2018 Canadian Nationals Senior Women - SP

[Lester]

Great skate from Gabby, with so much character
I am curious though, on the take off for the Lutz her leg seemed to wrap a bit around the other. Is this a bad thing or is it normal?

 

[[email protected]]

Yes, I'm paranoid of those Russians. They're coming!

Those are all your opinions. Why is it 5 points in the short and 10 in the free? And if I were to use your made-up standard anyway, Gabby's short at Nationals is less than 5 points greater than her international PB. Why the comment about her egregious over score if it's within your range?

"egregious" is your word - in fact I have learned it from you. Live and learn as they say. I used "big time overscoring" for Sotskova at RN and "ridiculous" for those ubers who do not shy to go to "Russian threads" and write en masse in competition threads about "lol scores of Russian skaters".

5 points SP markup to the best international score ever looks "egregious" to me especially when talking about an experienced senior skater. Daleman's best ever is 72.70 so it is 5 points lower and when she got it her 3T-3T was perfect with all +3s. This time her second landing was visually imperfect.

 

[[email protected]]

But several of you are commenting on your outrage over the supposed audacity of various Canadian commentators for being pro-Canadian and taking shots at skaters from other countries. So riddle me this: why is it ok for Tarasova to do the same thing, justifying this behaviour by pointing out that she has her own nationalistic biases, but Carol Lane, David Pelletier, Kurt Browning, Tracy Wilson, the lady commentating on the stream today (Was that Tracy? I’m sorry, I wasn’t sure who she was), etc, are horrible people for doing the same?

It’s a double standard.

As I said before I do not specifically care about what commentators say and I do find Tarasova annoying because I don't need her naming me all the jumps and commenting on skaters while they skate. On the other hand, those who did not skate (my wife) say it's helpful what she does - catering to the general public who do not feel distracted.

But you cannot compare Tarasova's approach with some of the Canadian commentators. She does not care whom to attack. There is no xenophobic flavor in her words - she is just brutally open saying what she thinks. And she can be rude to anyone. That how she publicly named Moscow authorities for a stadium demolition: "brainless cattle with no memory and respect to the history". After that she complained that she was no longer welcome on TV.

So, I don't think that in her case it's double standard. But I do remember listening to one Russian men commentator who was quite xenophobic in terms of "Russia against the world". And I wished that it was not heard by the international audience.

 

[Skater Boy]

I was wondering about that second 3T of Gabby's but nice power, distance and height.

I still hope Kaetlyn comes back. It will be hard to see how Gabby is really doing as she has pneumonia. She has not shown anything until now she is a medal threat on the world/Olympic level. She may have waited too long as the judges have forgotten she is a world bronze medallist.

 

[koatcue]

"egregious" is your word - in fact I have learned it from you. Live and learn as they say. I used "big time overscoring" for Sotskova at RN and "ridiculous" for those ubers who do not shy to go to "Russian threads" and write en masse in competition threads about "lol scores of Russian skaters".

5 points SP markup to the best international score ever looks "egregious" to me especially when talking about an experienced senior skater. Daleman's best ever is 72.70 so it is 5 points lower and when she got it her 3T-3T was perfect with all +3s. This time her second landing was visually imperfect.

I don't know, I'm fine with that, as the marks tend to change And grow throughout a season. And besides it's nationals, so I suggest not giving too much thought to it - the main competition is ahead, that's what matters.

Loved Gabrielle's her 3t-3t! Kept internally comparing it to Adelina's combination, though. I think that Carmen is very symbolic for Daleman. It's almost like Adelina's winning path is her landmark. The change of dress is nice too

 

[Mango]

I'm going to post the full exchange for those people who haven't watched the video.

While watching Kaetlyn Osmond's SP highlights

Debbi Wilkes: "That's something about our Canadian women in comparison to some of the other leaders...leading women in the world. Our competitors move. They cover the ice. I often feel some of the European skaters are like little mice...kind of moving around the ice surface. And I mean, this is skating, to me. Power. Speed."

Ted Barton laughs

Debbi: "It's easier to control stuff if you're going slow."

Ted: "A mouse is really small. I mean that does not move quickly, Deb. I mean you gotta come up on the rodent category and give them a little bit more credit."

Debbi is laughing

Debbi: "Well, they're great skaters, no doubt."

Ted: "Yes, they are."

Debbi: "But I prefer this. You know...blasting across the ice."

Ted: "And it's one of the great things that our two girls...or all our girls and even Alaine she's very fast --ladies, ladies!"

Debbi: "No girls!"

Ted: "Oh my gosh. Ok, one day I'll figure it out."

Debbi: "I did give him a slap. I want everybody to know."

Ted: "Yeah, right across the chops."

Debbi laughs

Ted: "Our ladies. They are all pretty fast. It's improving."

Debbi: "It's been a fantastic event."

Ted: "Yeah, it's really great. A lot of fun."

---------

Out of context, it harsh criticism. In context it's an opinion that's followed up by praise. And unrelated jokes.

 

[charlotte14]

I'm going to post the full exchange for those people who haven't watched the video.

While watching Kaetlyn Osmond's SP highlights

Debbi Wilkes: "That's something about our Canadian women in comparison to some of the other leaders...leading women in the world. Our competitors move. They cover the ice. I often feel some of the European skaters are like little mice...kind of moving around the ice surface. And I mean, this is skating, to me. Power. Speed."

Ted Barton laughs

Debbi: "It's easier to control stuff if you're going slow."

Ted: "A mouse is really small. I mean that does not move quickly, Deb. I mean you gotta come up on the rodent category and give them a little bit more credit."

Debbi is laughing

Debbi: "Well, they're great skaters, no doubt."

Ted: "Yes, they are."

Debbi: "But I prefer this. You know...blasting across the ice."

Ted: "And it's one of the great things that our two girls...or all our girls and even Alaine she's very fast --ladies, ladies!"

Debbi: "No girls!"

Ted: "Oh my gosh. Ok, one day I'll figure it out."

Debbi: "I did give him a slap. I want everybody to know."

Ted: "Yeah, right across the chops."

Debbi laughs

Ted: "Our ladies. They are all pretty fast. It's improving."

Debbi: "It's been a fantastic event."

Ted: "Yeah, it's really great. A lot of fun."

---------

Out of context, it harsh criticism. In context it's an opinion that's followed up by praise. And unrelated jokes.

Reading the whole thing makes it less offensive. But still Carolina Kostner is no rodent. She's tall like most men and faster than many of them. I bet this comment was aimed at the Russian little girls mostly.

 

[Anni234]

Oh poor Alaine. Is she not with Orser anymore?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Reading the whole thing makes it less offensive. But still Carolina Kostner is no rodent. She's tall like most men and faster than many of them. I bet this comment was aimed at the Russian little girls mostly.

I just brushed it off as being exuberant homer stuff. She had a lot of positive things to say about the girls in the earlier groups who were noticably slow and scoring in the 40’s. Her first instinct was to compliment them and rightfully so I think. We all know what she was doing with the name calling.....probably best to just ignore her there.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Oh poor Alaine. Is she not with Orser anymore?

She looked fine in the warmups too....at least from what I saw :confused2:

It’s really frustrating and I can’t just stop with the love I have always had for her

 

[QueenOfTheRoad]

I'm going to post the full exchange for those people who haven't watched the video.

While watching Kaetlyn Osmond's SP highlights

Debbi Wilkes: "That's something about our Canadian women in comparison to some of the other leaders...leading women in the world. Our competitors move. They cover the ice. I often feel some of the European skaters are like little mice...kind of moving around the ice surface. And I mean, this is skating, to me. Power. Speed."

Ted Barton laughs

Debbi: "It's easier to control stuff if you're going slow."

Ted: "A mouse is really small. I mean that does not move quickly, Deb. I mean you gotta come up on the rodent category and give them a little bit more credit."

Debbi is laughing

Debbi: "Well, they're great skaters, no doubt."

Ted: "Yes, they are."

Debbi: "But I prefer this. You know...blasting across the ice."

Ted: "And it's one of the great things that our two girls...or all our girls and even Alaine she's very fast --ladies, ladies!"

Debbi: "No girls!"

Ted: "Oh my gosh. Ok, one day I'll figure it out."

Debbi: "I did give him a slap. I want everybody to know."

Ted: "Yeah, right across the chops."

Debbi laughs

Ted: "Our ladies. They are all pretty fast. It's improving."

Debbi: "It's been a fantastic event."

Ted: "Yeah, it's really great. A lot of fun."

---------

Out of context, it harsh criticism. In context it's an opinion that's followed up by praise. And unrelated jokes.

I find this discussion incredibly xenophobic. Mice and rodents are seen as a pest. Comparing young ladies from other countries with a pest is more than not good. I find nothing amusing here and it shows how unconscious in some Western-minds is the xenophobia towards the East-European. I have to battle with it as an East-European in an Western country and is not amusing, funny or harmless. It is degrading and upsetting. Like we have always to show 150% better than the other to be even acknowledged, but oh no! never be seen as equal with the mighty Western.

 

[Procrastinator]

I find this discussion incredibly xenophobic. Mice and rodents are seen as a pest. Comparing young ladies from other countries with a pest is more than not good. I find nothing amusing here and it shows how unconscious in some Western-minds is the xenophobia towards the East-European. I have to battle with it as an East-European in an Western country and is not amusing, funny or harmless. It is degrading and upsetting. Like we have always to show 150% better than the other to be even acknowledged, but oh no! never be seen as equal with the mighty Western.

When has that EVER been the case in figure skating?

 

[QueenOfTheRoad]

As i put "we", isn't it really clearly that i speak about my experience and xenophobia? And how much are the East-European figure skater wins accepted by the western publicum, because i was not speaking about the judges here? The abuse toward some skaters i have read in some skating forums, instagram and chats when they won something....

 

[SpiffySpiders]

Ok, I'm not interested in forum drama in the slightest but I'm seeing folks reading something different into a statement than I think was intended. Maybe it's more common to the part of Canada I hail from, but comparison to a "mouse" means timid or not making a 'wow' impression. Debbi Wilkes was saying that, for her, the big jumps and fast skating - less controlled, more go for broke - favoured in Canada makes skaters who jump smaller but consistently and concentrate on slower but intricate footwork seem, to her, apprehensive, not risking it all on a huge leap into the air, not careening across the ice at breakneck speed, ergo timid, mouse-like. It's not intended to call European skaters pests. And of course there are European skaters who are big jumpers, and Canadian skaters who are not, but she's commenting on a general style, not individuals.

Every skating federation has a favoured style. Some prefer soft landings and gentle gliding while others admire storytelling on ice. Some favour the athletic side over the artistic or vice versa. No one skating style suits every audience, or every commentator, and that's perfectly ok.

 

[QueenOfTheRoad]

So, comparing people with mice and rodents is ok in Canada? Can i try it with everyone and be looked as such a positive, ok thing to do?

If you are coming in my original East-European country DON't do it. Like yeah, comparing with mice might get you still just a few high rised browns (yeah, is such a nice thing to compare a shy woman with a mice and a woman would be soooooo happy to be compared with one, you will get so many points, naturally negative), but comparing with rodents?

 

[yoloaxel]

Debbi Wilkes: "That's something about our Canadian women in comparison to some of the other leaders...leading women in the world. Our competitors move. They cover the ice. I often feel some of the European skaters are like little mice...kind of moving around the ice surface. And I mean, this is skating, to me. Power. Speed."

Ted Barton laughs

Debbi: "It's easier to control stuff if you're going slow."

Ted: "A mouse is really small. I mean that does not move quickly, Deb. I mean you gotta come up on the rodent category and give them a little bit more credit."

Debbi is laughing

Debbi: "Well, they're great skaters, no doubt."

Ted: "Yes, they are."

Debbi: "But I prefer this. You know...blasting across the ice."

Tbh, I don't think reading it in context makes it sound that much better. Kostner is fast, Medvedeva is fast and she manages to be fast while doing lots of complex transitions.

I understand that they have a preference for fast skaters but there's really no need to compare the competition to rodents, imo.

 

[LiamForeman]

I remember after 2002 Olympics that Irina Slutskaya called Sarah Hughes a "gray mouse". LOL.

 

[QueenOfTheRoad]

And i bet Sarah Hughes and her fans were ok with it and the fans never complained (also i have never found Sarah shy? )

 

[TerpsichoreFS]

I'd love for lady commentator to call Kostner a mouse-like skater to her face. Everybody knows she really meant Russians and used 'European' as a euphemism. If you're going to criticize a group of people out of the blue, have the guts to call it like it is.

But Gabby! Maybe her good skate rattled kaetlyn? I liked her sp enough to make abstraction of the music. Love her dress, though it unfortunately seems like the bottom is a little too small? She was adjusting it pre performance and it was kinda slipping in at the end. It made me feel uncomfortable for her

 

[Sugarpova]

ZOMG just saw the results table (not the performances yet)

super duper happy for Gabby!!:eekn::hap93:

as for the 'commentary' lmao I dont expect anything pleasant from Canadian commentators & judging by other commentators belittling our sportsmen like already being said bad things about Zagi & many many more
Im becoming immune to that

Good thing we dont hear much bashing of the western skaters in our commentary/