2018 Four Continents Mens SP

[Sabrina]

I've watched most of the men, so I still think Jason should be after Nam, and the Chinese guy, whose name I can't remember right now. I love Jason a lot, but this is a sport, not only art. I agree it is very difficult to judge the artistic part. I fully agree Jason has great spins and steps, but the connection with jumps is better at least in some top skaters (Shoama or Yuzuru). I would place Jason 4th only if that Axel is perfect. In guys without quads I love Misha Ge. I was not sure about that negative GOE for a spin. Jump wise Misha was better than Jason, and as for the artistic part, both are amazing. Misha gets the edge, only because he is his own choreographer.

 

[cell]

So why is Misha only in 8th place? I didn't see major errors although i didn't see what the others in 4-8th places did (off to watch)

 

[Mrs. P]

I've watched most of the men, so I still think Jason should be after Nam, and the Chinese guy, whose name I can't remember right now. I love Jason a lot, but this is a sport, not only art. I agree it is very difficult to judge the artistic part. I fully agree Jason has great spins and steps, but the connection with jumps is better at least in some top skaters (Shoama or Yuzuru). I would place Jason 4th only if that Axel is perfect. In guys without quads I love Misha Ge. I was not sure about that negative GOE for a spin. Jump wise Misha was better than Jason, and as for the artistic part, both are amazing. Misha gets the edge, only because he is his own choreographer.

Thanks for your thoughts! My thoughts in response:

1.) You're thinking Han Yan. But Han fell and underrotated his quad toe -- so he lost a lot of points there.
2.) FWIW, Jason's scored 93 with a perfect quadless skate at Worlds last year.
3.) Figure skating is a multi-faceted sport. PCS is not "just artistry" it also looks at the technical aspects of skating. Having seen Nam, Jason and Misha all in person at some point, it's likely that Jason was given higher PCS marks because he has better skating skills and is faster. (Though Nam had notable improvement) Not to mention that he does a lot of stuff between the technical elements.
4.) This was a REALLY tough technical caller on spins and steps! I haven't added it up, but it's likely that whatever advantage Nam and Misha had on jumps, Jason destroyed because he got the level 4 steps + spins + high GOE.

 

[karne]

My thoughts this morning are that Max should have been ahead of Han. Whatever else happened, Han's really messy fall was very disruptive to his program. Max was clean and his program flowed nicely. He had no visible errors.

I also take issue with poor Max only barely being ahead of Nam. He was so much better than Nam.

 

[el henry]

I love me some Misha (although admittedly I love me some Jason most of all), but we need to be a little real here. Misha is nowhere, and I mean nowhere, as fast as Jason, and his program does not have the complexity that Jason’s does. He does have charm and performance value which is why I love me some Misha.

As a fangirl of the original unique choreographer, Toller, I don’t think skaters should get bonus points for performing their own choreo either. It can be more difficult to skate someone else’s choreo. That said, when he finally does absolutely and for good retire and stop playing with us, Misha will not lack for choreo gigs and that will be great.

And Jason boffed the 3A. And he was penalized for it. Does that mean he gets penalized for step sequence and spins and grade of execution on everything else because he boffed the 3A? I’ll answer that. No.

And I am so glad to see Donovan Carrillo getting some love and advancing, I paid special attention to him this past summer at Liberty because @StitchMonkey told me to, and she was right.:agree:

And what happened to poor Grant:sad21: I haven’t watched....

 

[Mrs. P]

Did some quick math.

Nam's jump portion of TES was 31.35 compared to 25.84 for Jason. Nam got a higher combo (14.91 vs. 11.10) and triple axel (9.64 and 6.64) but Jason got the higher 3Z (8.1 vs. 6.8). Nam's margin: 5.51.

Jason's spin/steps score (all level 4; tons of GOE) was 18.97 compared to 14.20 for Nam (who got all but one element level 3, and a level 4 spin). Jason's margin: 4.47.

That's why Jason ended up with TES just below Nam's (less than point).

--
And Misha...

Misha landed a better 3A than Jason. He earned 9.36 vs. 6.64. But Misha got a (!) on his 3Z-3T so that reduced his GOE, he got -GOE and scored 10 points vs. 11.10 for Jason's 3F-3T. Jason's solo jump scored higher as well, 8.1 for his 3Z vs. 6.53 for the 3F.

And Misha, as I noted during the PBP earlier today, seem quite tired. I've seen him do a much more animated performance and dive deeper in his edges. He may have skated clean, but he let a few things go (like that spin).

 

[cell]

I love me some Misha (although admittedly I love me some Jason most of all), but we need to be a little real here. Misha is nowhere, and I mean nowhere, as fast as Jason, and his program does not have the complexity that Jason’s does. He does have charm and performance value which is why I love me some Misha.

Misha also skates to slower music though...

 

[karne]

Misha also skates to slower music though...

It wouldn't matter. Misha is not a fast skater.

He also stalks the heck out of the 3A which bugs me.

 

[cell]

I notice the difference seems to be mainly in the technical score? About 4 points loss

 

[cell]

It wouldn't matter. Misha is not a fast skater.

He also stalks the heck out of the 3A which bugs me.

Honestly I never noticed that he was *that* slow on TV. I don't think he is fast, but people talk about him like he skates as slow as Jennifer Robinson or something.

Anyways, speed is just one aspect of SS.

 

[el henry]

Misha also skates to slower music though...

Certainly in the SP, you are right. But overall, Misha is simply not as fast as Jason, in slow or fast programs.

Also, my speculation is that Misha is trying to not injure himself, which I completely and totally agree with. He essentially stated on social media this year, eff it, I’m not going to injure myself trying to do quads (he was much suaver about it). I don’t blame him, and I also completely agree with that decision.

 

[icekiwi]

Well done, Boyang Spidey Man on that spectacular SP.

So much improved since Skate America. Even the music now has added drumbeats and he can perform according to the accents.

The 'Wu Shu' (Chinese Martial arts) moves right at the beginning really sets the tone for the rest of the program. Love the Wu Shu fingers, hands and choreographic movements throughout. So much more expression from Boyang. This is a real transformation and the SP now is looking very convincing. 5 months ago, it was lacking choreographic touches and conviction to the 'Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon' theme. After seeing it first time at Skate America, I was wanting Boyang to bring back Spiderman but he proves he can skate to solemn/moving music as well. This guy is full of surprises, just makes you love him more. What happened to the hair? all waxed up, like that too!

Should be ahead of Shoma by 1-2 points, should have scored 103. If Nathan Chen could score 103 with his SP and with slightly inferior jumps, this deserves better. Anyway will take the 100 points for now.

 

[cell]

Certainly in the SP, you are right. But overall, Misha is simply not as fast as Jason, in slow or fast programs.

Also, my speculation is that Misha is trying to not injure himself, which I completely and totally agree with. He essentially stated on social media this year, eff it, I’m not going to injure myself trying to do quads (he was much suaver about it). I don’t blame him, and I also completely agree with that decision.

This doesn't seem to be where he lost the points though. It's in the technical score seemingly? Although not entirely sure why Han Yan has the same PCS essentially.

 

[el henry]

This doesn't seem to be where he lost the points though. It's in the technical score seemingly? Although not entirely sure why Han Yan has the same PCS essentially.

I am afraid someone with much better math and scoring skills will need to be explain that. I’m a “big picture” kind of gal.

 

[karne]

Here are some takeaways that I've been musing on this morning (sometimes it's easier to do this in the morning after):

- Boyang should absolutely be leading and it shouldn't be by just a few tenths, either.

- Max should have been ahead of Han and further ahead of Nam.

- Brendan wuzrobbed of at least five points. If he had a bigger flag next to his name I've no doubt he still would have scored low-mid 80s for that. Two rotated quads and a clean 3A, guys.

- Mark should have been given the flip. His toe didn't go in and he didn't attempt actual takeoff. Jackie posted the rule this morning and I agree he was stiffed here. If he'd been given it, he likely would have made the cut.

- Andrew is still a beast no matter which way you slice it.

 

[SarahSynchro]

So, what did you think Sarah?!

Boyang is my homeboy. I would’ve had him in first.

Though I’ll admit I smirked when I saw his PCS was insanely higher than Elladj’s ... obviously Boyang is a tech king and has improved so much PCS wise over the last two years, but still. I know how it goes, the higher you are in the overall results, the higher the PCS.

 

[karne]

Boyang is my homeboy. I would’ve had him in first.

Thing I’ll admit I smirked when I saw his PCS was insanely higher than Elladj’s ... obviously Boyang is a tech king and has improved so much PCS wise over the last two years, but still. I know how it goes, the higher you are in the overall results, the higher the PCS.

topic: I believe I missed a rather important thread hijack earlier! Congratulations! I shall have to put in some work to make sure you end up with a Maxdaughter or an Aussiedaughter!

 

[beki]

Boyang is my homeboy. I would’ve had him in first.

Though I’ll admit I smirked when I saw his PCS was insanely higher than Elladj’s ... obviously Boyang is a tech king and has improved so much PCS wise over the last two years, but still. I know how it goes, the higher you are in the overall results, the higher the PCS.

I was thinking while I watching Elladj that the system isn't built to reward him. There's an ingredient there it doesn't measure. Magic? Formerly known as artistry? I often think of PCS more as a hybrid technical SS/strategic program/reputation mark than an "artistic" mark.

 

[SarahSynchro]

topic: I believe I missed a rather important thread hijack earlier! Congratulations! I shall have to put in some work to make sure you end up with a Maxdaughter or an Aussiedaughter!

Why thank you! We'll all have to work in tandem around here to ensure the newdaughter has some more diverse taste for her favourites, in comparison to her big sister. It can be a decade long study, I can never have too much assistance!

Knowing my luck though, this one will want to play hockey or be on a competitive cheerleading team.

 

[SarahSynchro]

I was thinking while I watching Elladj that the system isn't built to reward him. There's an ingredient there it doesn't measure. Magic? Formerly known as artistry? I often think of PCS more as a hybrid technical SS/strategic program/reputation mark than an "artistic" mark.

I know right? It’s such a shame. That man has artistry that the majority cannot replicate, regardless of their superior technical arsenal with multiple quads.