2018 Olympic Figure Skating Free Dance

[Anyasnake]

Competition is done and pettiness never stops

For those who claims that a team can do the other team's FD and vice-versa : What are you talking about ? :disapp:

Sometimes people make it look too easy, we forget that they started working on programs since Last May or June. Do you know how much time they spend on a chochtaw + change of edge + change of hold + double twizzle ? Ugh.

Stylistically speaking, it's also subjective and what we've been shown this year is that, there was not so much preference for a program or another, because if you look back, results depends on the performance. Hence, V/M getting lower score was because : a lot of tiny mistakes, and bobbles, sometimes dropping a whole level = 1.5 point ! P/C skated a very clean GP series and GPF and edged them out. Fine, move on people, this has nothing to do with personnal preference.
And if you're still saying that yes, because P/C have higher PCS, it's mostly thanks on Skating Skills (and translates on TR). Because unlike some narrative where T&S are untouchable on SS, when you have a glide like that and a blade working like P/C do, you do get all the points and rightfully so. The only subjective PCS you have is Composition and it's often pretty tied (except at GPF, but MR was reworked and it paid off, right ?).

I agree about the comments on Sara and Kirill. They skate so well, and she is just better than ever. It looked like they improved drastically after Nationals, perhaps after having the pressure of the qualification off ?
They are 12 here, and I'd seriously send them to Worlds now..

 

[NoNameFace]

Ironically it's the first program by Chock and Bates that I have become a fan of (ironically because i hate this song in my guts). To think Olympic bronze was within their reach :sad21:
My mother also liked them best of all the American teams.

I had in mind to write some thoughts about Chock/Bates and Hubbell/Donohue yesterday, but I am dead on my feet after last week's nigh watching and this week marathon...

For me, 'Imagine' FD is also their best, most effective FD in my opinion that gets to me beyond sole visual of skating produced. It has an incredible balance for me between fluidity and powerfulness, one of the best lifts from entire field and Madison's presence, who really shines as a jewel, showing great sensibility in expression and affectionate attitude towards Evan/performance in general without being over-the-top or vivacious like we often see (and that comes from someone who few seasons ago was not a fan of any Madison's expression - I consider her the most expressive and versatile ID female partner on par with Tessa Virtue). The program is very light, with that misty feel about it, the way steps flows along the music; it has an incredible charm to mesmerize people and universal appeal. I was gutted for the when the freaky fall happened out of sudden, Madison's tears after finishing broke my heart...Saying that, I kind of sensed that they approached content and choreography a bit too cautious, timid this time around - maybe nerves, maybe they just wanted it too much, maybe it was a flash of lost focus, but it looked painful and disturbed them for good...Still, kudos and biggest respect from me about keeping the performance to the very end. I feel that it just was not meant to be, similarly to WeaPo - too many issues that did not give them 'stability' in focusing on competition, improving material, instead they had to deal with injuries, execution problems, WeaPo with FD change an so on. The program was there, a solid vehicle, but the momentum created for it was not - I really hope they will come to Milan with renewed purpose and energy, I want to see that shine by myself!

As for Hubbell/Donohue...I'm gutted too, because the pressure of the event and their newly acquired US Champions status got to their heads in the worst way it seems. While SD was well-executed (but lacked some spark for me, comparing to other outings) and got them into 3rd, FD told the story, again...Seeing it unravelling before our eyes it really showed mentality strength, confidence and belief competition-wise Shibutanis have (and they had none of that 3 seasons ago) - at the end of the day, it was not about abilities, titles, hype or who's got better program, it was more about upping your own game regarding material and Madison and Zach failed to do that. I think that their best performances of these programs were at...Skate Canada, yes their first GP. Somehow I feel that they were the most genuine, driven and authentic in their material there, with rawness and emotion that slowly escaped from my perception as they went deeper in the season. Yes, I get they wanted to polish stuff, making it more 'elegant' and sophisticated, conform more to the picture anticipated from them, especially regarding this FD which is in my favourite 5 FDs this season, but somehow for me it was too much 'tweaking' done in between outings that lost this edge I saw initially. Maybe I saw things, but the second part of their FD looked very re-worked, for the worse in my opinion, unfortunately - it was too forced out of sudden and they were very nervous and tight, there was no flow as usually. This is a third situation like that, being on the verge of medal and failing to clench it (last Worlds FD implode on twizzles, GPF lift and now this) - it has to be somehow addressed, because it pains me to see them not being able to execute victory to its fullest...And looking at PCS, judges were so ready to give it to them, which makes things even more frustrating.

 

[Lester]

For me, 'Imagine' FD is also their best, most effective FD in my opinion that gets to me beyond sole visual of skating produced. It has an incredible balance for me between fluidity and powerfulness, one of the best lifts from entire field and Madison's presence, who really shines as a jewel, showing great sensibility in expression and affectionate attitude towards Evan/performance in general without being over-the-top or vivacious like we often see (and that comes from someone who few seasons ago was not a fan of any Madison's expression - I consider her the most expressive and versatile ID female partner on par with Tessa Virtue). The program is very light, with that misty feel about it, the way steps flows along the music; it has an incredible charm to mesmerize people and universal appeal.

What a nice description. Yeah, she really is a jewel. I am not sure about being the most expressive and versatile, the current field is full of great ladies, but she is certainly captivating to watch, sometimes to the extent that I forget Evan is there DD

I am not sure about H/D. Since their move to Gadbois, their marks have risen and everyone seems super enthusiastic about them but apart from perhaps better edges/flow, I don't really see much growth from them. I feel like they keep redoing the same program year after year. Perhaps they have had the best music choice in recent memory this year, I don't know. Not that they are not great ice dancers, but come on with these PCS. Was their free really that much better than the Shibs, W/P, C/L, G/P? What am I missing?

 

[andromache]

So I was personally rooting for Gabby/Guillaume, but based on the short dance and their momentum going into the individual event, it was a well-deserved win by Tessa and Scott.

But I'm so darn sick of seeing headlines about how people want Tessa and Scott to make babies. Omg. Shut up! I wish Gabby and Guillaume would've won just so we'd get fewer headlines about how Tessa and Scott should be sexual partners.

 

[1795]

Wow, I guess millions of people, including myself, who enjoyed and were moved by V/M's performance have no taste.

Look, I get we all have skaters that we love and that we don't prefer but this just sounds like bitterness and sour grapes over a team that you don't like. Isn't artistry subjective in the first place? I don't find V/M contrived or over-dramatic at all. What I see is versatility to work with different genres and musicality. They are able to play roles with perfection, and possess an intimacy that captures the audience (and also many teams strive to emulate). Even though I don't agree with your description of P/C's artistry, I myself understand that it's subjective.

Lol I'm salty but over the podium standings - all performed well so spare me that convo because this is my overarching opinion of V/M post-Mahler.
Literally Tessa epitomizes "white girl tryna dance latin/hiphop" (images of their contemporary break-down in carmen is burned in my mind lol) and Scott's attitude is offensive to me almost on a personal level.
I never said you had no taste.
I guess one shouldn't go to figure skating for tastefulness in general - costumes, music choice, etc.

So to me V/M are polarizing in a challenging way - hate to love their skills but love to hate their flaws.

V/M can do classical ballet very well. Have you seen their Valse Triste program? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzpD15nx348&t=162s It is one of my favs. If you give V/M Moonlight Sonata, they will perform the heck out of it as well. On the other hand, I do not think P/C can perform the heck out of Moulin Rouge. Their short program proved to me their lack of versatility. P/C have amazing flow in their edges, but it's not that much superior than Tessa and Scott's skating skills. Another brilliant aspect of VM's skating is the way Scott presents Tessa and vice versa. She takes care of him just as much as he takes care of her....It's like they both equally project their bodies to each other on ice. P/C are brilliant skaters, but they lack charisma.

I also think Cizeron shows too much bare chest for my liking, lol.....

I love Valse Triste and yes its a very young V/M when that was performed but ..........child's play compared to programs that P/C done since their rise. I understand your parallel because that program (musically) and aesthetically are on a similar wavelength.
I think Scott presents Tessa well but not the other way around - I think that's just Scott taking over when he's the highlight. When I see P/C dance - I see bodies impeccably creating shapes and phrases....which I think defines contemporary dance.

To me, moulin rouge program was a literal and expected interpretation where as moonlight sonata was new and sublime and exposed.
V/M relied on narrative and conventional pathos while P/C highlighted and exposed movement and nuance.

 

[peepsquick]

V/M can do classical ballet very well. Have you seen their Valse Triste program? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzpD15nx348&t=162s It is one of my favs. If you give V/M Moonlight Sonata, they will perform the heck out of it as well. On the other hand, I do not think P/C can perform the heck out of Moulin Rouge. Their short program proved to me their lack of versatility. P/C have amazing flow in their edges, but it's not that much superior than Tessa and Scott's skating skills. Another brilliant aspect of VM's skating is the way Scott presents Tessa and vice versa. She takes care of him just as much as he takes care of her....It's like they both equally project their bodies to each other on ice. P/C are brilliant skaters, but they lack charisma.


I also think Cizeron shows too much bare chest for my liking, lol.....

Sorry, Topaz Emerald, not true! If you listen to Marie-France, she says it clearly, nobody can match them in this style! The rest is a matter of preferring a style to another. I can see the quality of V/M 's skating but to me they don't make the most of the medium ice. It looks choppier and heavier when they skate. They are fiery but in a very "showbiz" type of way. I can appreciate the showmanship but that's it. P/C's SDs, contrary to what some people like to repeat, show versatility and originality. I don't either buy into the
sexing-up of ice dance ... it makes it look same old, same old! I am happy for V/M to finish their career in a spectacular way but I'm looking forward to what comes next!

 

[Tigerlily87]

More like Gordeeva/Grinkov(art) vs Mishkutionok/Dmitriev (passion) with the placements reversed.

Yes, indeed. Good comparison

 

[ChanClan]

You know, sometimes I really don't understand y'all. Who you find better is really a matter of what YOU like. Personally, I like VM more but that doesn't mean I don't think PC are good. I don't like their programs nor do I feel anything when I watch them them (except for Build a Home because that was amazing) and the opposite is true for a lot of you. That doesn't mean I'm wrong, nor does it mean you are. It's your opinion. It's what you find interesting. Both are extremely good at what they do, both deserved gold. Unfortunately PC had an some unfortunate bad luck in the SD but that doesn't necessarily mean they would have won if they hadn't had a costume malfunction. Yes, their chances would have definitely be better but in the end it is an unknown. Silver at the Olympics is still an amazing feat so can we please stop trying to tear the other down in order to prop up our faves? Just be happy for all they've accomplished and look forward to what is to happen in the future.

 

[ChanClan]

^^ https://media3.giphy.com/media/ADr35Z4TvATIc/giphy.gif

 

[ahuttestock]

We'll never know

But we know that if there were no problem with a dres during short program , french would have won. Even Canadians admitt it on their fansites

 

[ChanClan]

But we know that if there were no problem with a dres during short program , french would have won. Even Canadians admitt it on their fansites

Except we don't. Who's to say that they wouldn't have made a mistake if there hadn't been an issue with the dress? Obviously they'd have had a much better chance at winning had there not been the dress issue but to say that they would have 100% won is kind of inaccurate. We can speculate and claim that had there not been a dress issue PC would have won, but that doesn't change the fact that it didn't happen and we will never know if it would have happened had there not been a dress issue.

 

[ahuttestock]

Except we don't. Who's to say that they wouldn't have made a mistake if there hadn't been an issue with the dress? Obviously they'd have had a much better chance at winning had there not been the dress issue but to say that they would have 100% won is kind of inaccurate. We can speculate and claim that had there not been a dress issue PC would have won, but that doesn't change the fact that it didn't happen and we will never know if it would have happened had there not been a dress issue.

Ok, 99 % . I dont think she could spoil a lift if not that dress, dont you think? Whole season they got +3 for it. Looking at their perfect executed first two elements I doubt that she would screw up the lift which they cannot have problem with whole season. There is also second step seq which were almost always ( 3 or 4 competition during season ) l4 and better GOE . They had no bigger problems with that also before. and given the fact that NonT caused more issues during season andd here in korea they were executed perfectly I have reasonable doubts that they wouldnt spoil the same as much with that stupid dress. And they lost only 0.72? Please, gimme a break. They had that gold before olympics, they had only to deliver decent performances, unfortunately the bad luck or wishes canadians were heard

 

[ChanClan]

Ok, 99 % . I dont think she could spoil a lift if not that dress, dont you think? Whole season they got +3 for it. Looking at their perfect executed first two elements I doubt that she would screw up the lift which they cannot have problem with whole season. There is also second step seq which were almost always ( 3 or 4 competition during season ) l4 and better GOE . They had no bigger problems with that also before. and given the fact that NonT caused more issues during season andd here in korea they were executed perfectly I have reasonable doubts that they wouldnt spoil the same as much with that stupid dress. And they lost only 0.72? Please, gimme a break. They had that gold before olympics, they had only to deliver decent performances, unfortunately the bad luck or wishes canadians were heard

Well I guess we'll have to disagree. Nothing is ever guaranteed (or at least it shouldn't be) and ice is slippery. I'm sorry for them that they had the costume malfunction and they handled it like the champs they are but the score they got was too high for the performance they gave imo. So them only losing by 0.72 points seems like quite the gift to me. Silver is still quite an accomplishment and considering where everyone else is at right now, they are almost guaranteed the gold in 2022 so look forward to that and I suggest stopping with the should, coulda, woulda speculations that we will never know to be true.

 

[Tigerlily87]

http://fs-gossips.com/tatiana-tarasova-im-terribly-sorry-that-you-can-not-give-two-gold-medals/
The great Tatiana Tarasova was incredibly complimentary of both pairs. I’m a little surprise d

 

[ahuttestock]

Well I guess we'll have to disagree. Nothing is ever guaranteed (or at least it shouldn't be) and ice is slippery. I'm sorry for them that they had the costume malfunction and they handled it like the champs they are but the score they got was too high for the performance they gave imo. So them only losing by 0.72 points seems like quite the gift to me. Silver is still quite an accomplishment and considering where everyone else is at right now, they are almost guaranteed the gold in 2022 so look forward to that and I suggest stopping with the should, coulda, woulda speculations that we will never know to be true.

You talk like that because you have no arguments and what else can you say? You know deep in your heart that I say the truth. Like many canadians on fansities. You are relieved SUCH THING HAPPENED Easy to say "Nothing is ever guaranteed" , "We dont know what would happen".blsblabla That empty talk. Consedering the protociol and the PERFECT GOE French were given on rumba pattern and NnT and how many +2s Canadians received overall with "perfect" program is impossible not to think like me.That TES would be equal (canadians were not perfect, ideal at all. which obiously higher PCS
.No to mention a PCS , look at there difference in FD in pcs- quite big. It would be the same in short consedering the pcs they received through the season.
And your bubbling about "ovescoring" program works in favour of french. And thats thing you hate about the most -It is proof that they were judges favourities. Because even with such mistakes they got higher PCS so if they were 95% clean they would be given much higher score and PCS. You know that And thats make you mad. So you say on those fansities thay you re happy that the dress fell of. Thats rude

 

[jfdw]

You talk like that because you have no arguments and what else can you say? You know deep in your heart that I say the truth. Like many canadians on fansities. You are relieved SUCH THING HAPPENED Easy to say "Nothing is ever guaranteed" , "We dont know what would happen".blsblabla That empty talk. Consedering the protociol and the PERFECT GOE French were given on rumba pattern and NnT and how many +2s Canadians received overall with "perfect" program is impossible not to think like me.That TES would be equal (canadians were not perfect, ideal at all. which obiously higher PCS
.No to mention a PCS , look at there difference in FD in pcs- quite big. It would be the same in short consedering the pcs they received through the season.
And your bubbling about "ovescoring" program works in favour of french. And thats thing you hate about the most -It is proof that they were judges favourities. Because even with such mistakes they got higher PCS so if they were 95% clean they would be given much higher score and PCS. You know that And thats make you mad. So you say on those fansities thay you re happy that the dress fell of. Thats rude

I never understand when some people's favorites lose that they have to tear apart the winners. Yes you want your favorite to win. P/C took the loss with the grace and dignity of the champions they are. I do not think they would like to see the bitterness and hatred that is being projected here to-wards V/M. It is the judges decision and no matter how many times you go over and over if this had not happened P/C would have won. The decision is final and you cannot change it. You did not spend the month's practicing and working so hard to perfect their programs. Your skaters did. P/C are great champions and this time they did not win but they did it with grace and dignity and I think they would expect their fans to do it too Part of being a champion a true one is to enjoy the win but if you lose you do it with grace and dignity. We should be grateful that there are dancers out there like all who competed and just enjoy the beauty of their talents.

 

[Tigerlily87]

I have to say, if you haven’t watch the enhanced feed of V/Ms skate it’s worth it. MF Dubreuil is hilarious to watch

 

[ChanClan]

You talk like that because you have no arguments and what else can you say? You know deep in your heart that I say the truth. Like many canadians on fansities. You are relieved SUCH THING HAPPENED Easy to say "Nothing is ever guaranteed" , "We dont know what would happen".blsblabla That empty talk. Consedering the protociol and the PERFECT GOE French were given on rumba pattern and NnT and how many +2s Canadians received overall with "perfect" program is impossible not to think like me.That TES would be equal (canadians were not perfect, ideal at all. which obiously higher PCS
.No to mention a PCS , look at there difference in FD in pcs- quite big. It would be the same in short consedering the pcs they received through the season.
And your bubbling about "ovescoring" program works in favour of french. And thats thing you hate about the most -It is proof that they were judges favourities. Because even with such mistakes they got higher PCS so if they were 95% clean they would be given much higher score and PCS. You know that And thats make you mad. So you say on those fansities thay you re happy that the dress fell of. Thats rude

No i talk like this because it's pointless. I have my opinions, you have yours. Saying them over the internet isn't going to change them. And I'm not mad. And you are putting words in my mouth. Obviously I am happy that my favourites won but that doesn't mean I'm not heartbroken for Gabby and the unfortunate bad luck that happened to her. Those two feelings are not mutually exclusive. Saying that nothing is ever guaranteed or that we don't know what would have happened isn't empty talk, it's the truth. I'm sorry you don't see it that way.

But if you insist. VM also got perfect GOE on their no touch and no the french did not get perfect GOE on their rumba. And you can talk all you want about the amount of +2s VM got (12) compared to what PC got (12 as well) but at least they didn't get any +1s (PC got 2 +1s). Also the fact that 6 judges gave PC +3s for their lift when she very clearly had a loss of balance is kind of my point about the "overscoring", it should have been a max of +2. TES should not be equal because PC got a level 3 on their PSt because she messed up her double twizzle ((I think that's why, but I could be wrong) blame it on the costume malfunction, it doesn't matter, it's what happened) so in the end their base values were lower anyways. I don't agree with the PCS but again, personal preferences, I don't think they should have gotten any 10s for the performance category (well maybe for the fact that they still performed well considering the dress malfunction but that's not the point) and clearly you do but that doesn't mean either of us is wrong. It's a personal preference and there's not much either of us can do about that. I don't have any problems with the FD scores, if you think I do, you've misinterpreted my responses. I do not like PCs FD but that doesn't mean I don't understand that they have qualities about their skating that others do not, I just happen to not like their style. But should point out that the PCS in both the SD and FD were not "quite big" like you suggest. VM SD was 39.14, PC SD was 39.22. So .08 difference. Not that big. VM FD was 59.05, PC FD was 59.37. So .32 difference. If you think that's a big difference, that's your beef, but looking at the other top teams, PCS are around 54-56 so I don't think .32 is a big point difference but whatever.

[edit] I read this again, "No to mention a PCS , look at there difference in FD in pcs- quite big. It would be the same in short consedering the pcs they received through the season." and thought I should say something about this. The highest pcs PC received this year was 39.14 at GPF (which is what VM got here). Considering they got 39.22 for a performance that was not as good as GPF... this is what I also mean by "overscoring". So what exactly do you think they would have gotten PCS wise in the SD without the mishap? perfect? maybe but again... we will never know.

 

[ahuttestock]

I never understand when some people's favorites lose that they have to tear apart the winners. Yes you want your favorite to win. P/C took the loss with the grace and dignity of the champions they are. I do not think they would like to see the bitterness and hatred that is being projected here to-wards V/M. It is the judges decision and no matter how many times you go over and over if this had not happened P/C would have won. The decision is final and you cannot change it. You did not spend the month's practicing and working so hard to perfect their programs. Your skaters did. P/C are great champions and this time they did not win but they did it with grace and dignity and I think they would expect their fans to do it too Part of being a champion a true one is to enjoy the win but if you lose you do it with grace and dignity. We should be grateful that there are dancers out there like all who competed and just enjoy the beauty of their talents.

This is not a matter of favouritism actually.I wanna justice and politie behaviour. And Tessa and Scott dont help, they are very full of themselves in interviews. They never calmed them down , asked to not post such rude messages. Scott very often speaks like them , in the same note. Answer my question- you know what would happen if Tessa and Scott lost like that? Do you? Ther fandom is very aggresive, annoyin and rude. So dont blame me , because I cannot look at WHAT that fanbase talk about P/C .They were even hating on them 2 seasons when V/M were off, last season of course, anr they will be when V/M retire. They even stalk Eoropean Championships and they cannot stop . SO please DONT talk to me about DIGNITY. This is something that fans of tessa and scott need, not me. They couldnt stop talking abut how they lost in Sochi. So I ask you, go to twitter, instagram, blogs and ask them to "enjoy the beauty of the sport" , not spreading hate, promise me?
And Cizeron think s like me, I bet , he is a public person and cannot talk like me openly and he knows that they lost becasue of that stupid dress. It was 0.70 point. He realizes that

 

[randomsplashes]

Lol I'm salty but over the podium standings - all performed well so spare me that convo because this is my overarching opinion of V/M post-Mahler.
Literally Tessa epitomizes "white girl tryna dance latin/hiphop" (images of their contemporary break-down in carmen is burned in my mind lol) and Scott's attitude is offensive to me almost on a personal level.
I never said you had no taste.
I guess one shouldn't go to figure skating for tastefulness in general - costumes, music choice, etc.

So to me V/M are polarizing in a challenging way - hate to love their skills but love to hate their flaws.

I could say the same for 90% of the teams here, including the French. Latin doesn't always translate well onto the ice, especially traditional ballroom, which V/M were going for but it worked for them.

I understand it's your opinion about tastefulness in figure skating but I'd suggest you to try watching different skaters. There are many skaters out there that are just as classy and tasteful as a certain team.