2017 GP Rostelecom Cup Mens FS

[qwertyskates]

why?
In the case of a fall or major failure, the PCS should be lowered, so the rules were amended from this year.
Even when attaching points other than 10 points, that is a natural assumption.

Falling is also that skating is not good either.
It is impossible to express beautiful music by falling.

We have to agree to disagree and not bore the board anymore. To me, not awarding a perfect 10 score doesn't mean that the judges cannot award a high score for ALL the PCS elements that were well executed, as I have described of Kolyada's performance. You feel that it means he shouldn't receive a high score at all, period. Bear in mind that Yuzu also made serious mistakes that also fit the same rule of not receiving perfect 10, but he still receives high PCS.

We both interpret the rules differently. That is all, peace.

 

[rabbit1234]

We have to agree to disagree and not bore the board anymore. To me, not awarding a perfect 10 score doesn't mean that the judges cannot award a high score for all the PCS elements that were well executed. You feel that it means he shouldn't receive a high score, period. We both interpret the rules differently. That is all, peace.

Discussions should be made based on the idea that rules and rules presuppose as a matter of course.

For example, hanyu's PCS is now nearly three points lower than the world championship at 94.38 because he made a mistake.

hanyu's PCS

FP

89.50 2017 Autumn Classic International
94.38 ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017

Despite being the same music, the same choreography and the same program, the difference of 5 points is because there were many mistakes in Autum.

 

[frida80]

Nathan can't wear light colored top because he suffers from exertion-induced axillary hyperhidrosis.

No ones saying he must wear ligh colors. A red colored top would work well and wouldn’t show of his sweat spots.

 

[Quodli]

That's not what I'm suggesting. The outfit for SP looks good. For FS it looks like something I would wear to work. It's not interesting in any way. It can be fresh and modern and also fashionable. Kevin Aymoz's costume from last season, for instance, is way better because at least it has a point of view. Nathan's FS costume just looks lazy.

I'm 90% sure I read a quote from Nathan saying that he will have a real costume, but it wouldn't be finished for the start of the grand prix series. Hoping that's the case.

 

[Sweet Dream]

I didn't expect that Kolyada's technical merit in the FS would break 100 considering his several falls. It was a very nice performance, big improvement over his showing in Finland. Can he somehow lower the height of his 4Lz jump a bit to better control his body? I don't know whether he can finally deliver this risky element at some key event. Hopefully the bronze medal here can bring him more confidence for the rest of the season.

Congratulations to fighting Yuzuru and rising Nathan as well! Men's competitions are getting more and more interesting & exciting as the Olympics draw near.

 

[Sherlock Marple]

I'm 90% sure I read a quote from Nathan saying that he will have a real costume, but it wouldn't be finished for the start of the grand prix series. Hoping that's the case.

You can find it in this article by Phil Hersh. It's in Item 2.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Not really, it just means no 10 for PCS for a fall. It doesn't say you cannot award 9.80 for example. Kolyada didn't pause even after his falls. Both Yuzu and Nathan's jump mistakes were more disruptive with their messy landings to the flow of the programs, imho.

And the transitions he executed before his third fall were just jaw-dropping

Can we please stop with the "the falls weren't disruptive", "he got right up" rhetoric?

It's a fall. It's messy. Like, he was on his backside. It is the error that people can recognize the most easily - everyone knows a fall is bad. Three of them plus a 3A step out means he failed HALF of his jumping passes. How does half the jumps messed up - 3 majorly so - get 9's?!

If Kolyada fell 10 times in a program but "got right up" after each one, should he still be able to get a 9.75?

With 3 falls he got up to 9.25 for performance. A performance with 3 falls should definitely not score in the 9's for *any* skater. The best skaters (of which I disagree Kolyada is, for now) with 1 fall should be scoring 9.25 at best for performance. With 3 falls the very best skaters should be getting mid-8's.

 

[qwertyskates]

Excuse me, I'll simply refuse to engage in the childish bickering over falls and PCS due to personal biases.

Patrick Chan fell several times too in some of his best performances, but his PCS remained high and close to his rivals who didn't fall. I didn't argue that Chan didn't deserve his PCS, it's because of the SAME reasons - the quality of Chan's other PCS elements.

At least I am CONSISTENT. I don't see all the picthforks over Chan from you. :sarcasm:

Like I said, I refuse to engage in any more of this bickering.

We agree to disagree, and let's stop boring everyone.

This is my final post on the matter. Post all you want but I won't be answering yours or anyone else's posts because I've stated my views and supporting logic.

END. Thank you.

 

[Quodli]

You can find it in this article by Phil Hersh. It's in Item 2.

Ah yes, there it is! Thank you I'm excited to see what they come up with for him, I thought his costumes last season were fantastic.

 

[Mooooo24]

After Hanyu got silver medal at cup of china after that nasty accident when his FS had 5 falls which was ridiculous the ISU changed rules to make sure it didn't happen again . . . as it was an atrocity. First two falls you get 1 point deduction, 3rd and 4th fall you get 2 point deduction. 5th fall is 3 point deduction. So he got a 1 point deduction for the first two falls and a two point deduction for the 3rd fall. So -4

 

[xeyra]

Now that I've finally managed to watch some videos of the men's event, some thoughts on those I've seen so far:

Nathan: Congrats on winning your first GP gold and skating after a pooh rain as if it was nothing! Amazing job, Nathan. I admire his mental fortitude a lot, especially considering he's just 17 year old. As for his FS, there are so many good moments in this program. I already commented how effective the change in music cuts is timed with the first spin but also this program gives Nathan moments to just breathe and feel the music more quietly, to be softer and glide, instead of always chasing for the next quad, which is how the previous FS felt like to me. His upper body movement and choreography is also so much more to my taste here. The two last spins are so well placed in the music and I love the SE entry into the first of them. I still prefer his SP, partly because I love the song, but this is such a nice program for Nathan. Lots of love to the 4Lz3T and 4T2T2Lo, which were both amazing today but please get back into not having two 3As in a program. You know that never goes well. And the 2T curse strikes again.

Yuzuru: Congrats on landing that 4Lz. Landing could have been better but wasn't two footed, that's progress! Some judges went wild on the GOE for it, though. :noshake: Also congrats on maintaining your first GP silver tradition, while actually improving on your condition for it. A 195+ FS at the first GP of the season is pretty good! Now fix your 4Lo. And your landings on your other jumps. And your third combo. And take out that super lame SE after the 3A2T, you barely maintain it and it just has a super shallow edge. Twizzle out of it or something, that'll work better. I'll forgive you the half-assed spiral before the 4T combo because I'm easy, though. Love the new details on the costume and Seimei continues to give me shivers. I do so love this program. I'll need to see it cleaner in order to love it as much as NHK/GPF 2015, however, so get on it!

Bonus: Kudos to the great K&C moments with both of these guys' coaches. Raf was like the embarrassing proud dad and Brian was the encouraging 'you did okay, kiddo, this was already much better than the other times you've bombed the first GP'! dad.

Mikhail: The second half up until the 3Lz fall was really good, and that 4T3T was amazing! The Elvis program is growing a bit on me and you didn't let the two falls interfere too much with the rest of the program. I do feel like the 4Lz has become a bit of a planned fall quad now. It has so much potential to be one of the very best 4Lz in the circuit (I love the height on it) so it's always painful when it isn't landed. Congrats on maintaining your BV, though, unlike Pop/Zayak stars up there. The fact he could have that kind of TES with the falls also proves that when you hit your BV, get your levels and do everything besides the falls well, with good GOE, it shows in the tech score. But, huh, those PCS may have been a tiny bit homecooked for a 3 fall program but I agree with placements and I am starting to get convinced to enjoying his program despite my feelings of tiredness over Elvis, so kudos to Mikhail.

Misha: Eternally robbed of his rightful PCS to me, but that may just be me talking over the tears watching this. So gorgeous. That choreographic sequence is so lovely (judges thought so too for the 2.10 GOE they gave it, yay).

Deniss: Oh, he actually went for the 4T! Pity it didn't quite work out. Or the axels. That last combination spin continues to be amazing. And all the Stéphane glimpses are always a plus.

 

[Zora]

I found myself not enjoying Men figure skating anymore. I just cant process so many mistakes, pops and falls in so many programmes. :confused2:

This. Men's figure skating used to be my favorite discipline and I sadly don't enjoy it anymore. Every now and then, someone will have an outstanding performance, but this is not enough to keep me watching all the programs with countless falls, pops, step-outs and reduced choreography. First goal should always be a clean performance and not rotate as many jumps as possible. I'm tired of skaters attempting programs they can never skate clean or just once a year. I think there must be a huge deduction on PCS for messy programs. Maybe have a purely technical program, so they can try all the quads they want, but keep the free program reasonable with an emphasize on skating clean.

 

[Yatagarasu]

About the fan who cried - she posted on Weibo about it and I'll just copy the translation quickly here: "She's been thinking of SEIMEI for A year and she just saw it, dazzling, right in front of her. Then she burst into tears. Seeing Yuzu managed to complete the 4Ltz, she cried again. Thinking of how many hard work he's done and she just WITNESS how those efforts paid off. She couldn't help herself. She didn't cry for yuzu's lost but for being worried about that he would push himself too much. If so, that would break her heart. That's it. Thanks for all of your concern and tolerating my crying face." It's not really word for word but the gist of it.


Honestly, it's actually really distressing to see so much mockery over her crying. Whether this is something you would do, or have done when young, it doesn't really matter. These are still her genuine feelings and it's really not something to shame her for. We shouldn't shame people for being ... well, human, especially when they are causing literally no harm to anyone else. That's all.

 

[Shayuki]

This. Men's figure skating used to be my favorite discipline and I sadly don't enjoy it anymore. Every now and then, someone will have an outstanding performance, but this is not enough to keep me watching all the programs with countless falls, pops, step-outs and reduced choreography. First goal should always be a clean performance and not rotate as many jumps as possible. I'm tired of skaters attempting programs they can never skate clean or just once a year. I think there must be a huge deduction on PCS for messy programs. Maybe have a purely technical program, so they can try all the quads they want, but keep the free program reasonable with an emphasize on skating clean.

Currently a planned fall on a quad is worth much more than a well performed triple. Make that not be the case anymore and things might change.

 

[xeyra]

Currently a planned fall on a quad is worth much more than a well performed triple. Make that not be the case anymore and things might change.

Depending on the way they'll change GOEs next season (to the -5 to +5 interval), a fall on a quad may be more costly than a good triple, actually. But it'll depend on what exactly the GOE factoring will be (the 10% of the BV for each GOE interval Hersh mentioned a while ago?)

 

[rabbit1234]

This. Men's figure skating used to be my favorite discipline and I sadly don't enjoy it anymore. Every now and then, someone will have an outstanding performance, but this is not enough to keep me watching all the programs with countless falls, pops, step-outs and reduced choreography. First goal should always be a clean performance and not rotate as many jumps as possible. I'm tired of skaters attempting programs they can never skate clean or just once a year. I think there must be a huge deduction on PCS for messy programs. Maybe have a purely technical program, so they can try all the quads they want, but keep the free program reasonable with an emphasize on skating clean.

I do not think so.
Rather, Ladies jumping similar triple jumps are more boring than any men.
Ladies technique has not advanced for 40 years.
The important thing is that there was also a lot of mistakes in the era when people were sliding professionally less difficult in the past.
Let's recall the Sochi Olympic CHAN and Hanyu.

 

[TontoK]

This. Men's figure skating used to be my favorite discipline and I sadly don't enjoy it anymore. Every now and then, someone will have an outstanding performance, but this is not enough to keep me watching all the programs with countless falls, pops, step-outs and reduced choreography. First goal should always be a clean performance and not rotate as many jumps as possible. I'm tired of skaters attempting programs they can never skate clean or just once a year. I think there must be a huge deduction on PCS for messy programs. Maybe have a purely technical program, so they can try all the quads they want, but keep the free program reasonable with an emphasize on skating clean.

Your criticisms about sloppy programs are not unfounded.

But I think the men's competition is where all the excitement is in figure skating. There are probably a half dozen (or more) men who could win the Olympics. Don't you find that kind of wide open competition thrilling?

 

[NAOTMAA]

Currently a planned fall on a quad is worth much more than a well performed triple. Make that not be the case anymore and things might change.

So basically nothing has changed since the Jeffrey "I did the quad even though I knew I was guaranteed to fall but did it anyway for the big points" Buttle days over 10 years ago

 

[MIM]

What a blessed weekend to be submerged in this amazing, beautiful skating!!! I was lucky to watch the ladies live but had to catch up the rest on YT.

Denis Ten: I like the program for him. Not familiar with the music, though. I am carefully watching the collaboration between Denis and David. Denis can own the music as if it were his own and merges it with his movement into one. Wilson is good at building a program toward the climax. I adore the way Wilson balances this dramatic music with movements ; emoting with simple movement to the highlight(high pitch vocal) of the music vs. busy movements to slower or empty(less vocal) parts of music. It feels like breathing. The choreographic sequence has nice new and old Denis signature moves the bird-looking spiral and a headless twizzle ) The finale is as explosive as you can get. Happy to see Denis smile at the KnC. Not perfect, but I am glad he has promising start to the season with beautiful programs and a great coach.

Daniel Samohin: Along with Denis and his compatriot, Bychenko, he will be ready at the end of the season. Daniel skates wild and big, which is his charm when done right.

Nam: sigh... I don't think he knows how to improve his skating at this point. He has all the best team around him, but maybe he needs more time to figure out who he is first. His lack of presentation can be due to his lack of skating skills.(but there are lots of skaters showing great personalities with limited SS) His jumps are too small(But he lands them solid).....
Positive things ; he was not notably slow this time. And he got a solid 3A back!!!!

Misha: what a composure he has. He skates in a calming, focused, intricate manner, which goes so well with his music. I could not believe this is the first performance right after the 6 min grilling warm-up (the mini quad war between Nathan and Yuzu). I have new respect for Misha; surpassing any distraction that does not have anything to do with him!!!
His music and costume(the top) reminds me of Yuna's gala at the Vancouver Olympics. He will be received extremely well by emotional and nostalgic Korean audience. I think he has genius strategy to arm himself with this judge-friendly as well as audience-friendly program. I am thrilled because I cheer for him to collect every score he deserves to win.

Mikhail: I am not a fan of the music cut/mix. it is not well thought out. I see no relation to each cut, but juxtaposed seemingly "popular" songs. Sigh... His team is not up to the level his talent calls for. I wish he got matched to a better choreographer who sees his strength (beautiful body line, intricate edge work, perfect jump technique) and gives him a better packaging he deserves. What a waste of talent... At least, he smiled at the end of the program. a Massive 4T3T combo almost at the end of the program.

Daniell: Even TAT was praising his showmanship ( she sounds like ... right?) and engaging performance. He is the only one truly enjoyed the performance without feeling the pressure in the entire event (except for Caro)

Aliev: Nice attempt on 4Lz!!!! But his stamina could not back up the rest of the program. I understand his team tries to package him as a classical and lyrical dancer. Josh Grovan's song last year and "to build a home" this year screams what kind of skater he wants to be seen. But I think this free program music is too far fetched. Because the song itself is very slow and empty. The music was successful when the drama is created by P/C's magical skating and connection. It feels dry and empty when it was skated by a single skater, who has not developed his style or charisma yet. Having said that, maybe he has something special. Even though he could not control his jumps in the second half, he tried to stay in the music.

_____________________________________________________-

Yuzu: What a fighter!!!!! He literally was flying on his first successful 4Lz. the distance and height he covers are magnificent!!! This LP is worth repeating and I agree with his decision here. I was in awe.
Nathan: My heartbeat stayed super high watching these two!! They are not afraid of challenges. Nathan did not budge regardless how well Yuzu skated and how many poohs his fans threw into the rink; his presentation was on point and his jumps were sharp and clean. And Neither of them fell!!!!!

They were both not perfect but cannot be perfect at this time of the season. Feisty!!!
I think Yuzu deserves to win the Free program. and Nathan overall. Awesome Job guys!! Bravo!

 

[TontoK]

So basically nothing has changed since the Jeffrey "I did the quad even though I knew I was guaranteed to fall but did it for the big points" Buttle days over 10 years ago

I think a very big difference is that these men don't "plan" to fall.

They've landed the jumps. Their plan is to land them every time.