2018 Junior World Championships Ladies FS

[kimi492]

^Wow @ the above conversations - apparently it’s okay to completely write off a 13 year old (You) because no one can apparently ever improve. I guess we should just put the cut off at 13 right? Because if you aren’t the best figure skater in the world by then you should give up? Does anyone listen to themselves on here?

 

[Tolstoj]

^Wow @ the above conversations - apparently it’s okay to completely write off a 13 year old because no one can apparently ever improve. I guess we should just put the cut off at 13 right? Because if you aren’t the best figure skater in the world by then you should give up? Does anyone listen to themselves on here?

Of course she can improve.

My fear is that approaching quads on a consistent basis becomes very risky, i don't want to see her injured before she even steps up in seniors.

 

[kimi492]

Of course she can improve.

My fear is that approaching quads on a consistent basis becomes very risky, i don't want to see her injured before she even steps up in seniors.

Not talking about Trusova at all - the conversation around Young You is ridiculous

 

[Tolstoj]

Not talking about Trusova at all - the conversation around Young You is ridiculous

Yes she can improve but the point i brought here is that she looked clearly behind the other top skaters on mostly everything (speed, jumps, transitions, skating skills, and levels on the spins), and the fact that Briand is no longer her coach is concerning.

Like last year it was all about "Next Yuna!! She trains 6 hours everyday, she is practicing 4s, and she is now working in Canada as Yuna did, she can beat the russians..." and now it seems already all gone because puberty i guess? or because she didn't win all these competitions all these people expected to see her winning.

I don't like how they almost used her.

 

[kimi492]

Yes she can improve but the point i brought here is that she looked clearly behind the other top skaters on mostly everything, and the fact that Briand is no longer her coach is concerning.

Like last year it was all about "Next Yuna!! She trains 10 hours everyday, she is already practicing 4s, and she is now working in Canada as Yuna did, she can beat the russians..." and now it seems already all gone because puberty i guess? or because she didn't win all these competitions everyone expected to see her winning.

I don't like how they almost used her.

We have no idea of knowing why Ghisland and You stopped working together - to say they lost interest implies something else entirely. My point is if other people find her promising or like her skating (I think she’s joyful on the ice and fun to watch myself) that’s fine there’s no need to contradict their opinions - but for another poster to say there’s no hope for her jumps - that’s ridiculous you have absolutely no way of knowing that and it comes across as hateful.

 

[Tolstoj]

We have no idea of knowing why Ghisland and You stopped working together - to say they lost interest implies something else entirely. My point is if other people find her promising or like her that’s fine there’s no need to contradict their opinions - but for another poster to say there’s no hope for her jumps - that’s ridiculous you have absolutely no way of knowing that and it comes across as hateful.

That's just my opinion (just like he/she said that Trusova could end up having problems because of these quads), we'll see, i could be wrong.

 

[Kara]

I think the deal with Cricket club was only for the summer based off her farewell post on her instagram so I don't think Ghislain left her so much as she had to leave him for some reasons I'm not sure and that I'm sad about. Though wouldn't be surprised with KSU just not being good at these kinds of things or not wanting to spend money on them rip.:noshake: Eunsoo has continually proven herself so I'm hoping she gets a chance to train abroad!

 

[Shayuki]

^Wow @ the above conversations - apparently it’s okay to completely write off a 13 year old (You) because no one can apparently ever improve. I guess we should just put the cut off at 13 right? Because if you aren’t the best figure skater in the world by then you should give up? Does anyone listen to themselves on here?

It was about her "showing the most promise". It's just not true - She's the least promising of the "top" contenders here, by what she's putting out on the ice. And the lack of attention paid to her UR issues during over 2 full years of actually "having" triples is also very concerning. What you're doing is a strawman argument, how about arguing the actual point("Young showed the most promise") and back that up with logical argumentation. What aspects of her actually show "the most promise"?

By the way, using a word like "most" automatically makes it also about Trusova as well, it's impossible to use a word like that without including everyone else.


The current reality is that she's a low PCS skater with weak spins and UR issues, along with scratchy landings and poor aerial rotation technique. That's what she puts out on the ice. That's what she gets scored as.

but for another poster to say there’s no hope for her jumps - that’s ridiculous you have absolutely no way of knowing that and it comes across as hateful.

Well, there's hope if she fixes her jumps. But in the current state, there really isn't. She underrotates almost every triple and her aerial rotation method gives her scratchy landings almost like clockwork. So it's based on a conditional - "If she fixes her jumps" - And to me that's always more of a stretch than simply assuming that she will not be able to fix them. Especially considering she's had over 2 years since the issues really started surfacing(Nationals victory, though it's of course very likely she had such issues even earlier).

You are not the arbiter of figure skating - if they see promise in her that’s their opinion regardless of what you might think.
And I don’t want any 13 year olds written off - just like You I don’t want people criticizing her for events that have not occurred (losing her quads) - we simply don’t know what will happen to them in the future

It's not about seeing promise in her, it's about seeing "the most" promise in her, which in fact makes it not about only her anymore but about every single other skater as well. Such as, yes, Trusova or Kostornaia. And arguing about the reason for why Young would show more promise than Trusova is definitely relevant. I don't agree that it's impossible to predict the skaters' futures to a reasonable extent.

 

[kimi492]

It was about her "showing the most promise". It's just not true - She's the least promising of the "top" contenders here, by what she's putting out on the ice. And the lack of attention paid to her UR issues during over 2 full years of actually "having" triples is also very concerning. What you're doing is a strawman argument, how about arguing the actual point("Young showed the most promise") and back that up with logical argumentation. What aspects of her actually show "the most promise"?

By the way, using a word like "most" automatically makes it also about Trusova as well, it's impossible to use a word like that without including everyone else.


The current reality is that she's a low PCS skater with weak spins and UR issues, along with scratchy landings and poor aerial rotation technique. That's what she puts out on the ice. That's what she gets scored as.

You are not the arbiter of figure skating - if they see promise in her that’s their opinion regardless of what you might think.
And I don’t want any 13 year olds written off - just like Young You I don’t want people criticizing Trusova for events that have not occurred (losing her quads) - we simply don’t know what will happen to them in the future.
And again, you may have clarified it above, but you originally said there’s no hope for her which is why I included you at all. I have no interest in going back and forth when it’s obvious you’re okay using that language toward a 13 year old. I don’t have anything else to say.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Even with regards to Alexandra Trusova’s ridiculously record breaking FS, am I the only one who feels like Mako Yamashita, You Young, Eunsoo Lim, and Rika Kihira still show the most promise for the senior circuit? Alexandra is competing with a drastically different body type from most of the other girls, and while what she did was astonishing, it can’t help remind me of Miki Ando. She’s now showcased these incredibly difficult jumps that people will expect her to do as she grows older, disregarding that her body will change with puberty and her jumps along with it. Miki Ando spent so much of her Senior career trying to land her 4Sal again much to her own detriment. I wouldn’t be surprised if Sasha gets stuck in a similar predicament and winds up trying to regain her jumps while sacrificing perfecting the other elements of her skating. Only time will tell, I guess.

Mako still has huge jumps, and you can already see that her body has become more adult like.

If I had to pick one skater to keep my eye on, it would probably be Young You. She’s got great speed, more centered, faster spins (although the change of leg sometimes throws her off), nice flexibility and extension, and still has nice height in her jumps (but could use improvement in her body position in air). But most importantly, she’s still only 13 with better PCS than some of her older peers, but most importantly she is hitting/has hit puberty younger than Alexandra and even other older Junior skaters. She’s adjusted to her taller body quite well so far, and she will have even more time to adjust by the time she hits Seniors. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

I feel like you don't like any of the Russian girls... Konstantinova (who shouldn't have been here) is post-puberty. Kostornaya is a gem and she probably won't have that much to deal with. We'll see about Trusova. But you write them all off so quickly...

It also seems like you judge everything based on jump size. If that was everything, Osmond would be winning everything. But you have to be able to skate cleanly, too.

 

[flanker]

Who does? But children can get hurt at parks, like how I broke my arm, and that was a complete accident. I don't think children are any more likely to get hurt doing sports. It could happen anywhere.

I completely agree. Don't get me wrong, but I think sometimes people are overprotective now. If I compare the way I and my friends played when we were boys, with how today are rules on everything all over me, toys, climbing frames, swings and so on, I always remember Death from Hogfather:
"IT'S A SWORD. THEY ARE MEANT TO BE DANGEROUS."
"What if she cuts herself?"
"THAT WOULD BE AN IMPORTANT LESSON."

 

[BethOnIce]

Miki Ando when she was 21 years old: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3o9J3UdBF8
It's just as underrotated as her usual 4Salchows. It's not like she lost the jump. She just never had it. When you UR the jumps by that much like a clockwork, it just is difficult to not fall.

Young can have great speed - That's pretty easy while performing no transitions or difficult steps. Just about every skater can have great speed skating a program like hers. Compare Kostornaia's program during her short program for instance - I seriously doubt Young could even perform her entries to the triple jumps without losing serious speed, let alone with such quality. Young has huge underrotation issues and puberty isn't about how tall you are. Young has slow rotation speed already, UR issues already and unless she fixes her jumps she will not even be able to land triples with a new body type after puberty. Trusova might not land quads(We don't know) but she has tons of room to spare when it comes to the triple jumps. Usually with puberty you lose rotation speed, not height(You gain height). And Trusova rotates about 1 revolution per second slower for her triple jumps than she would be able to.

Jotting this You Young hype to things I'm not going to understand. At least Eunsoo Lim has jumps with some hope.

Kinda agree with this, but not on who showed the most promise.

Are you serious with You? because for me among all these skaters, she's the one that will probably be lost in the shuffle because of wrong high expectations when she was just 12 (and she won nationals on a field that wasn't very tough)

From what i've seen here: i like how she shows her personality in these programs but she doesn't have great speed, she's way slower than Kostornaya (who looked the fastest yesterday) for instance, she tends to lose levels on the spins, and most importantly her body changed already so her landings are scratchy, some of the jumps are URed most of the times. Ghislain Briand already left her so Brian Orser won't take her, they have already lost interest on her. (a little odd i've to say).

I'd bet more on Kostornaya: as long as they don't force her to jump 3As, her skating is already top notch. Mako Yamashita also is very promising, and among the koreans Eun soo Lim is the strongest.

Rika Kihira is sooo inconsistent, i've seen a clean free skate from her like once in two years.

Perhaps I should clarify this a bit... From watching Junior Worlds, I wouldn’t pick out Young as one of the top contenders. To me, I just see a perfect storm of possible potential in her current situation. We are seeing her fight through changes in her body already, and while things still aren’t perfected, she’s managing to keep herself in the top 10 of a very competitive field. Probably most important is the fact that she is hitting puberty early. At 13, her body has matured more than a lot of the older competitors in Juniors, and certainly more than Sasha, who is the same age. While other skaters will be adjusting to their post-puberty bodies right as they hit the Senior Circuit, Young should have the advantage of possibly having two seasons under her belt of already having reworked her jumps for her developed body, allowing her to focus more on improving skating skills and artistry. It could be that she doesn’t rise to the occasion, unforeseen circumstances happen, she doesn’t have good coaching, etc. etc. But she could also have the most important combination of circumstances and grit to really rise - time to adjust and perfect her skating in a matured body seasons before hitting seniors than many of her peers and without the pressure other skaters are facing (repeating difficult jumps done as juniors as an adult like Rika, insane expectations as a prodigy while demanding jumps take a toll on the body years before hitting seniors like Sasha, seeming to be the top skater from her country like Eunsoo). All this aside, I also have a tendency to root for the underdog

 

[BossT]

Alena KOSTORNAIA - EX Gala, JWC 2018
https://youtu.be/rZpffBWnoro
Alexandra TRUSOVA - EX Gala, JWC 2018
https://youtu.be/kh5Cz206HJQ
Alexandra TRUSOVA - 4T + Chic Cantilever!! EX Gala, JWC 2018
https://youtu.be/YLCXdW7nWCE

 

[slider11]

Let me rephrase my original statement. We clearly see that most girls in Russia at 13 are nowhere near an adolescent body type. Their body is of a pubescent child. Don't ask me why. Boys at 15 are usually in the middle of puberty -- they are adolescents -- and changes are already happening. They are way closer to being fully developed than a pubescent child of Trusova's type is.

Also, I am a woman, I know when puberty happens. That is why I think it's a little unnatural that there are SO many girls in Russian figure skating who look pubescent at the age of 13, 14, and even 15. For instance, I was already 167cm at 13 yo and easily passed for an 18-year-old with makeup. Kind of like Anna Pogo, actually (and I'm of the same nationality, haha). In contrast, the bodies of the girls in this "new Eteri generation" are so underdeveloped at 13 that there is no way I would ever give them any age above 12-13 no matter what they are wearing. This is a little unnerving.

Look at Oksana Bauil. When she won the Olympics she was what - 17/18?- and was very very thin and had a young girl's physique. After a couple years in the US she gained some weight and her body took on a totally different shape - not in a bad way; just the body of a young woman. Well, we all know her problems. Alot of them may have been emotional but I think her body change which changed her ability to jump was a factor. My point is that these "Russian babies" at 13-14-15 have a body type that may have been influenced by years of rigorous athletic training and perhaps a "special" diet. I'm not saying they were starved, just very cautious in their eating habits. So at 16 and with the natural hormones, the body take over and despite the rigor, sometimes rebels and morphs into a woman's body interrupting the past successes of these fantastic jumps. As examples, Julia Lipnitskya and Elizaveta Tuk. We'll see. Evgenia seems to have handled puberty fairly well. Maybe Eteri has figured out that transition.

 

[friedbanana]

Junior ladies are terrifying!!

 

[Grin]

I feel like you don't like any of the Russian girls... Konstantinova (who shouldn't have been here) is post-puberty. Kostornaya is a gem and she probably won't have that much to deal with. We'll see about Trusova. But you write them all off so quickly...

It also seems like you judge everything based on jump size. If that was everything, Osmond would be winning everything. But you have to be able to skate cleanly, too.

How could you forget about Polina? :disapp:

 

[Spirals for Miles]

because she doesn't prove my point because she does skate cleanly most of the time
just not recently....

 

[tars]

I think Eunsoo and Yelim are more promissing than Young You.
I thought the same two years ago, btw.

 

[colormyworld240]

Let me rephrase my original statement. We clearly see that most girls in Russia at 13 are nowhere near an adolescent body type. Their body is of a pubescent child. Don't ask me why. Boys at 15 are usually in the middle of puberty -- they are adolescents -- and changes are already happening. They are way closer to being fully developed than a pubescent child of Trusova's type is.

Also, I am a woman, I know when puberty happens. That is why I think it's a little unnatural that there are SO many girls in Russian figure skating who look pubescent at the age of 13, 14, and even 15. For instance, I was already 167cm at 13 yo and easily passed for an 18-year-old with makeup. Kind of like Anna Pogo, actually (and I'm of the same nationality, haha). In contrast, the bodies of the girls in this "new Eteri generation" are so underdeveloped at 13 that there is no way I would ever give them any age above 12-13 no matter what they are wearing. This is a little unnerving.

Genetics play a big role in when one goes through puberty. Maybe for Russians it's just later? It's the case for many Asian women as well, and I kind of experienced that. But also diet has a huge impact as well. I find in American and Canada, girls go through puberty earlier than in Europe; our foods have a lot of hormones and also the types of foods we ingest in our part of the world, which may result in that as well. It's hard to tell. Of course there are those in Russia that go through puberty earlier as well, like Daria Panenkova, Polina Tsurskaya, etc.

 

[colormyworld240]

Ho snap @ Trusova. Youngest competitor and she does THAT. Simply amazing and who cares about if she can keep it up as she grows, what she did yesterday was legendary!

Rika - I'm emo
YY - emo
Yuhana - Glad she proved people wrong!! Happy for her
Eunsoo - Ahh my precious Eunsoo.<3 Eunsoo and jumping close to the boards, name a more iconic duo.

Korea ladies only 2 spots for next year - Im emo.

More iconic duo: Gracie running into boards, Aliev running into boards, Kostornaia almost running into boards. This seems like a common problem