2017 Four Continents Men SP

[HanDomi]

Of the questions I asked in my first post here, (also first post this page), D10 has responded - it'll be D0 at this 4CC. Boyang has confirmed his 5 quad program. Now if Patrick and/or Yuzuru made an announcement re my questions, we'd have at least 20 more pages before the event!

I don't think Hanyu's 4lz is coming this season, but who knows. He is practicing quad loops combinations so maybe he will do 4lo3T

 

[da96103]

Quad counts at 4CC FS final group

Nathan: 5 (Lz, F, S, T, T)
Boyang: 5 (Lz, Lo, S, T, T)
Yuzu: 4 (Lo, S, S, T)
Shoma: 3 (F, T, T) or (F, F, T)
Patrick: 3 (S, T, T)
(20 quads not counting the 6th person)

Add in for Worlds: Javi: 3 (S, S, T)
(23 quads)

Expected for Olympics 2018

Nathan: 5 (Lz, F, S, T, T)
Boyang: 5 (Lz, Lo, S, T, T)
Yuzu: 5 (Lz, Lo, S, S, T)
Shoma: 4 (F, Lo, T, T) or (F, F, Lo, T)
Patrick: 3 (S, T, T)
Javi: 3 (S, S, T)
(25 quads)

 

[da96103]

I don't think Hanyu's 4lz is coming this season, but who knows. He is practicing quad loops combinations so maybe he will do 4lo3T

I am hoping for a 4S-1Lo-4S.

 

[HanDomi]

I am hoping for a 4S-1Lo-4S.

I would like to see it too, but it's just not worth point wise

 

[Yatagarasu]

So let me get this right? Boyang is yet to complete a clean four quad program but he's going to add a new quad for a five quad program? Yes, that makes perfect sense. And since the judges aren't his fans even when he tries I can just imagine how that'll turn out.

Yuzuru needs to stick to his own plan. There is no need for a new 4Lz now. Slowly evolving while everything else is kept at a high level, to get an overall difficult program is the right way IMO. Plus it's not like he cannot raise his BV in other ways. It's what Patrick is doing too, a steady increase for a while now. I do believe that's the correct tactic.

For what he actually does in his LP, that still sounds way too high for me... .

It is but best we can hope for?

 

[Violet Bliss]

So let me get this right? Boyang is yet to complete a clean four quad program but he's going to add a new quad for a five quad program? Yes, that makes perfect sense. And since the judges aren't his fans even when he tries I can just imagine how that'll turn out.

Yuzuru needs to stick to his own plan. There is no need for a new 4Lz now. Slowly evolving while everything else is kept at a high level, to get an overall difficult program is the right way IMO. Plus it's not like he cannot raise his BV in other ways. It's what Patrick is doing too, a steady increase for a while now. I do believe that's the correct tactic.

Two different approaches are examplified by Chan and Hanyu. Chan has always been of the steady progress and incremental difficulty level sort, even restarting from a lower BV upon his comeback. Hanyu, OTOH, stubbornly sticks to his ultimate goal and program with all the jumps he wants to accomplish. Along the way, they both have some up and down competition results. Chan got three World titles, stays healthy and at 26 is still upping his game, adding more and new jumps to his programs. Hanyu incurs injuries, won one World title and smashed Chan's World Records with scores and performances that are hard to repeat. He is competing with the new generation of jumping phenoms in the numbers of different quads as their arsenals.

(I'm excluding the Olympic medals in this comparison because it was a case of who did worse on a day both were not proud of their performances.)

 

[friedbanana]

I'm kinda terrified for the men

 

[el henry]

Jason will be fine. he is a golden child and has wonderful pcs/skating skills. I really dislike the current scoring system. This means if Hanyu skates well he will only be ahead by maybe 5 to 7 pts on pcs and poor Chan maybe 6 to 8. These hardly seems fair, just or proper. But I guess that's the system. Its not that Chen is that bad. That being said with the current system I would say he has a decent shot after Hanyu for gold at worlds at the olympics. Unless, he gets "Namized" where he sprouts an incredible amount in one year which is unlikely.

Jason does have wonderful PCS/skating skills, but "golden child" could imply he has not earned them (as has been discussed in other threads). He has fought for, worked for and earned every PCS point.

I am at perplexed by all the attempts to add up BV. Has there been any comp ever where *all* the multiple quad-meisters have landed *all* their jumps??? Point it out to me, so that I may know. Otherwise, I'll keep my calculator in cold storage.

 

[Mrs. P]

Jason does have wonderful PCS/skating skills, but "golden child" could imply he has not earned them (as has been discussed in other threads). He has fought for, worked for and earned every PCS point.

I am at perplexed by all the attempts to add up BV. Has there been any comp ever where *all* the multiple quad-meisters have landed *all* their jumps??? Point it out to me, so that I may know. Otherwise, I'll keep my calculator in cold storage.

On the top of my head 2015 4CC was pretty close, as was 2015-2016 GPF. But that was when there were only, two-three quads tops, LOL (Boyang didn't land all his four quads....)

Anyway, my philosophy is that everyone has a different strategy -- upping BV seems the most obvious way to add points, but competitive mettle/consistency matters also and that's why it's not always the only way to do well in competition.

Of course if you have both high BV/competition/consistency, then

 

[4everchan]

quaddity VS quality...

honestly, so many of you talk about Boyang's improved skating..... erm yes... a bit but a couple shoulder shimmies and big smiles to the audience while he is clowning in la strada is not good enough... skating skills shall be seen on the ice not in the face or shoulders.... spins need a lot of work still as well... flow and transitions too...

So yes, now, the young kids are pushing and pushing... but at one point it will break down if they don't present any programs...

I have seen the difference between some skaters in the competitions i have attended this year....

Patrick Chan includes his jumps in his programs, it flows, lots of turns and steps and transitions... only 3 quads as that's all he plans and can do now but honestly, even with Patrick, they need set up.... other skaters I have seen even with just 2 quads, but up to 4, skate to one end of the ice, jump... come back... skate... jump... skate to the other end... jump... etc... VERY EMPTY programs...

On tv... it doesn't look as empty... live... it's dead boring... I hope the judges find a way to deal with this in awarding proper goe and pcs... because otherwise, it just becomes a jump show and if on tv it's still exciting... i was very disappointed in some of the jump shows i saw live... i wouldn't go back to live skating competitions if it were to become like that... might as well go to horse jumping shows...

 

[Yatagarasu]

Two different approaches are examplified by Chan and Hanyu. Chan has always been of the steady progress and incremental difficulty level sort, even restarting from a lower BV upon his comeback. Hanyu, OTOH, stubbornly sticks to his ultimate goal and program with all the jumps he wants to accomplish. Along the way, they both have some up and down competition results.

Actually Hanyu has been very steady with his addition of quads, which was the point I was trying to make. He takes his time with including them in programs because the overall is what matters to him. The 4Lz for example, talked about here, is something that's been in the works since 2015 and if the ITA ESP commentators are to be believed his percentage of success is higher than that of say Kolyada. But he doesn't just pop it in his programs, like for example Boyang or Shoma now. He waits because to paraphrase him, even if you can jump 2 or 3 type of quads, it's meaningless if you can do that and you can't do anything further.

And yes, of course his programs are with the jumps he wants to accomplish? Should he want to fail? And yes, I'm aware of Patrick's results, I don't need them listed here. Or Hanyu's because that's not the point. But you know what, never mind, forget it. It's just not worth it.

 

[Mrs. P]

Now it's time to predict on what page of this thread will start discussion regarding THE ACTUAL MEN'S SP.

I'm going to go with page 30.

In the meanwhile: 15 more pages of buzz over who is adding quads, various declarations that the old guard is heading out and the new sheriffs are in town, practice reports, Nathan's going win! No Yuzu is going to win! Boyang's 4Loop. Who will get PCS inflation. blah blah blah blah blah.

Oh and some more Star Wars fan fic (though I wouldn't mind if someone started a Star Trek version).

Pure entertainment.

 

[Tahuu]

Quad counts at 4CC FS final group

Nathan: 5 (Lz, F, S, T, T)
Boyang: 5 (Lz, Lo, S, T, T)
Yuzu: 4 (Lo, S, S, T)
Shoma: 3 (F, T, T) or (F, F, T)
Patrick: 3 (S, T, T)
(20 quads not counting the 6th person)

Add in for Worlds: Javi: 3 (S, S, T)
(23 quads)

Expected for Olympics 2018

Nathan: 5 (Lz, F, S, T, T)
Boyang: 5 (Lz, Lo, S, T, T)
Yuzu: 5 (Lz, Lo, S, S, T)
Shoma: 4 (F, Lo, T, T) or (F, F, Lo, T)
Patrick: 3 (S, T, T)
Javi: 3 (S, S, T)
(25 quads)

I read somewhere Shoma is adding 4Lo at 4CC.

Nathan only does one 3A all others are doing two 3A in the free. Looks like Jin's BV is going to be the highest among the 4CC men..

 

[el henry]

Now it's time to predict on what page of this thread will start discussion regarding THE ACTUAL MEN'S SP.

I'm going to go with page 30.

In the meanwhile: 15 more pages of buzz over who is adding quads, various declarations that the old guard is heading out and the new sheriffs are in town, practice reports, Nathan's going win! No Yuzu is going to win! Boyang's 4Loop. Who will get PCS inflation. blah blah blah blah blah.

Oh and some more Star Wars fan fic (though I wouldn't mind if someone started a Star Trek version).

Pure entertainment.

Yes! I have seen one (count 'em one) Star Wars, once, but we are currently on the second round of Voyager. Having seen DS9 twice, of course TNG more than twice, and the OG, well Fan Fic is not my thing, but at least I would understand it.

As for opining about the SP, that's what we do. As Kirk says to the Providers of Triskelion "Not a problem for *true* gamesters"

 

[Eclair]

If I may add to the discussion: Star Trek is way better. Star wars is overrated.^^ now I wonder how many pages this will turn out to be, hehe

 

[Tavi...]

Now I'm really curious. If this comp essentially turns into a quad war, with all the guys attempting as many quads as they possibly can, will the judges actually pay attention to execution, skating skills, programs, etc., and award PCS / GOE accordingly?

 

[tureis]

Quad counts at 4CC FS final group

Nathan: 5 (Lz, F, S, T, T)
Boyang: 5 (Lz, Lo, S, T, T)
Yuzu: 4 (Lo, S, S, T)
Shoma: 3 (F, T, T) or (F, F, T)
Patrick: 3 (S, T, T)
(20 quads not counting the 6th person)

Add in for Worlds: Javi: 3 (S, S, T)
(23 quads)

Expected for Olympics 2018

Nathan: 5 (Lz, F, S, T, T)
Boyang: 5 (Lz, Lo, S, T, T)
Yuzu: 5 (Lz, Lo, S, S, T)
Shoma: 4 (F, Lo, T, T) or (F, F, Lo, T)
Patrick: 3 (S, T, T)
Javi: 3 (S, S, T)
(25 quads)

Except these events may become splatfests of epic proportions... I mean, it's admirable that they are pushing the sport forward, but the pace is soooo dramatic, I'm not sure the resulting learning curve of subpar performances and underwhelming competitions are what the general audience will be pleased to witness.

 

[Mrs. P]

We'll find out in less than a week!

I Just hope everyone stays healthy...

 

[frida80]

I read somewhere Shoma is adding 4Lo at 4CC.

Nathan only does one 3A all others are doing two 3A in the free. Looks like Jin's BV is going to be the highest among the 4CC men..

Shoma is adding a 4Lo. Oh, testosterone is a strong drug!

I long for the days when men added new jumps at the beginning of the season rather than just before worlds!

 

[Violet Bliss]

Shoma is adding a 4Lo. Oh, testosterone is a strong drug!

I long for the days when men added new jumps at the beginning of the season rather than just before worlds!

The Men are jump starting the Olympic season in this arena. (Pun intended.)