nathan will be plenty marketable.

Thanks. The nature of trying to read and respond to everything here is very difficult so the post I read was unclear and out of context. Sorry, now I get it. I wish there was a better way of navigating this forum.

 

[4everchan]

Oh, with somebody who tries to find anything to jump on, I kind of do.

But the main point for that was actually that IMO, it proofed my point about why I brought it up in the first place. You know, what you tried to twist into something it wasn't in the least.

all i said is that almost all athletes go through injuries... nothing more than that... i don't see the point really talking about one skater's injuries more than the others.


i didn't twist anything i simply gave my opinion and if i were to go a bit further here is that Sarah shouldn't trust you to keep her daughter if you are so eager to pounce on me or CSG for discussing yuzu's choice of quads.... we are harmless here... just curious about other options without the insider details... perhaps we should follow yuzu more closely... thousands apologies

last year i did discuss those and got very much attacked by so many people.... and that was before his injury. so, please do not mind me...

 

[Anni234]

Wow I am super late to the party since I had a really busy morning but WOW!!! Nathan actually won!!!! And got over 300! :hap93:

 

[cathlen]

and what about Patrick's 4t-3t... he got 17.17 for it... what is the highest score for that element?

It was gorgeous!


Congrats to Nathan on winning 4CC! And also Shoma and Yuzuru on medals These young guys are very impressive with all those quads. I had a feeling Yuzuru won't win 4CC, so I didn't bother to watch live, as he was my favourite and I actally thought he will do worse. At least I'm only frustrated and not sleepy and frustrated It's really good for me not to see Han Yan sabotaging himself again. My heart wouldn't have taken it well. But it's okay Hanee. You'll do better at Worlds, I know it

It looks like youngsters will be ones to fight for Worlds title, but I have a feeling that either Patrick or Javi will pull it off at Worlds and will at least podium. I'm not greatest fan Patrick's FP, but the flow of this program was so much better than Nathan's. For me it's clear there is still a gap in PCS between them and I'm glad Patrick is still skating to show how skating may look like. Instead of rushing to do 5 quads ina program I think for now only Yuzuru is balancing lots of quads while integrating it well in a program.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

all i said is that almost all athletes go through injuries... nothing more than that... i don't see the point really talking about one skater's injuries more than the others.

i didn't twist anything i simply gave my opinion and if i were to go a bit further here is that Sarah shouldn't trust you to keep her daughter if you are so eager to pounce on me or CSG for discussing yuzu's choice of quads.... we are harmless here... just curious about other options without the insider details... perhaps we should follow yuzu more closely... thousands apologies

Yes you are. By - just like now again - ignoring the context I mentioned it in.

last year i did discuss those and got very much attacked by so many people.... and that was before his injury. so, please do not mind me...

Last year Yuzu did do 2x 4T?

 

[sidneyke]

Those were amazing performances by Chen, Hanyu and Uno, considering the pressure and technical difficulty of their respective programs. Nathan Chen has really changed the game of men's skating. Even if he is not the best overall skater, relatively speaking. Because of the points system, it really doesn't matter. His point potential with 4 and 5 landed quads is so great, that even the best skaters: Hanyu, Javier and Patrick WILL HAVE TO BE PERFECT to beat him! That's the bottom line! One thing that Nathan has on all of them is that he is a crazy-consistent jumper. He's more consistent with his quads than Hanyu, than Javier, than Patrick and Shoma. Think about it, even with great overall skating, with masterful artistry and performance quality, how many points with that get you. I'm not saying the artistry doesn't matter. It does. And Chen just has to be good enough. And he is more than that! Hanyu got around 6 more points than Chen in the LP. But with that, Chen can easily make that up on the technical side. Here is the key point: We all know that the judges use the Program Components marks improperly. As someone else has pointed out on this board: If a skater consistently lands their jumps, their PCS with climber higher and higher. Even if they haven't gotten better in the area. So for Nathan, the key to getting better PCS is to keep jumping up a storm consistently. That was evident in his 88 PCS tonight. (I'm not saying I agree with this. It's just a flaw in the way the judges operate. And Nathan, smartly, is taking advantage of the system - which all skater attempt to do.) So if I were him, I'd keep doing what I am doing. He has won his last three competitions with tremendous scores. He has defeated Olympic champion Yuzuru Hanyu (and greatest skater in the world, imho) two times in a row! This sways the judges a lot. So they will give Chen even more respect, as long as he jumps well. The fact that he has the Quad Flip and Lutz is another huge advantage points wise. I really like all these top skaters a lot and totally enjoy their contrasting styles.

For all those saying that if Hanyu hadn't popped those quads, he would have won. There is another side to that discussion. One could said if Chen had not left so many points on the table in the free, he could have slammed the door shut to where it wouldn't matter what anyone else did. That's the thing. Nathan forces everyone to be perfect, even Hanyu, if they want to win. The fact is that Nathan is going to force the top men into ton of mistakes, because they will be pushing to match him in quads - they have to if they want to win. I read somewhere that Nathan attempted 50 quads in practice at US nationals. He land 47 of them!!!! That's insane! On the three he missed, he stepped out of one, fell on one and doubled another. He consistency will be a problem for all the top men. In the past, Hanyu, Javier and Patrick had such a cushion on the field that they could afford a mistake or two or maybe three, in an event, and still win by a mile. Well, those days are over! There is a new sheriff in town. And his name is Nathan Chen!!!

 

[tsuyoboogie]

What just happened? Is something wrong with Yuzu's back? He changed his Bielman and didn't seem to move his upper body much. I was not expecting all the jump switches in the second half.

THIS

Haven't caught up with this thread yet so I apologize if this has already been discussed at length, but as a Hanyu fan I'm seriously worried that Yuzuru may be injured again. No beillmann, usually=pain with Yuzuru. Also, his hydroblade, inabauer and SP zusaa~ concerned me. And yet, after the popped 4S3T combo he managed to successfully rework his program on the fly, still including/landing his 4 planned quads (2 4Ts instead of 2 4Ss) and his 2 3As. Regardless of the outcome, Yuzuru proved to me, again, to be a smart and amazing competitor. Sure he would've preferred to win this competition but it's more important he's healthy and in top condition for Worlds. So, instead of being disappointed in his 2nd place finish here, I'm going to continue to marvel at his genius and send him positive vibes and my support.


Congratulations to Nathan, Yuzuru and Shoma!
And thank you to all the guys for their hard work and dedication. Overall, I really enjoyed both Men's events.

 

[Plisskin]

Why won't they when they finally have a genuine Worlds and Olympic gold contender since Kwan?



At least Nathan is hype worthy and may be the reviver of figure skating in the US.

Yeah I don't really understand the complaints for this. Yuzuru and Shoma for instance get hyped up in their country because they are medal contenders. There is no reason why Nathan shouldn't be hyped in his, especially being the first U.S man to even contend for a medal possibly gold in 17 years since Lysacek's OGM. Jesus I can't believe it's been that long...

 

[Violet Bliss]

^^ Well, obviously you refuse to accept the fact that Nathan's programs are not inferior. You can even look at his entertaining Michael Jackson sp from his final season competing in juniors and see that Nathan has always possessed good performance abilities. He has been a phenom since the ages of 10 and 11, winning a number of U.S. novice and junior titles before breaking out onto the international junior and senior scenes. Along the way, Nathan has battled a number of injury setbacks that have only added to his strength of character and his determination to win.



Uh, there have been a number of worthy medal contenders and winners from the U.S. in all disciplines except for pairs both pre and post Michelle Kwan. U.S. ladies have gone through a Worlds and Olympics medal drought since 2006, but they have still contended on the international stage before and since Michelle Kwan. U.S. ice dancers have been very dominant for quite awhile, and we've had a number of talented winners and contenders in the men's division who have impacted the sport, even despite not being as competitive in the arena of quads in recent years. But that's not to say that U.S. men haven't trained and competed quads well before Nathan came along. U.S. men helped to pioneer quads from the 1980s onward.

A U.S. man, Brandon Mroz, was the first skater to land a quad lutz in a sanctioned ISU competition. Timothy Goebel was the first skater to land 3 quads in a free program. Evan Lysacek landed a quad/triple combo in 2007 at U.S. Nationals to win his first national championship. Evan did not need a quad to win 2010 Olympics because the sport was not ahead of the curve regarding the quad. Of course after 2010, the sport began to over-react in regard to quad development. Johnny Weir landed quads in practice but did not try them in competition pre 2010. To his credit, Johnny impacted the sport with his amazing elegance, technical purity, and his perfect erect posture in landing effortless looking jumps. Johnny's triple axel was a beauty to behold. Jeremy Abbott is a wonderful artist and dancer on the ice who inspired many of his peers. Of course there are many, many other great U.S. skaters, including Matthew Savoie, Adam Rippon, Jason Brown, Todd Eldredge, Rudy Galindo, Paul Wylie, Scott Hamilton, Brian Boitano, Charlie Tickner, Jon Misha Petkevich, Dick Button, et al.

Obviously, Nathan Chen is just one in a long line of groundbreaking American skaters. Nathan may or may not revive interest in figure skating in the U.S. That remains to be seen.

So when was the last time the American anthem was played at a major international event for Mens or Ladies? Without Nathan, is there a realistic Worlds and Olympic gold medal contender from the US?

Ice Dance, a strong discipline in the US, just doesn't get enough interest and attention. Also, as good as D/W was, they were not completely dominating because of V/M. The best known American skater in the last decade is Johnny weir and it's not because of his skating. He gets personal attention but didn't do that much for figure skating.

 

[OS]

Aaaa.. just woke up, can't believe I missed the whole thing. Amazing... Hanyu landed the 4loop, what a warrior and did more than the chase, the diginity of an OGM. Looks like such an exciting competition, lots to catch up.

Congrats Nathen! You did spectacular, you career can only go up higher from here. Don't you dare jump big in the gala!!!! Injury alert all the way till pyeonchang for you. Hanyu shows that quality still matters, but the TES base value that separate them is too wow not to notice. So many quads there! Boyang Jin 100+ TES Unbelievable. Plushy would have been so proud. Patrick... oh Patrick.

Off to check the vids now.

 

[MaiKatze]

2010 is 17 years away? Gosh I'm old..(And still bitter about Daisuke's fall on the quad...if only)

 

[Mrs. P]

So when was the last time the American anthem was played at a major international event for Mens or Ladies? Without Nathan, is there a realistic Worlds and Olympic gold medal contender from the US?

Ice Dance, a strong discipline in the US, just doesn't get enough interest and attention. Also, as good as D/W was, they were not completely dominating because of V/M. The best known American skater in the last decade is Johnny weir and it's not because of his skating. He gets personal attention but didn't do that much for figure skating.

2015 4CC when Polina Edmunds won.

 

[daphenaxa]

I put my alarm but didnt wake up :disagree:
Just watched the 3 first on yt :

Shoma omg those two quads at the beginning!!! That 4lo was a true beauty! Made me eat my words that he wasnt gonna land it! Sad the 3A were no show today and no 3A3F either, my favourite jump combo in the whole world. But beautiful performance in general. I really really love his FS. :luv17:

Yuzuru was #determined here. I was so impressed with him changing the program to do two quad toes and two 3A after the popped sal. I have to say i don't really like the program especially since he was not as emotionally heartfelt and connected to the music as he is usually.

Nathan: it's really impressive he can do a 5quad program as consistently and esp skating after Yuzuru's scores. What a competitor! It does help there is absolutely nothing around those 5 quads. I am really confused about his tr, int and composition scores. I mean... cmon! even SS is weird.
I think Hanyu was grossly robbed here. But it makes sense because USA.
It's also pretty funny to see all the American fans and commentators who were all about programs and SS with Jason, Adam, Ashley etc. be like "BUT 5 QUADS!!!!!1! Give him 90PCS becoz QUADZ and also his gala, he is artistic in that!!! " LOL I love how Boyang was the end of skating, the worse thing that ever happened but now Nathan who does basically the same (with better SS yes! But with no better everything else) is the saviour because he is American. Nathan even does the same lasso hand choreo in his stepseq as Boyang did in his dragon program! You cannot invent that!
Also Shoma gets slaughtered for his bad tech on the quads but watching Nathan land so many jumps on the inside edge of his blade worries me a lot. What even is that??
It's sad because I actually like Nathan and I think his SP is brilliant but those scores...

 

[Art&Sport]

... Nathan vs. Boyang is still the topic because it's a similar thing. They both arrive on the senior scene with an arsenal of quads. Why is Boyang far behind now? Because he is not american and the Chinese fed doesn't know how to support their single skaters. Look at Zijun. Of course, Nathan is better than Jin in some areas, but nationality plays a part.

You must be kidding. The reason Boyang is where he's at, and the reason he won a bronze medal at Worlds last year is because of full backing and support from his federation, plus the buzz and excitement over his quad lutz/triple combo within the skating community. The Chinese skater who is receiving less attention these days is the talented Han Yan.

Meanwhile, Zijun Li is a lovely skater who simply needs to develop more power and speed in her skating.

 

[apple123]

He got minus 2 for the falls. It is fair, because he is just that good.

Are you saying Shoma's skating skills and performance are as good as Chan? Because that's certainly not the case. And that empty program is not worth 9 for transition score.

 

[4everchan]

Last year Yuzu did do 2x 4T?

last year, i suggested yuzu should ditch the 4t combo as i didn't feel it was his best and i thought his 4s-3t was better... oh wait.. a bunch of people pounced on me...

so there. you have it.. whatever some of us suggest, it never pleases some fans. the truth is that yuzu's 4t was never as great as many other skaters who do the 4t.. so i suggest he goes for 4s and get attacked.... and well now.. he was injured and has to go for the 4s... interesting no?

 

[da96103]

It's probably been explained throughout but those complaining about Hanyu's loss is total déjà from Chan beating him at Skate Canada. Hanyu made major errors that cost him a ton of points - in both the SP and FS - 19 points given up on the doubled salchows, a 4.62 3S omitted within the series. Then factor in that Nathan does harder quads in his SP, and one more quad than Hanyu - again two of those 4Z/4F were harder than Hanyu's quads attempted.

Moreover I did not like Hanyu's performance quality compared to the GPF for example - his arms were mechanical and sloppy and especially after the 4S pop and you could tell he was "thinking" through it to modify the layout accordingly. Still even with the loss it was a great FS with 4 quads landed which is a first for him. I, like others, also wonder why he still goes for the 4S when his 4T looks more reliable.

Nathan's got too wild for me towards the end like the adrenaline was really kicking in but I guess you have to go full tilt to pull off a 5-quad 2-triple axel FS. He thoroughly deserved the win especially looking at the math. I also liked his ChSt, the energy in his final StSq and it was a nice fluid contrast to the jump fest preceding it.

I also think even with tough content Chen is making more and more of an effort to improve the performance each time. He knew himself that jumps wouldn't be enough and he had me sold.

That's the irony. He could not achieved a 4-quad with the planned content, but being forced with a failed 4S, he managed with all the unplanned (or at least plan B) stuff.

 

[4everchan]

Yeah I don't really understand the complaints for this. Yuzuru and Shoma for instance get hyped up in their country because they are medal contenders. There is no reason why Nathan shouldn't be hyped in his, especially being the first U.S man to even contend for a medal possibly gold in 17 years since Lysacek's OGM. Jesus I can't believe it's been that long...

it hasn't been that long 7 years only