2017 GP Skate America Ladies FS

[quadrupleaxel15]

This season her body of work is not near what it was in 2014. If she is 4th at nationals, she needs to stay home.



These are precisely the reasons why Ashley has been held up for so long with lackluster performances. The sponsors and fed don't want to see the writing on the wall.

She has not been the most successful American this GP season. She got a bronze in the weakest field in the GP but has only the 4th highest point total among American ladies. Bradie has a bronze now as well with a 200+ score so she has by far been the most successful American in the GP.

We know it now, we didn't know it by then. And it wouldn't have made any difference since she was going to skate at this event already & with no chance at the final.

Ashley is still skating because she is not a quitter and nobody else were able to take her spots. There are a lot of talented ladies in the States who just couldn't and cannot deliver when it matters. I don't think the Fed loves her extremely, I even feel that she is not really loved when I observe Tara being able to appear rude towards her openly. But at the end of the day she just keeps doing what she does and Fed has to keep supporting her because there is nobody else to do the job when it matters.

I always thought she would continue one more season after the Olympics but after seeing her almost crying after what happened, I am thinking that this might really be her last season. I really hope that she wins the Nationals fair and square as she wants, goes to the Olympics and has a lot fun, enjoy the spotlight, has great experiences and ends her career with a smile. This was the first time I have seen her look and sound so vulnerable and it is definitely not something I would want to see again.

 

[largeman]

Disney Channel original movie idea: Two young rivals and training mates - one is better than the other, but they've always been close. Then the better one is surpassed by her training mate, and as they grow up, suddenly her training mate shoots up to the top of the field, wins the World Championships, and becomes unbeatable. The now-struggling one finds a new coach, continues to struggle, ends up basically written off by everyone around her. Then, she's taken under the wing of a former superstar, a rookie coach, and has to claw her way back up to the top, bit by bit, as the competition just keeps getting more and more difficult. Then one day she finally beats her old rival. They hug, and then everyone cries.

Great storyline! I wonder what gave you the inspiration?

I would actually pay money to watch this made-for-TV after school special, provided that there's also an Asian character in it who used to be constantly beaten in competition by those two when she was starting out. Despite the intense rivalry, she becomes BFFs with the world champion and they do fun stuff together like karaoke. This Asian girl turns out to be a late bloomer and matures into a magnificent skater technically and artistically. She has the killer instinct of a spy and the softness of a human. Oh and she wins an Olympic medal. And then everyone cries.

 

[shyne]

I could have understood this in the past (actually no because this is supposed to be a sport but whatever) since she was Japan's only credible contender in ladies, but now that they have Wakaba, Mai, Kaori,...

Other than her small/under-rotated jumps, everything else about Satoko is sublime. Her spins, flow on ice, edge work, ability to generate speed with no effort... I really enjoyed her performance, but I agree with you, Japan's field is so deep, they should not promote someone with so many flaws in her jumps.

 

[russianfan]

I finally had a time to watch FS and.. it's just beyond my comprehension how Satoko haven't got even a single underrotation call there... her prerotation sometimes is just ridiculous - look how she does a flip! She hasn't even started a proper takeoff but already did almost 180 degrees of prerotation(if not more, because its hard to see even with 0.25x speed, so i understand when judges can't see it in realtime, but don't they have replays?). And even with this prerotation that flip was borderline (if we consider her takeoff point as where she has started her prerotation, which is obviously wrong). And she did almost the same at least with 3Lo and 3S. What's funny is that there even was some double jump which looked borderline underrotated
Kaori was amazing there and a clear winner to me. Her reaction to her scores is awesome
At this moment it seems like top 2 japanese ladies are Wakaba and Kaori.

 

[klutzy]

I think she should have been, if not Ashley. She had no record to speak of. I hope the USFSA makes Ashley earn it this time. If she is 4th again, she should not be on the team.

Polina had done well as a junior and, again, she was second, not third. Mirai Nagasu, who was bumped by Wagner hasn't had the kind of career that would make it clear that there was a "mistake". Nagasu has hardly had the kind of international career that makes me think she would have done better than Polina Edmunds at the Olympics. At her last run at Worlds (where she replaced an injured Edmunds) she was tenth on home turf.

Despite a growth spurt and a year off because of an injury, Edmunds has managed to win silver at Nationals a second time (and first in the short) and first at the 4 CC. Given how well Edmunds was skating prior to her injury, I think her placement at Worlds would have been better than Mirai's.

I get that a lot of people don't like Edmunds style, but she was hardly a competitive flash in the pan and she did well for the "third" skater at the Olympics.

If Bradie continues to be solid, then I think she's a good bet for the Olympics. We need someone who can go out and just compete.

 

[irriya]

I'm so happy for Kaori and Satoko! They're my favorite here. and they've done such a good job! Met Kaori at the hotel, and she was so nice! And her coach too! I haven't met Mai face to face yet, but I'm sure she's lovely too. They're such a nice group of people! Wish them best in Japan National:agree:

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

As soon as this event ended all of the State of (insert nation here) Ladies 2017-18 threads became a train wreck.

Way to go Skate America

 

[jenaj]

Polina had done well as a junior and, again, she was second, not third. Mirai Nagasu, who was bumped by Wagner hasn't had the kind of career that would make it clear that there was a "mistake". Nagasu has hardly had the kind of international career that makes me think she would have done better than Polina Edmunds at the Olympics. At her last run at Worlds (where she replaced an injured Edmunds) she was tenth on home turf.

Despite a growth spurt and a year off because of an injury, Edmunds has managed to win silver at Nationals a second time (and first in the short) and first at the 4 CC. Given how well Edmunds was skating prior to her injury, I think her placement at Worlds would have been better than Mirai's.

I get that a lot of people don't like Edmunds style, but she was hardly a competitive flash in the pan and she did well for the "third" skater at the Olympics.

If Bradie continues to be solid, then I think she's a good bet for the Olympics. We need someone who can go out and just compete.

Jason was second at Nationals in 2014 and they didn't send him to Worlds. They sent Max, the bronze medalist. So placement at Nationals is not determinative. Polina won 4CC's with a score lower than Mirai's silver medal the following year. But the point is, she had no senior record at all when she was chosen for the Olympic team. If they were going to bump someone for 4th place Ashley, it should have been Polina. MIrai had had her ups and downs but she had won a Grand Prix medal that season and had won other senior international medals in the past.

 

[jenaj]

Other than her small/under-rotated jumps, everything else about Satoko is sublime. Her spins, flow on ice, edge work, ability to generate speed with no effort... I really enjoyed her performance, but I agree with you, Japan's field is so deep, they should not promote someone with so many flaws in her jumps.

They shouldn't "promote" anyone. Let the competitive results speak for themselves. Satoko is a World silver medalist, by the way.

 

[Globetrotter]

I finally had a time to watch FS and.. it's just beyond my comprehension how Satoko haven't got even a single underrotation call there... her prerotation sometimes is just ridiculous - look how she does a flip! She hasn't even started a proper takeoff but already did almost 180 degrees of prerotation(if not more, because its hard to see even with 0.25x speed, so i understand when judges can't see it in realtime, but don't they have replays?). And even with this prerotation that flip was borderline (if we consider her takeoff point as where she has started her prerotation, which is obviously wrong). And she did almost the same at least with 3Lo and 3S. What's funny is that there even was some double jump which looked borderline underrotated
Kaori was amazing there and a clear winner to me. Her reaction to her scores is awesome
At this moment it seems like top 2 japanese ladies are Wakaba and Kaori.

You can blame a very lenient tech panel for this. Satoko does not and cannot give her own calls. I will also personally prefer a tough panel who will thus penalize those with mediocre to bad techniques and reward those who work to fully rotate everything. Unfortunately, the current ISU rules on jump rotations focus on jump landings and how much rotations were completed upon landing on ice. Little is mentioned on pre-rotations and when the rotation count starts. In addition, they can’t watch and review in slo-mo and they only had one camera angle to watch things. It’s not ideal I get it but that is the current reality with all the inadequacy. With a lenient panel in SA, everybody benefitted and not just Satoko - those who got the < calls were those whose jumps were so obviously and blatantly UR that no benefit of the doubt could be applied.

If the pre-rotation thing is applied as you are so strongly advocating, be careful what you wish. Skaters like Zhenya, Polina T (backend 3T) and several of the top guys like Shoma (4F, Lz) and Javi (Lz) will get completely dinged on their jumps for pre-rotations and we can expect to wait much longer for the scores as every TP fine combs through all slo-mo and judges scramble to adjust GOEs.

And us fans have less controversy to hue and cry about on GS

 

[Bcash]

You can blame a very lenient tech panel for this. Satoko does not and cannot give her own calls. I will also personally prefer a tough panel who will thus penalize those with mediocre to bad techniques and reward those who work to fully rotate everything. Unfortunately, the current ISU rules on jump rotations focus on jump landings and how much rotations were completed upon landing on ice. Little is mentioned on pre-rotations and when the rotation count starts. In addition, they can’t watch and review in slo-mo and they only had one camera angle to watch things. It’s not ideal I get it but that is the current reality with all the inadequacy. With a lenient panel in SA, everybody benefitted and not just Satoko - those who got the < calls were those whose jumps were so obviously and blatantly UR that no benefit of the doubt could be applied.


If the pre-rotation thing is applied as you are so strongly advocating, be careful what you wish. Skaters like Zhenya, Polina T (backend 3T) and several of the top guys like Shoma (4F, Lz) and Javi (Lz) will get completely dinged on their jumps for pre-rotations and we can expect to wait much longer for the scores as every TP fine combs through all slo-mo and judges scramble to adjust GOEs.

And us fans have less controversy to hue and cry about on GS

Really? Javi prerotates his 3Lz?

 

[Globetrotter]

No one refuses Miyahara’s non-jumps elements. But you can not deny the fact she is the most benefited when tech panel doesn’t do much. It’s unfair to other ladies who have been scrutinized over their UR many years like Asada, Nagasu and etc... they automatically got called < and << almost every time they walked on the ice. Miyahara’s jumps were not better but she kept walking away from the < and <<.
It’s ridiculous when tech panel affects the podium either because of their leniency or their zealousness.

I guess nobody is happy with a very forgiving TP as Satoko who has the most borderline jumps get an apparently bigger free ride. Note that everyone benefits although some, to a lesser extent with a lenient TP. Then when you have an overzealous TP like in Skate Canada, we have the same cries that the fave skaters got unfairly dinged and that the panel benefited say Kaetlyn Osmond overly - without acknowledging that Kaetlyn’s technique on rotations were largely solid and not prone to < or cheated jumps although she may step out or splat. Asada in her earlier years had a tendency to hook her landings and Mirai continues to do so as their jump techniques were iffy and they didn’t rotate fast enough to make it difficult for the caller to not give the benefit of the doubt. We win some and we lose some either way.

Personally, I will rather have a consistently overzealous TP as it will force skaters and coaches to focus on proper technique and not engage in easier getaway tricks to score GOE and BVs. Right now as the rules are applied, the ones with solid jumps not prone to UR (e.g. Liza Tuks, Polina T and Karen Chen on 3Lz) are not rewarded and differentiated enough.

 

[Figure 8's]

Here is the mentioned incident https://youtu.be/EcRqOvHiJ8w

He had a very rough skate, fell and injured his knee. But he came in 2nd so he did not withdraw.

 

[mermaidfestavol3]

Great storyline! I wonder what gave you the inspiration?

I would actually pay money to watch this made-for-TV after school special, provided that there's also an Asian character in it who used to be constantly beaten in competition by those two when she was starting out. Despite the intense rivalry, she becomes BFFs with the world champion and they do fun stuff together like karaoke. This Asian girl turns out to be a late bloomer and matures into a magnificent skater technically and artistically. She has the killer instinct of a spy and the softness of a human. Oh and she wins an Olympic medal. And then everyone cries.

Killer instinct of a spy...softness of a human.... Are you describing Wakaba's FS by any chance?

 

[Icey]

The fictional character Cinderella is 19. Bradie is 19, how appropriate.

 

[meem]

Well, well, well...someone needs to show a little compassion for skaters who have to withdraw, even when they're out there on the ice, mid-skate. Johnny has always been a bit of a drama queen so he needs to quit casting doubt on current skaters. That was quite a performance, back in the day.

Here is the mentioned incident https://youtu.be/EcRqOvHiJ8w

 

[labgoat]

The fictional character Cinderella is 19. Bradie is 19, how appropriate.

Cinderella is at her debutant ball. I also don't understand why Angela Nikodinov's Cinderella, which was marvelous and not seen as immature, and Bradies, which is equally lovely and charming, are seen in so differently. To me they are are the same theme, two girls entering young adulthood at a great ball. Like Mai Mihara like last year, it is a snapshot of a moment in time - a young girl at a big dance. What bigger dance than the Olympic trials.

 

[Icey]

Dick Button won't even watch figure skating any more. He said it isn't the skaters' fault, but it's the rules.

Yet, last week he was giving advice to Hanyu.

 

[Icey]

why would special consideration be given to Satoko?

 

[ks777]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7OCljwGGGM Here is another version of Johnny's drama.

I would love to know what uncle Dick and Peggy Fleming have to say about the current skaters, especially Satoko, Marin, Higuchi, Medvedeva, Hanyu, Uno and the US skaters.