2017 GP Rostelecom Cup Ladies FS

[Sam-Skwantch]

I do much prefer artistry expressed via skating and body movements a la Carolina Kostner and Patrick Chan.

But do you think she should score lower? Preference is one thing...I prefer mostly the skaters who aren't receiving the top scores but I don't think the scoring needs to match my preference. To me the difficulty and execution of the steps and transitions are quantifiable where as a perceived artistry is heavily dependent upon personal tastes.

I'm honestly curious as to your opinion and I'm not trying to make a point here.

 

[andromache]

Patrick Chan used to be habitually criticized for his lack of facial expressions. In figure skating, the feet should get get most of the attention, and body movements are part of skating skills as well as artistic expression. Facial expressions are only obvious on close ups for video viewers and are usually debated heatedly only when there is not much else to pick on legitimately.

That said, I find Evgenia's facial acting a bit too choreographed, over-used, and similar. Still, I don't think it should have much or any bearing on her scores. I do much prefer artistry expressed via skating and body movements a la Carolina Kostner and Patrick Chan.

I agree that artistry expressed via skating and body movements is superior to artistry expressed via facial expression.

Logically, I think that it is easier to express using the face rather than skating/body movements, because your face doesn't doesn't impact or interfere with how you perform your elements. So if you're struggling to perform your elements at 100% while simultaneously performing complex and interesting or aesthetically pleasing skating or body movements, you can use facial expressions to try to make up for it.

I think if Mirai was skating anywhere close to Patrick Chan or had body movements rivaling Carolina's, her lack of facial expression would be a total non-issue.

 

[andromache]

But do you think she should score lower? Preference is one thing...I prefer mostly the skaters who aren't receiving the top scores but I don't think the scoring needs to match my preference. To me the difficulty and execution of the steps and transitions are quantifiable where as a perceived artistry is heavily dependent upon personal tastes.

I'm honestly curious as to your opinion and I'm not trying to make a point here.

Ideally, enough of those personal tastes are represented on a single judging panel to approximate a fair score and a fair result, which I think is generally the case.

I also think knowledgeable and earnest fans and judges can recognize when something is effectively and appropriately expressed, even if it is not to their personal taste. I hate Wakaba's SP, but I recognize that her body movements are an effective portrayal of the music she's skating to.

Skating to Schindler's List with complex, difficult, and well-performed upbeat, exuberant dance-like choreography and a big smile on your face is, y'know, bad. I think it's fair to not want to reward that.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Ideally, enough of those personal tastes are represented on a single judging panel to approximate a fair score and a fair result, which I think is generally the case.

Brilliant!!! I totally agree :yes2:

Now how do we get fans to understand that not every judge shares their perception and that isn't a bad thing?

 

[Violet Bliss]

But do you think she should score lower? Preference is one thing...I prefer mostly the skaters who aren't receiving the top scores but I don't think the scoring needs to match my preference. To me the difficulty and execution of the steps and transitions are quantifiable where as a perceived artistry is heavily dependent upon personal tastes.

I'm honestly curious as to your opinion and I'm not trying to make a point here.

I agree that artistry expressed via skating and body movements is superior to artistry expressed via facial expression.

Logically, I think that it is easier to express using the face rather than skating/body movements, because your face doesn't doesn't impact or interfere with how you perform your elements. So if you're struggling to perform your elements at 100% while simultaneously performing complex and interesting or aesthetically pleasing skating or body movements, you can use facial expressions to try to make up for it.

Sometimes a skater exhibits emotions on his/her face while skating and it's often appreciated, sometimes even when the expression does not relate to the theme of the program but shows joy of skating, e.g. Michelle Kwan. My main problem with Evegenia's is that her facial acting is regularly choreographed as a stand alone part of the program.

But as I opined before, she deserves marks scored according to COP. I don't think the stand still theatrics should add to the artistic expression and performance marks, not that I know if they do.

I think if Mirai was skating anywhere close to Patrick Chan or had body movements rivaling Carolina's, her lack of facial expression would be a total non-issue.

Probably. There would be much more to see and appreciate, not lacking artistic expression.

 

[andromache]

Brilliant!!! I totally agree :yes2:

Now how do we get fans to understand that not every judge shares their perception and that isn't a bad thing?

All in all, I think salty fans (sometimes of which I am one) would feel better seeing a wider range of scores from judges for any single skater's composition, performance, and interpretation.

 

[kevinVchicago]

All in all, I think salty fans (sometimes of which I am one) would feel better seeing a wider range of scores from judges for any single skater's composition, performance, and interpretation.

Yes! To me, the PCS judging is truly ridiculous due to this. I don't see how anyone could look at that and feel otherwise! [emoji23] The scores across all fields are usually within a +/- .50 range. It's stupid and makes no sense!

 

[Alexz]

I lol'ed.. A bit.


https://retina.news.mail.ru/pic/c4/d7/image504838_3b90b81240f0363e84f530767f30418a.jpg

https://retina.news.mail.ru/pic/0d/4a/image504838_37b9dd9cff9b5c754319530d6d24c930.jpg

https://retina.news.mail.ru/pic/70/22/image504838_767d91adb3e256e1d7d2f191eab8f961.jpg

https://retina.news.mail.ru/pic/12/8f/image504838_af4d15cb0d6ea13f45261ed49764c480.jpg

https://retina.news.mail.ru/pic/e0/f5/image504838_178f2a9f65abecd4eea43de95361373b.jpg

https://retina.news.mail.ru/pic/4b/33/image504838_5f01aebfd1f89a2cd53cb608940f7879.jpg

https://retina.news.mail.ru/pic/d6/3e/image504838_1526fb69d0b9d827d691c874b8e11733.jpg

https://retina.news.mail.ru/pic/41/4b/image504838_a2a3c0550c1e9dcae0c9ddcf48cee32a.jpg

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I love when the skaters break out the group selfie stick and show us how much fun they all have

https://instagram.com/p/BalTV0cnwlJ/

 

[jenaj]

Trust me, they're being taken into account for male skaters as well as female. Otherwise I do not think Javier Fernandez would earn such high scores/

Emotional/intellectual involvement and projection, expression of the music's character, and demonstrating an inner feeling for the music have always been a part of evaluating PCS (I stole this language from the IJS), or in ye olden times, artistic impression. I personally wouldn't have it any other way.

It's so much more than fake smiling.



Saying "there is no longer a score for choreography" is blatantly false. Just because they changed the name doesn't mean choreography doesn't matter. The composition bullets clearly describe choreography. As far as "an intentionally developed and/or original arrangement of all types of movements according to the principles of musical phrase, space, pattern and structure" go, I find Mirai to be lacking, most notably due to the frequency with which she is skating from point A to point B with a lack of body movements relating to the music or otherwise performative/intentional body movements.

There used to be a choreography score but now there is something called composition. Composition apparently doesn't take into account things like skaters skating around for two minutes and then doing 7 jumping passes. I think Mirai's composition or choreography or whatever it's called is fine. She just needs to commit more to it. I think that will come as the season progresses. And maybe someone like Javier gets points for "performing" but men can still score high without having to smile and "emote," which are the kinds of thing that are demanded of female skaters. What male skater has ever been called "stone-faced?"

 

[CoyoteChris]

Did I miss something? Was Kaetlyn Osmond at this competition?

Mathman, I fear this forum is :
"No Country for Old Men"
This Olympic season on this forum can be described as:
"There Will be Blood"
It is clear that many here will be:
"Unforgiven"
A "Magnum Force" is brewing in Canada.
The Russian contingent sees:
"Enemy at the Gates"

And here I was just afraid of a Japanese YH fan running over Nathan Chen in Russia...
Perhaps we need more emojis? People throwing "Rotten Tomatos" at each other?
People wearing helmets hiding in foxholes?
Its getting ugly.... :noshake:

 

[Mrs. P]

This thread is closed. See you all at the Skate Canada thread. Bring your thoughts on the competition and please leave the bickering and name calling here, thanks! Ignore and report as needed.