2018 Junior World Championships Ladies FS

[Ares]

This has been asked many times, but it's so baffling that it should be asked yet again...why are skaters like Konstantinova and Emmy Ma competing at this event when their federations have better junior skaters that they could send?

Well Konstantinova finished 3rd at Junior Nationals, current USA Junior Champion is too young to compete, Starr Andrews opted out etc.

 

[moriel]

Were you really unable to figure out that Alena had a very good skate without comparing her to Aliev? I think that behind a comparison like that is really an intent to find the guy weaker than a 13 year old girl. Because if you had chosen to compare her FS here to Javi’s at Euros, for example, where he scored 191.73 with 2 quads and a 3F<<, you’d get quite a different picture.

Ummm I never compared Alena to Aliev.
And I didnt compare Sasha to Aliev - I just pointed out her FS placement if she skated this FS at Olympics.

And umm no, such comparison actually give us the scale of what happened. For instance, Javi at euros got 96 TES. Sasha hit 92 TES here, which means that, with the additional jumping pass, she would be probably tied with Javi in TES. Just think of it, same TES as men, quads and all. Ofc, PCs here are not comparable because Sasha doesnt have the reputation that Javi has.

 

[chuckm]

Trusova's free skate score was 153.49, which topped Evgenia's world record. With two quads in the free program, she is technically as good as Hanyu's free skate at Sochi four years ago, which also included two quad jumps.

Tara Lipinski: Quads aren’t just for the men anymore. Ladies Figure Skating is about to start their own quad revolution. History made today. Alexandra Trusova became the first to land 2 quads in women’s competition....at 13!

https://twitter.com/taralipinski/status/972546707048210432

We have seen a 13-year-old GIRL do quads. We have yet to see a WOMAN land a rotated quad in competition. Miki Ando landed quads at 14, but when she moved up to Seniors at 15, not one of the quads she attempted was ratified.

Let's see if Sasha can still do quads when she is 16. That is, if she still has movable hips by then...

As for Sasha being "technically as good as Hanyu's freeskate at Sochi four years ago", where is her triple axel?
Hanyu has a gorgeous triple axel, which is huge in the air and has fantastic ice coverage. And at 13, she doesn't have one tenth of his innate artistry and musicality.

 

[Miss Ice]

We have seen a 13-year-old GIRL do quads. We have yet to see a WOMAN land a rotated quad in competition. Miki Ando landed quads at 14, but when she moved up to Seniors at 15, not one of the quads she attempted was ratified.

Let's see if Sasha can still do quads when she is 16. That is, if she still has movable hips by then...

As for Sasha being "technically as good as Hanyu's freeskate at Sochi four years ago", where is her triple axel?
Hanyu has a gorgeous triple axel, which is huge in the air and has fantastic ice coverage. And at 13, she doesn't have one tenth of his innate artistry and musicality.

100% this. It's ridiculous that people are comparing her to Skating God. Plz.

Also, its not like men start doing quads only when they are 18+.

No, but most start learning quads when their bodies/bones already mostly matured, at 15. I believe Quad King Nathan Chen landed his first quad at 15 (or late 14 at the earliest).

 

[moriel]

100% this. It's ridiculous that people are comparing her to Skating God. Plz.



No, but most start learning quads when their bodies/bones already mostly matured, at 15. I believe Quad King Nathan Chen landed his first quad at 15 (or late 14 at the earliest).

Well, most but not all, take Stephen Gogolev for example: we have videos of him jumping quads in 2016, when he was like, 12 or 13.

Also, girls mature earlier than boys. For example, take the puberty age - for girls, its between 10 and 14, and for boys, between 12 and 16. A difference of 2 (!!!) years. Or compare the growth curves for boys and girls: https://tall.life/growth-chart-child-boys-girls/ again, we have huge difference: boys stop growing around 18-20, while girls stop growing around 15-17.
"but most start learning quads when their bodies/bones already mostly matured, at 15" you say. First, the boy's bones and body are NOT anywhere neat matured around 15. And second, if this growth stage is acceptable for boys to train a quad, the same maturity stage of bones and body is achieved by girls way earlier. A couple of years earlier.

 

[Tulipstar]

I think Trusova is the youngest junior world champion ever? She definitely is the youngest junior world champion with the current age limits in place.


And not just the quads - Her triple jump content alone was significantly more difficult than anything anyone else did here.

It was amazing to see!
I thought she would land her Salchow, but wasn't sure about the toe loop. But the little Tsarina did that as well. Awe-inspiring.

 

[largeman]

And umm no, such comparison actually give us the scale of what happened. For instance, Javi at euros got 96 TES. Sasha hit 92 TES here, which means that, with the additional jumping pass, she would be probably tied with Javi in TES. Just think of it, same TES as men, quads and all. Ofc, PCs here are not comparable because Sasha doesnt have the reputation that Javi has.

:roll5:

with the additional jumping pass and choreographic sequence, she would be probably at least 2 points higher than Javi in TES

 

[Tavi...]

Ummm I never compared Alena to Aliev.
And I didnt compare Sasha to Aliev - I just pointed out her FS placement if she skated this FS at Olympics.

And umm no, such comparison actually give us the scale of what happened. For instance, Javi at euros got 96 TES. Sasha hit 92 TES here, which means that, with the additional jumping pass, she would be probably tied with Javi in TES. Just think of it, same TES as men, quads and all. Ofc, PCs here are not comparable because Sasha doesnt have the reputation that Javi has.

I guess I think that saying she would have beaten Aliev at the Olympics implies a comparison that is not flattering to him, especially because of what you say in the next paragraph.

You said that if someone with “one extra jumping pass and automatically higher PCS” scores less than someone like Trusova, that means the other skater had a “meh” performance. But would you say that Satoko Miyahara and Kaetlyn Osmond, for example, had “meh” FS programs at the Olympics?

I don’t want to belabor the point, but I think it’s obvious that - whether you’re a 26 year old male or a 13 year old female - if you execute similar content similarly well, you should get roughly equal TES unless one of the judging panels is nuts. But I really don’t think you can use TES alone to judge the quality of a performance. JMO.

 

[katymay]

For me it isn't just Trusova's spectacular jumps. I love that ending butterfly into the camel spin. I love her sitspins, and the canteleiver. She is a gifted athlete on another level. It is just my opinion, but I think Trusova's program today is the greatest ever skated. I think it will be many years before there is another one like it.
So much talent on display, even those girls who fell here and there. Beautiful, solid 3x3x from so many.
And ....I love the Japanese coaches, always smiling and encouraging.

 

[kiamma]

Trusova's free skate score was 153.49, which topped Evgenia's world record.

I don’t follow your comment, evgenia’s world record fs score of 160 still stands

 

[Miss Ice]

Well, most but not all, take Stephen Gogolev for example: we have videos of him jumping quads in 2016, when he was like, 12 or 13.

Also, girls mature earlier than boys. For example, take the puberty age - for girls, its between 10 and 14, and for boys, between 12 and 16. A difference of 2 (!!!) years. Or compare the growth curves for boys and girls: https://tall.life/growth-chart-child-boys-girls/ again, we have huge difference: boys stop growing around 18-20, while girls stop growing around 15-17.
"but most start learning quads when their bodies/bones already mostly matured, at 15" you say. First, the boy's bones and body are NOT anywhere neat matured around 15. And second, if this growth stage is acceptable for boys to train a quad, the same maturity stage of bones and body is achieved by girls way earlier. A couple of years earlier.

Let me rephrase my original statement. We clearly see that most girls in Russia at 13 are nowhere near an adolescent body type. Their body is of a pubescent child. Don't ask me why. Boys at 15 are usually in the middle of puberty -- they are adolescents -- and changes are already happening. They are way closer to being fully developed than a pubescent child of Trusova's type is.

Also, I am a woman, I know when puberty happens. That is why I think it's a little unnatural that there are SO many girls in Russian figure skating who look pubescent at the age of 13, 14, and even 15. For instance, I was already 167cm at 13 yo and easily passed for an 18-year-old with makeup. Kind of like Anna Pogo, actually (and I'm of the same nationality, haha). In contrast, the bodies of the girls in this "new Eteri generation" are so underdeveloped at 13 that there is no way I would ever give them any age above 12-13 no matter what they are wearing. This is a little unnerving.

 

[frallik]

Trusova was just sensational. WOW. I'm just going to enjoy the history that was made without worrying about 2022 or even 2019. As for comparing her scores to the men, I think it is highly appropriate to compare her scores to the men. This isn't even close to comparing Serena Williams to men tennis players. Skating gives you points for individual elements, so a 4sal for a woman is worth the same as a 4sal for the men. Does anyone understand what I mean? Congrats Sasha! (Also can anyone post a pic with her hair down? I'm intrigued to see just how long it is!!!)

http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1520734416/d85b2eda/20907535.jpg
http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1520734484/da7e3cf0/20907545.jpg
http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1520734548/ef0611b0/20907553.jpg
http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1520734607/800548f5/20907555.jpg
russian men love russian ladies with long lond hair

 

[LiamForeman]

Thank you frallik! I think her hair is stunning! Why the complaints I wonder???? Then again I love long hair, and even had mine down to my shoulders three years ago (it's now a buzz cut, I like extremes!)

 

[Skater Boy]

OMG! The three Russian ladies here sort of mirror the seniors the athlete - Zagitva, the perfect mix of artistry and jumps but not enough to be the athlete Medeveda and the bland solid skater Sotskova. And then the Japanese ladies with their smallish jumps and the disappointing Americans.

 

[randomfan]

OMG! The three Russian ladies here sort of mirror the seniors the athlete - Zagitva, the perfect mix of artistry and jumps but not enough to be the athlete Medeveda and the bland solid skater Sotskova. And then the Japanese ladies with their smallish jumpsand the disappointing Americans.

I think you should take another look at Mako Yamashita’s jumps.

 

[BethOnIce]

Even with regards to Alexandra Trusova’s ridiculously record breaking FS, am I the only one who feels like Mako Yamashita, You Young, Eunsoo Lim, and Rika Kihira still show the most promise for the senior circuit? Alexandra is competing with a drastically different body type from most of the other girls, and while what she did was astonishing, it can’t help remind me of Miki Ando. She’s now showcased these incredibly difficult jumps that people will expect her to do as she grows older, disregarding that her body will change with puberty and her jumps along with it. Miki Ando spent so much of her Senior career trying to land her 4Sal again much to her own detriment. I wouldn’t be surprised if Sasha gets stuck in a similar predicament and winds up trying to regain her jumps while sacrificing perfecting the other elements of her skating. Only time will tell, I guess.

Mako still has huge jumps, and you can already see that her body has become more adult like.

If I had to pick one skater to keep my eye on, it would probably be Young You. She’s got great speed, more centered, faster spins (although the change of leg sometimes throws her off), nice flexibility and extension, and still has nice height in her jumps (but could use improvement in her body position in air). But most importantly, she’s still only 13 with better PCS than some of her older peers, but most importantly she is hitting/has hit puberty younger than Alexandra and even other older Junior skaters. She’s adjusted to her taller body quite well so far, and she will have even more time to adjust by the time she hits Seniors. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

 

[Shayuki]

Even with regards to Alexandra Trusova’s ridiculously record breaking FS, am I the only one who feels like Mako Yamashita, You Young, Eunsoo Lim, and Rika Kihira still show the most promise for the senior circuit? Alexandra is competing with a drastically different body type from most of the other girls, and while what she did was astonishing, it can’t help remind me of Miki Ando. She’s now showcased these incredibly difficult jumps that people will expect her to do as she grows older, disregarding that her body will change with puberty and her jumps along with it. Miki Ando spent so much of her Senior career trying to land her 4Sal again much to her own detriment. I wouldn’t be surprised if Sasha gets stuck in a similar predicament and winds up trying to regain her jumps while sacrificing perfecting the other elements of her skating. Only time will tell, I guess.

Mako still has huge jumps, and you can already see that her body has become more adult like.

If I had to pick one skater to keep my eye on, it would probably be Young You. She’s got great speed, more centered, faster spins (although the change of leg sometimes throws her off), and still has nice height. But most importantly, she’s still only 13 with better PCS than some of her older peers, but most importantly she is hitting/has hit puberty younger than Alexandra and even other older Junior skaters. She’s adjusted to her taller body quite well so far, and she will have even more time to adjust by the time she hits Seniors. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Miki Ando when she was 21 years old: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3o9J3UdBF8
It's just as underrotated as her usual 4Salchows. It's not like she lost the jump. She just never had it. When you UR the jumps by that much like a clockwork, it just is difficult to not fall.

Young can have great speed - That's pretty easy while performing no transitions or difficult steps. Just about every skater can have great speed skating a program like hers. Compare Kostornaia's program during her short program for instance - I seriously doubt Young could even perform her entries to the triple jumps without losing serious speed, let alone with such quality. Young has huge underrotation issues and puberty isn't about how tall you are. Young has slow rotation speed already, UR issues already and unless she fixes her jumps she will not even be able to land triples with a new body type after puberty. Trusova might not land quads(We don't know) but she has tons of room to spare when it comes to the triple jumps. Usually with puberty you lose rotation speed, not height(You gain height). And Trusova rotates about 1 revolution per second slower for her triple jumps than she would be able to.

Jotting this You Young hype to things I'm not going to understand. At least Eunsoo Lim has jumps with some hope.

 

[xeyra]

:roll5:

with the additional jumping pass and choreographic sequence, she would be probably at least 2 points higher than Javi in TES

Then again, she'd likely not have the stamina for one more jumping pass and choreo sequence, given she was going on fumes by the end.

 

[Tavi...]

:roll5:

with the additional jumping pass and choreographic sequence, she would be probably at least 2 points higher than Javi in TES

I think you’re forgetting that Trusova skated absolutely clean and Javi lost a minimum of 6 points due to jump errors (excluding his popped 4S, bc my point was to compare programs with 2 quads). And as to total score, Javi’s PCS isn’t higher than hers solely due to reputation - his presentation is also better than hers (not surprisingly, since she’s a 13 year old newbie). I’m not trying to diminish her achievement, but you have to consider everything if you’re making comparisons like this, which is why I don’t think they’re useful.

 

[Tolstoj]

Even with regards to Alexandra Trusova’s ridiculously record breaking FS, am I the only one who feels like Mako Yamashita, You Young, Eunsoo Lim, and Rika Kihira still show the most promise for the senior circuit? Alexandra is competing with a drastically different body type from most of the other girls, and while what she did was astonishing, it can’t help remind me of Miki Ando. She’s now showcased these incredibly difficult jumps that people will expect her to do as she grows older, disregarding that her body will change with puberty and her jumps along with it. Miki Ando spent so much of her Senior career trying to land her 4Sal again much to her own detriment. I wouldn’t be surprised if Sasha gets stuck in a similar predicament and winds up trying to regain her jumps while sacrificing perfecting the other elements of her skating. Only time will tell, I guess.

Mako still has huge jumps, and you can already see that her body has become more adult like.

If I had to pick one skater to keep my eye on, it would probably be Young You. She’s got great speed, more centered, faster spins (although the change of leg sometimes throws her off), nice flexibility and extension, and still has nice height in her jumps (but could use improvement in her body position in air). But most importantly, she’s still only 13 with better PCS than some of her older peers, but most importantly she is hitting/has hit puberty younger than Alexandra and even other older Junior skaters. She’s adjusted to her taller body quite well so far, and she will have even more time to adjust by the time she hits Seniors. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Kinda agree with this, but not on who showed the most promise.

Are you serious with You? because for me among all these skaters, she's the one that will probably be lost in the shuffle because of wrong high expectations when she was just 12 (and she won nationals on a field that wasn't very tough)

From what i've seen here: i like how she shows her personality in these programs but she doesn't have great speed, she's way slower than Kostornaya (who looked the fastest yesterday) for instance, she tends to lose levels on the spins, and most importantly her body changed already so her landings are scratchy, some of the jumps are URed most of the times. Ghislain Briand already left her so Brian Orser won't take her, they have already lost interest on her. (a little odd i've to say).

I'd bet more on Kostornaya: as long as they don't force her to jump 3As, her skating is already top notch. Mako Yamashita also is very promising, and among the koreans Eun soo Lim is the strongest.

Rika Kihira is sooo inconsistent, i've seen a clean free skate from her like once in two years.